The other day there was some discussion of the more negative abusive and authoritarian behaviors in various churches being variations on a theme. I can't find the thread to post this comment in, but I came across this video (I guess YouTube really does know what we're watching) about a different church purging large numbers of members in Canada by excommunication. For the most part, their "crimes" seem to be disagreement, or questioning. Cults demand conformity...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVXcNWh5Twg

At about the 15 minute mark they start discussing the destruction of excommunicated members businesses (essentially because shunning requires no contact) and the impact on marriages when one person in a couple is excommunicated.

Anyway, I found it interesting, and so I thought I'd share it.

I think I read the following in People magazine regarding a
young man who was sexually abused by his Catholic Bishop.

My thoughts were, that men just can't remain celibate, regardless of their religion. IMO, it's not that they are not trying to remain so, it is just nature at work. Think of the guilt such men have to carry around with them. Very sad.

This is why I've long advocated that Catholic priests should be able to marry, if they desire to do so.

There are many, many men who can live celibate lives. So I disagree with pollythinks's statement that men are incapable of that.

But I concur that celibacy is a bad institution. No man or woman who has not loved or who lacks familial obligations and experience can empathize with normal people. To take one example, I doubt that Francis would be so quick to discourage progress regarding accountability for molestation if he had a parent's understanding of children.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2021 02:40PM by Lot's Wife.

Agreed. And celibacy itself isn't really the issue (priests can fool around with consenting adults all they like, as far as I'm concerned).

Molesting children is the issue, and allowing priests to marry isn't likely to impact that problem in a significant way. Someone who would molest a child isn't necessarily going to stop just because he CAN get married, or even if he IS (unfortunately, many married men molest children).

Yes, there are two--well, three--facets to this problem.

First, as any good Boy Scout knows, child molesters wouldn't be barred by allowing priests to marry.

Second, allowing marriage would probably produce better priests and counselors.

Third, the church has to change policy if it wants to protect children. I read an article yesterday or the day before explaining how Cardinal Dolan used the promise of reform plus pressure on legislators to stop them from changing the law to force greater disclosure.

It seems clear to me that the RCC is not yet serious about protecting children.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/leaked-transcript-shows-church-effort-to-block-cva-exclusive/ar-BB1cKnfj

I watched Filthy Rich on Netflix. Not many religious and governmental institutions are interested in protecting children.

I’m not catholic, and never been a Priest, of course, but I would agree that being married and/or having kids would probably make them better informed by experience to perform their priestly duties. For example, I wasn’t a father until my forties, but I thought I understood kids simply from having been one. That’s the same baseline every adult has, but I can say with certainty that the experience of fatherhood changed my perspective quite a bit. It gives you multiple perspectives on children, 1) having been one, and 2) being responsible for one (or more).

And to be clear, it doesn’t have to be spawn-of-my-loins fatherhood. I was a step-father. I was going to say there’s nothing like having little kids looking up at you for everything, but I realize it’s partly the looking back that clinches it (because it occurs to me that many people aren’t affected by the being looked up at part, or even ignore, or run away from it).

I knew I would love my then-girlfriend’s daughters before I even met them, from stories she told me, and pictures she showed me, and probably because I loved her. People talk about the “package deal.” I loved the package. Still do.

So, I was first a step-dad, then a single-dad, then then legally dad on paper when they reached adulthood. But I FELT “daddy” from the moment I met them (it was a little slower process, of course), but I felt it right away. It makes you different.

But, to get back on topic, I think participating in the parent relationship would better inform priests, or anyone really, about the nature of that relationship, and also caring for children.


Edited to add that I was widowed. Never stopped loving my wife.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2021 09:59AM by Gordon B. Stinky.

I had no idea how ugly it could get until I dealt with the leaders.

on the nature of evil, and keep returning to the idea that, at its core, it is attempting to control the life of another being.
For humans it starts with controlling information, words, and therefore thought. (Work in progress)

On this basis, I conclude that religions -- those seeking to truncate the natural unfolding of enlightenment in a human being -- are among the most evil institutions ever devised.

"By their fruits . . ."

Interesting. Sounds like the purge similar to Warren Jeffs expelling lots of men and boys. He just wanted them out.