Maybe he misunderstood the prophecy about the "constitution hanging from a thread" before he joined the Washington Tea Party.

BYU coed: “Is he taken?”

Why are female college students referred to as co-eds?

It's sexist AF.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2021 09:23PM by Beth.

What about "seamstress"?

I'm sorry. What?

what about 'dress'!!!!

I find return addresses to be sexist.

I find addresses sexist.

Dressers too.

If you cross the bedroom to the other dresser ...

TMI. We don't want to know what you have in your "other" dresser.

He participated in a riot in which five people were killed, including a Capitol Police officer. His parents must be so proud. I hope they throw the book at him.

The Book Of Morons, I suppose

The indoctrination present from Mormonism and mission in this young person's life primed him to fall for the rhetoric which took him to this place in time. What are the chances he can wake up and see both organizations for what they are? Perhaps some prison time or whatever the punishment turns out to be will assist this person to make changes.

I sincerely hope this will be the case.

presleynfactsrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The indoctrination present from Mormonism and
> mission in this young person's life primed him to
> fall for the rhetoric which took him to this place
> in time.

And that is exactly why these topics are relevant to Mormonism. It is a cult that indoctrinates its members, and even those members defect they often then migrate to other cults. The affinity between Mormonism and today's populism is conspicuous.

Yep. I didn’t grow up in the Morg, but other cults and authoritarian churches have similar problems.

You often make apt points about Mormonism, perhaps a result of familiarity with kindred movements.

Yes, Mormonism is a variation on a theme. The power structure is towards the extreme end of the spectrum and so is the intergenerational continuity. But one of the nasty things about the United States is its almost third-world vulnerability to charlatans and charlatanism.

“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!” - Barry Goldwater

I wonder if Barry would be in cuffs today.

“Caught up in the rhetoric” seems to be a common theme. How do extreme conservatives get so high on their own supply? It takes a certain willful blindness to be a Mormon. It hasn’t always been this way. Liberal voices in Mormonism have gradually been silenced, removing any opposing pressure on the institution’s self delusion. I have to wonder if that happened to the Republican Party as well.

Their cult leader and savior DJT was popping with red flags. Why didn’t they see them? Cultivated blindness. They didn’t want to see. The true believers marched on the Capitol. I don’t think these are the kind to be deterred by prosecution. My worry is that their movement, of the same mindset as ISIS, is hardened. It’s a symptom of growing anomie that’s only being exacerbated by government’s handling of today’s crises. This aggressive response may actually create an American ISIS unless the underlying causes of the anomie can be solved.

“I love my dream of America enough to give my life in its defense, so help me God!”

--”Both Sides Now” in F major

I agree with you. In the last 4 years the far right's base has actually grown, though they lost the election.

I have many old friends who are a part of that movement and, to me, it feels like they are in a cult. I don't argue the facts with them because I know, as a former cult member, that will only make it worse. I hope that things change significantly in the next few years to help those in this new cult to see their way out of it.

If not it will only get worse.

You and bradley are right.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You often make apt points about Mormonism, perhaps
> a result of familiarity with kindred movements.
>
> Yes, Mormonism is a variation on a theme. The
> power structure is towards the extreme end of the
> spectrum and so is the intergenerational
> continuity. But one of the nasty things about the
> United States is its almost third-world
> vulnerability to charlatans and charlatanism.


Thanks for the kind words. I passed through a variety of churches during my late teens and twenties. Like you said, variations on a theme. Some are extremely authoritarian and damaging. Many share traits with Mormonism.

My brother married a Mormon girl 35 years ago.

He was on a mission to kidnap and execute people.

There are also RICO and felony accomplice laws stating that if you are involved in an illegal activity like robbery or looting or attempted murder, you are in some circumstances guilty of the worst crimes committed as part of that endeavor. That fact should keep a lot of the insurrectionists up at night.

Okay, hold on a second...

I heard that the zip ties were there simply to provide a back-up for broken shoelaces! C'mom, man!!

Right?! Some of them brought ZIP TIES!

"Cleveland Grover Meredith Jr.

"Mr. Meredith was charged with threatening Ms. Pelosi after he traveled to Washington for the pro-Trump rally on Wednesday and sent a text message saying he would put 'a bullet in her noggin on Live TV,' the federal authorities said.

"Federal agents said he had been staying at a Holiday Inn in Washington and had weapons in his camper-style trailer, including a Glock handgun, a pistol, a Tavor X95 assault rifle and hundreds of rounds of ammunition.

<snip>

"He was charged with transmitting a threat in interstate commerce, possession of an unregistered firearm and unlawful possession of ammunition, according to court records."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/10/us/politics/capitol-arrests.html

Quit calling them zip ties. Zip ties are what you buy at home depot. These were police issue restraints to be used as hand cuffs. I want to know where the terrorists got them.

fact

Maybe they bought the zip ties in Home Depot's LEO section?

Or, the people with them were either LEOs or got them from LEOs?

An online headline says police departments are checking to see if any of their officers 'attended' the Capitol building 'ceremony'.

I read that the mobsters opened a closet and found police equipment, including the zip ties. The key, however, is that that man took them with intent.

Two years ago the "no politics" standard was relaxed. Supposedly 'political' discussion was to be allowed, but not on a party v. party basis. Here's the rule:

"Recently, more discussion about politics has been allowed at RfM. It is still asked that you relate it to the main subject of Mormonism. There is no space here for party politics. This Is Not The Place when it comes to discussing policies of the current administration or current events not related to Mormonism. It's up to the OP to do the relating when they start a thread, not up to Admin to decide how or whether the topic fits the guidelines although, of course, that's our job if you fail to follow oft-repeated rules.

"Hint: If you're mentioning past or present politicians and leaders by name or obvious inference you're likely on the wrong track and your post/thread will be deleted.

"Please respect the main purpose of RfM in your posting and don't make extra work for Admin/mods by referencing politics that we've asked you to keep off this board."
--https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2225986,2225986#msg-2225986


Now, what in the Tao is hard to understand with regard to this rule? Of course, I'm not an admin, so I'm obviously handicapped, what with only being fluent in two languages...

But what happens when the cult you are escaping is overtaken by a newer and bigger cult with even more pronounced dangers. Are we to act as if the latter is not a cult or that there are no commonalities between the two cults and the thinking they require from their adherents?

What if the distinction between religious cult and political cult disintegrates? Do we then pretend that there is no connection between them?

That is, I suspect, the moderators' dilemma.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quit calling them zip ties. Zip ties are what you
> buy at home depot. These were police issue
> restraints to be used as hand cuffs. I want to
> know where the terrorists got them.

Let's see. There were also at least two IEDs. I am confidant that the person or persons who made those are not in the same league as the Unibomber and will be found and prosecuted in due course.

Proud Boys showed up in bullet-proof vests and helmets. The police also found body-piercing ammunition. You also hd your run-of-the-mill baseball bats and fire extinguishers, one use to bash in the head of a Capitol Hill Police Officer. They used tear gas on the police. I mean, how is any of this okay?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2021 04:29PM by Beth.

>I want to know where the terrorists got them.

You can buy them on Amazon for as little as $10 for 10.

[|] Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >I want to know where the terrorists got them.
>
> You can buy them on Amazon for as little as $10
> for 10.


My God, what else is Amazon selling that is illegal?
(just in case, I'm being sarcastic.... and more than likely my contribution to this link will be deleted.)

For some reason the admins deleted some comments about the killing of the police officer. I don't think that fair: when BLM protestors killed people, we heard about it endlessly from the right-wingers. That's not problematic: murder is murder and should be condemned.

But somehow now the murder of a cop is no longer an allowed topic. Why is that? Do the admins buy into the notion that killings by right-wingers are beyond the bounds of discussion? I doubt it. But the insurgents are killing people and that deserves every bit as much attention, if not more due to its insurrectionist motivation, than deaths due to street violence.

The man was doing his job; he was trying to protect the government and the symbol of the American people. He was as honorable as any other law enforcement officer and his death should not be disregarded.

The rioters murdered a Capitol Hill Police Officer, Brian David Sicknick, 42, by bashing him in the head with a fire extinguisher.

Are you sure those comments were on this thread? The ones about the rioters murdering a Capitol Hill Police Officer, Brian David Sicknick, 42, by bashing him in the head with a fire extinguisher?

Those are being deleted by admin?

There were several comments in, I think, a different thread. You and I participated.

My point here was the inconsistency in the application of the standard. It may be that the mods will remove my comments here on the same grounds, which I think would be unfair but is a question above my pay grade.

Do I get to whoosh you now?

Do a Gladyoosh!!!!

I'm making a pouty face because I don't get the reference.

I revealed Mrs. Lott's first name, Gladys...

Watch it, Jesus.

Yes, dear lady you may whoosh me with abandon.

Dammit!

Gladyoosh!! Take *that*.

"Concerns about more violent incidents appear to be well-founded. Calls for widespread protests on the days leading up to the inauguration of President-elect Joe Biden have been rampant online for weeks. These demonstrations are scheduled to culminate with what organizers have dubbed a “Million Militia March” on Jan. 20 as Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala D. Harris are to be sworn in on the same Capitol grounds that rioters overran on Wednesday.

[. . .]

The aggressive and often hateful chatter has appeared on both mainstream sites such as Twitter and Facebook and niche conservative sites such as TheDonald.win and Parler. The specified locations include the U.S. Capitol and the Mall in Washington, the Utah Capitol in Salt Lake City, and locations in Pittsburgh and Columbus, Ohio. Some events, including an “Armed March on All State Capitals,” include localized events in all 50 states."

I think that the situation in Washington, D.C. is far from over. As you note, there is talk of further gatherings both in the district and in state capitols. Plus, there have already been incidents of harassment of legislators in area airports as those legislators travel back and forth to their home districts.

I am very worried about next weekend in particular, along with the inauguration.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am very worried about next weekend in
> particular, along with the inauguration.

Capitol siege was planned online. Trump supporters now planning the next one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/09/trump-twitter-protests/

All the identified people seem to say, “I didn’t do any damage.” Ok, but even so, you’re still not supposed to be in there.

And the dude from Idaho says he saw an open door and walked in. There’re photos of him dangling from the gallery and dropping into the chamber. That’s not exactly how one strolls nonchalantly in.

There is new footage out today, and the breach was far more violent than was previously thought.

Just like a tapir can be a horse, a door can be an open mezzanine leading to a chamber.

No reason to limit the meanings of your words people. Walking and Dangling are really the same thing in reformed Egyptian.

Why are they all trying to weasel out of it now by saying they walked through open doors, caught up in the crowd, and didn't touch a thing?

How come none of the Proud Boys are proud enough to stand up for the courage of their convictions? Why don't they stand tall and own it?

Instead they are like when Mom and Dad get home and no one wants to admit to who broke the heirloom lamp. A big chorus of "I didn't do it, or Jimmy pushed me, or Janie made me."

I guess when your instigator president call you a patriot and then throws you under the bus it's every man for himself.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How come none of the Proud Boys are proud enough to stand up for the courage of their convictions? Why don't they stand tall and own it?
>

They changed the name to Loud Boys. They aren't Proud as much as Loud, Rowdy, Lost Boys and Girls.

> I guess when your instigator president call you a patriot and then throws you under the bus it's every man for himself. >

They were on the bus and he was driving [them crazy].

He might have run over them... along with himself.

But he was already fat and flat by then.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Instead they are like when Mom and Dad get home
> and no one wants to admit to who broke the
> heirloom lamp. A big chorus of "I didn't do it,
> or Jimmy pushed me, or Janie made me."

The dog did it!

schrodingerscat Wrote:
------------------------------
> The dog did it! >

Ther dogs were held down

While America was held up

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are they all trying to weasel out of it now by
> saying they walked through open doors, caught up
> in the crowd, and didn't touch a thing?
>
> How come none of the Proud Boys are proud enough
> to stand up for the courage of their convictions?
> Why don't they stand tall and own it?
>
> Instead they are like when Mom and Dad get home
> and no one wants to admit to who broke the
> heirloom lamp. A big chorus of "I didn't do it,
> or Jimmy pushed me, or Janie made me."
>
> I guess when your instigator president call you a
> patriot and then throws you under the bus it's
> every man for himself.


Here's a video that looks like security was inviting the "Mob" into the capitol.

https://www.israelunwired.com/never-before-seen-footage-police-let-crowd-walk-into-the-capitol-building/

Reminds me of the Johnny Cash song, "What is Truth?".

Some of the police were [ETA: inviting them in] and also posing for selfies.

At least one police officer goaded the mob into chasing him so the Congressmen could escape the House Chamber.

At least one of the mob is a retired Lt.Col. and one is on active duty. The latter says she handed in her resignation of office, but she hadn't been out-processed yet, so guess what? She's still on AD.

Right now Germany is trying to root out all of the neo-Nazis that have infiltrated its security forces. They were shocked to learn that many people with state-sanctioned use of force were planning to use that force against the state. From November of last year: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-right-wing-extremists-have-infiltrated-german-security-forces

And here we are.

ETA: When does fly fishing start? I might bring a lawn chair and watch y'all do what seems to be a very relaxing and meditative exercise. Until you catch a fish. I guess yaw go a bit nuts then.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2021 05:48PM by Beth.

> Right now Germany is trying to root out all of the
> neo-Nazis that have infiltrated its security
> forces. They were shocked to learn that many
> people with state-sanctioned use of force were
> planning to use that force against the state.

That is what happened during the Weimar years. The security forces, the police, and the judiciary were gradually infiltrated by Nazi sympathizers. That's why Hitler was given such a light sentence as were others later in the decade.

That's often the factor that determines which coups succeed and which fail.