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Posted by: Toronto Boy ( )
Date: January 14, 2021 09:18PM

Since we are in a big lock down in Canada I am taking an online course from the University of Alberta on Indigenous People of Canada. All the faculty are members of different tribes from Canada. Great scholars. The picture I am getting is much different from the what we are taught in the BoM.
Through their history which is passed down by story telling I have learned the following:

The people were here 40,000 years ago
There were giants in the land (Also talked about in the bible)
Some tribes felt there ancestors came from the sky (remember in temple when they used to say we will go down?)
Some tribes felt that a woman descended from the sky to the back of a turtle and then life began.(that is an interesting story and it reflects a little about what Eve was doing in garden in the old temple videos)
They hunted caribou in 3,000 BC
Each tribe had their own customs and political structure
They had trade routes
They traded copper ore, shells and obsidian(a rock to make tools) No precious materials.
Horses did not appear on the seen until after the Spaniards.
It would appear that the Norse people landed in Canada ahead of Columbus. But they disappeared as fast as they came. But wait does the BoM not say that only people God chooses come to the America's? Oh wait the BoM was referring to the USA I guess and not Canada.

I get a sense that the Indigenous people were deeply spiritual, loved life and had a great reverence for animals, nature, etc. Not rebellious, warring, etc. as presented in the BoM. They had strong families with the woman playing a major roll in the welfare of the family and the raising of children.

I asked the question about metals for swords, etc. and they told me they did not have that technology til after the French, British and Dutch came over and they traded furs for them. They used the guns they were given to skin hides instead of the stones and bones they were using. So they would take the barrel off the gun.

I guess that according to update of church handbook this course would be considered not appropriate material. Too secular. The good news folks is I am going to take two more course on Indigenous People. Does anyone know if BYU offers any similar programs or has a Faculty of Indigenous Studies? Maybe they will hire me!!!!!

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: January 14, 2021 09:31PM


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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 14, 2021 09:33PM

Doubt they teach much of that at BYU. Better "leave sleeping dogs lie" is what they are thinking.

When I was at BYU early seventies they had a performing group called the "Lamanite Generation." They performed a variety of Native American songs and dances and toured. Even though they were at BYU and being very Mormon no one seemed to be turning white, though they were very delightsome, yea, even talented.

Back then the Mayan ruins were still Book of Mormon ruins like for sure instead of like now---maybe they are? There was no DNA disruption to the myth. They were all still Jewish descent and steel swords were most likely to be dug up any day now.


But we know the story. Google came our way and information like is in Simon Southerton's book and Lamanite Generation was rebranded "Living Legends" and now celebrates all the use to be BoM peoples without mentioning the Lamanites at all. Funny that.

Seems wrong after Heavenly Father went to all the trouble to curse them with a dark skin. Geez. How on earth do people believe that crap? How?

I envy your studies.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 16, 2021 08:10AM

I remember the Lamanite Generation! I saw them at a BYU variety show in the mid-70s. I turned to my Mormon convert friend and asked, "What's a Lamanite?" lol

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 16, 2021 10:40AM

Haha. Indeed. What's a Lamanite!


Most think you are just mispronouncing laminate. Kitchen counter-tops doing the hoop dance? Why not!

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: February 17, 2021 10:17PM

It’s what Mormons who pay a full tithe get instead of granite.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: January 14, 2021 09:49PM

History is very subjective. It’s all based on who’s story survived. The only people who know what truly went on were the people who were there.

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: January 15, 2021 12:23PM

I am reminded of the creation story of the Nez Perce here in Idaho. Apparently a massive monster inhabited the land and swallowed every living thing in sight. A wily fox decided to kill the monster and carrying sharp knives he allowed himself to be swallowed by the monster and proceeded to kill it from inside. In its death throws the monster threw out all the trapped people over the land, thus creating all the tribes that filled the land. The only people left without a place were the Nez Perce who took the land where the beast lay dying. If you go near Kamiah, Idaho you can visit the park where the calcified remains of the beast in the form of a massive mound lies today.

I love this story but apologies to any NP if I got it wrong in any way.

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Posted by: kenc ( )
Date: January 15, 2021 01:08PM

Where in Idaho do you live Kentish? I'm in Moscow, ID (home of the University of Idaho)

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 15, 2021 01:13PM

Home of the Fighting Fries!

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Posted by: kenc ( )
Date: January 16, 2021 03:13PM

Fighting fries? I would like some of those! LOL! Where did you come up with that? It's great.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 17, 2021 12:39AM

> Where did you come
> up with that?


I am not a well man ...

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 17, 2021 01:17AM

Say it, Sister!

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: January 16, 2021 09:05AM

I have lived in Nampa for the past 15 years. As I say, yesterday London, today Nampa.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: February 17, 2021 12:14PM

Ah, Nampa..I have a few dorm mates from Ricks living there.

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Posted by: anon2 ( )
Date: January 16, 2021 04:56AM

Father Lehi brought his tipi over. There is no way it originated with the Nenets or Sámi people! Lehi packed his tents out of Jerusalem, right? JK.

Ancient peoples didn't build giant ships. They just took very long strolls during earth's most recent glaciation. There must have been some crazy father out there that angered his son, so Nenet Jr. beat his father with a frozen fish and took off across the Bering straight. A cool 83 km stroll across the ice, never to return.

It's in the Book of Nenet Jr., the teenager that had a chip on his shoulder. A chip of frozen fish.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: January 16, 2021 11:23AM

A few groups went down the coast all the way to Tierra del Fuego around 20-15,000 years ago or so, but nobody was in the Americas before that.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 16, 2021 05:17PM

It depends if you consider Berengia part of North America. If the western fringe of Alaska counts, then there were people in the Americas between 20 and 25,000 years ago.

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Posted by: TP ( )
Date: February 17, 2021 09:26AM

anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few groups went down the coast all the way to
> Tierra del Fuego around 20-15,000 years ago or so,
> but nobody was in the Americas before that.

There is a lot of resistance in mainstream academia to the idea pre-Clovis colonization or anything a few thousand years before that. Some people say they have found evidence but that is highly controversial.

This means that people have been in the Americas for a fraction of the time people have been in Eurasia. Certified remains in Europe go back ten times as far.
Those in Australia go back at least three times as far.

Only a handful of bigger landmasses have been colonized in the past two thousand years such as New Zealand, Hawaii, the Falkland Islands and bizarrely Madagascar, even though it is closer to mankind's supposed homeland.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 17, 2021 03:50PM

TP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a lot of resistance in mainstream
> academia to the idea pre-Clovis colonization or
> anything a few thousand years before that. Some
> people say they have found evidence but that is
> highly controversial.

There's not much controversy anymore. Clovis First is a distinctly minority view.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: February 17, 2021 12:21PM

When did the use of 'eh begin?

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: February 17, 2021 01:24PM

I mentally apologized to my First Nations ancestors for calling them Lamanites.

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Posted by: JoeSmith666 ( )
Date: February 17, 2021 07:37PM

How many generations do you have to live in a land to be considered "native" - or "indigenous"?

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: February 18, 2021 12:40PM

JoeSmith666 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many generations do you have to live in a land
> to be considered "native" - or "indigenous"?


Many more than later "settlers".


UN Fact Sheet

https://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/5session_factsheet1.pdf


"Who are indigenous peoples?:

"It is estimated that there are more than 370 million indigenous people spread across 70 countries worldwide. Practicing unique traditions, they retain social, cultural, economic and political characteristics that are distinct from those of the dominant societies in which they live. Spread across the world from the Arctic to the South Pacific, they are the descendants - according to a common definition - of those who inhabited a country or a geographical region at the time when people of different cultures or ethnic origins arrived. The new arrivals later became dominant through conquest, occupation, settlement or other means.

"Among the indigenous peoples are those of the Americas (for example, the Lakota in the USA, the Mayas in Guatemala or the Aymaras in Bolivia), the Inuit and Aleutians of the circumpolar region, the Saami of northern Europe, the Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders of Australia and the Maori of New Zealand. These and most other indigenous peoples have retained distinct characteristics which are clearly different from those of other segments of the national populations.


"Understanding the term “indigenous”:

"Considering the diversity of indigenous peoples, an official definition of “indigenous” has not been adopted by any UN-system body. Instead the system has developed a modern understanding of this term based on the following:

*Self- identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their member;

*Historical continuity with pre-colonial and/or pre-settler societies;

*Strong link to territories and surrounding natural resources;

*Distinct social, economic or political systems;

*Distinct language, culture and beliefs;

*Form non-dominant groups of society; and

*Resolve to maintain and reproduce their ancestral environments and systems as distinctive peoples and communities.


"A question of identity:

"According to the UN the most fruitful approach is to identify, rather than define indigenous peoples. This is based on the fundamental criterion of self-identification as underlined in a number of human rights documents.

"The term “indigenous” has prevailed as a generic term for many years. In some countries, there may be preference for other terms including tribes, first peoples/nations, aboriginals, ethnic groups, adivasi, janajati. Occupational and geographical terms like hunter-gatherers, nomads, peasants, hill people, etc., also exist and for all practical purposes can be used interchangeably with “indigenous peoples”.

"In many cases, the notion of being termed “indigenous” has negative connotations and some people may choose not to reveal or define their origin. Others must respect such choices, while at the same time working against the discrimination of indigenous peoples.


"Culture and Knowledge:

"Indigenous peoples are the holders of unique languages, knowledge systems and beliefs and possess invaluable knowledge of practices for the sustainable management of natural resources. They have a special relation to and use of their traditional land. Their ancestral land has a fundamental importance for their collective physical and cultural survival as peoples. Indigenous peoples hold their own diverse concepts of development, based on their traditional values, visions, needs and priorities.


"Political participation:

"Indigenous peoples often have much in common with other neglected segments of societies, i.e. lack of political representation and participation, economic marginalization and poverty, lack of access to social services and discrimination. Despite their cultural differences, the diverse indigenous peoples share common problems also related to the protection of their rights. They strive for recognition of their identities, their ways of life and their right to traditional lands, territories and natural resources."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2021 12:42PM by Nightingale.

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