...along with all the responses we piled up under his OP.

SC has, since around 2011, been an annoyance to me, because I think he is a sloppy thinker. In my heart of hearts, I imagine that I would have no problem yakking it up over a beer or two because I think he would see that I care about people and that I just want him to ...do... better. Plus I could make him laugh.

And yes, I did vote to ban him from PostMormon(dot)org when he was going through his "LOOK AT MIN'S BIG PEE-PEE!" stage and would not stop posting the .jpegs no matter how many times he was politely asked to stop. Ah, yes, he's a passionate bugger, he is!

His 'magical thinking' post was quite the improvement. But then he's left himself SOOO much room to show improvement.

Because of my now elderly mind, and its increasing incompetence when it comes to short-term memories, I don't remember much about any of the posts. Even the one I'm about to address:

SC made mention of his relationship with 9/11. Over the years he's alluded to 9/11 converting him to Atheism, and other types of changes. In the now missing Magical Thinking post, he made mention of 9/11, with a slightly different twist, the exact nature of which escapes me, because I'm trying to think of it! (Those of you under the age of, say around 60..., won't actually understand it, until it happens...)

In any event, after posting his comment about what 9/11 did to him, I ventured a smarmy response about how I thought it strange that an event, no matter how unexpected, could change one's thinking.

In my mind, I meant when the event was viewed from a safe emotional distance. Obviously, if a loved one died because of 9/11, then it's a huge thing. Just as a crack in the sidewalk would loom monstrous in one's mind if your mother sustained a broken back because you'd stepped on one!

Now I can't remember who called me out on my remark to SC... But the call-out was, in my mind, "why can't an unexpected event of that magnitude change the way a person thinks?"

And I've pretty much given my answer: Watching an event on TV, from a safe distance, and experiencing no personal relationship with things or people being viewed, ought not to effect any interior changes.

For the vast majority of us, watching the second plane hit the second tower, and then watching both towers collapse, did not make any changes in us, other than to, for a while, make us glare at Arab-looking males when they boarded with us on airline flights.



But mainly I'm annoyed at the unexplained disappearance of SC's thread. Do/does management OWE us an explanation? No. Their ball, their playground, so their rules.

I have no problem declaring that my Boob thread could have been taken down with no complaint from me. It certainly rose higher in that risk category than SC's 'magic thinking' thread.

Do we deserve this type of treatment? "Deserve" may be a loaded word, but among adults, the issue is fair game... Does management have any duty to us, the readers, or does the site exist independent of those who populate it? What does management manage, without us?

It’s still up in alternative universe. Did you look at porn?

Relax .
I think I hold the record for number of deleted threads

I think I have the record for being blocked but I am okay with it and I do understand.

One of the main reasons I get on rfm these days is the kori vs old dog rivalry. I laugh every time. Keeps me going when I feel down.

Kori seems to say the exact same thing over and over and old dog tries to show him that he is saying the same thing over and over but he does not get it. That is the gist of it it seems.

Dang it, Adam!

You used 41 words, in your second paragraph, where I would normally use 376, just in the intro my thesis! And you said it better than me!


Stop making me look bad!!

I like to summarize and simplify things haha.

Keep it simple. English was never my best subject in school. There are less writing errors if I simplify you know what I am saying haha.

The thread began okay, but then turned irretrievably political.

Okay.

But letting us know allows for the possibility of growth.

I always assume that's the case when a thread disappears. Every once in a great while it turns out to have been something else. I've had a couple disappear where I saw none of the replies, and wondered what possibly could have happened. They seemed pretty innocuous to me. But what do I know.

Now you know, and presumably have an enlarged growth potential. Ooh, that sounds medical. :-/

Gotta watch those growths.

Regarding 9/11 -- I didn't personally know anyone working in the twin towers or the Pentagon when the planes hit, although I had prior to that. I had considered a job in one of the towers, and rejected the thought, because I felt the towers were too vulnerable in an evacuation (my rule was, don't work any higher than a FD ladder truck can get to you if necessary.) I had personally visited the twin towers numerous times before 9/11 and had nightmares about that for years afterward. I was traumatized looking at the video of the downed towers since I had lived in NYC for many years, and if you ever lived in NYC during that time period, the twin towers were how you oriented yourself when you were out and about. You got out of a subway stop, and reflexively looked for the towers. That was south, and you could find your way from there. I remember finding my way home on 9/11, being diverted by police officers off of the highway, and away from the city core, and picking my way around Federal installations. I remember the quiet skies.

I remembered the faces of the firefighters from my nearby firehouse in central Brooklyn, even though I had long since moved away. The guys had a sofa outside of the firehouse that they would sometimes sit on. They were polite and friendly. I wondered, did they survive the attacks? I found out years later that they did. They replaced firefighters in north Brooklyn who were sent to the towers. Most of those firefighters died.

So yeah, there was trauma. Maybe westerners didn't feel it as much. But on the Atlantic seaboard, there was trauma. I'm not going to tell anyone what they should or should not have been feeling. We lost more Americans that day than at Pearl Harbor.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2021 02:17PM by summer.

I was on the fifth floor of a building on E St SW on 9/11. We could see the smoke from across 395 and the Potomac. I joined a pair of coworkers who as immigrants of color immediately worried they would have difficulty leaving DC. I was the token white male in the car, and never mind that we were all Federal contractors.

Before leaving the building, I lost phone communication early with my family as lines were jammed. I stayed on AOL IM longer until that dropped too, and worried for hours thereafter.

I spent the night at my coworker’s house while her spouse was stuck in Manhattan - sleeping of course in another room. I woke up early and took Metro back across DC to my home.

It’s 20 years almost, and I still feel out of sorts about the whole matter. So yes, there was and still is real trauma.

Tyson

9/11 affected me profoundly because I empathized, with my fellow Americans, who died after praying to God to save their lives, with flames licking their backs and 100 floors of air beneath them. They chose the latter when God failed to save them.
So no magical thinking.
It was the death of magical thinking.
But I didn’t become an atheist.
I became a nihilist, at first.
The first thing I said was, “Nietzsche was right, God is dead.”
The Interventionist God of the Bible was dead to me, when He allowed evil to prevail on 9-11. But that smoldering black void turned out to be a hopeless, depressing, uninhabitable place. I had to find something to give me hope as a matter of survival. So I looked around me, at the wise words of wise men and women where I found the words that offered me a glimmer of hope for the future,’Be the Change You Want To See In The World” rang true to me. From that point on I decided to renounce my membership in any kind of tribal group thinking that gave rise to evil, like 9-11.
I looked to the enlightened words of wise men, Jefferson, Franklin, Einstein, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Hitch. I found a good alternative to the group think of the theism/atheism false dichotomy, Ironically in the pages of ‘The God Delusion’, Einstein’s Religion.
That worked for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2021 03:59PM by schrodingerscat.

I remember the jumpers. The earliest news reports showed them, but in later reports they were understandably edited out. I remember someone saying, "How bad was it that the better option was to jump?" It was that bad.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember the jumpers. The earliest news reports
> showed them, but in later reports they were
> understandably edited out. I remember someone
> saying, "How bad was it that the better option was
> to jump?" It was that bad.

I do too. I put myself in their shoes and I experienced their deaths as the death of God, like Ellie Weisel watching a fair haired beautiful young man, die in in Auschwitz, experienced as the death of God.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 9/11 affected me profoundly because I empathized,
> with my fellow Americans, who died after praying
> to God to save their lives, with flames licking
> their backs and 100 floors of air beneath them.
> They chose the latter when God failed to save
> them.
> So no magical thinking.
> It was the death of magical thinking.

I'm sure millions of people have prayed to their gods to save them, save their children, save their neighbors.

You aren't alone.
You and other people who prayed aren't stupid for praying, for hoping for a savior.
I understand that if you don't have the proper tools to get the job done, you get desperate and pray to some magical being.

When I have a tooth ache, no need to pray. I just go to the dentist, pay cash and in 1 h, it is handled.
Imagine being in a nasty car accident and losing both legs or becoming paralyzed or brain dead. The tools to fix such problems don't exist.

Do people pray when their TV breaks down, when their toilet gets blocked, when their refrigerator stops, when their OS fails to boot?

~~~~iceman9090, an atheist, reality is a bitch.

So what happened to my thread?
A couple of my threads suddenly disappear when I post them.
It would be nice to know if it is deleted by the admin.

~~~~iceman9090

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 9/11 affected me profoundly because I empathized,
> with my fellow Americans, who died after praying
> to God to save their lives, with flames licking
> their backs and 100 floors of air beneath them.
> They chose the latter when God failed to save
> them.
> So no magical thinking.
> It was the death of magical thinking.
> But I didn’t become an atheist.
> I became a nihilist, at first.
> The first thing I said was, “Nietzsche was
> right, God is dead.”
> The Interventionist God of the Bible was dead to
> me, when He allowed evil to prevail on 9-11. But
> that smoldering black void turned out to be a
> hopeless, depressing, uninhabitable place. I had
> to find something to give me hope as a matter of
> survival. So I looked around me, at the wise words
> of wise men and women where I found the words that
> offered me a glimmer of hope for the future,’Be
> the Change You Want To See In The World” rang
> true to me. From that point on I decided to
> renounce my membership in any kind of tribal group
> thinking that gave rise to evil, like 9-11.
> I looked to the enlightened words of wise men,
> Jefferson, Franklin, Einstein, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Sam
> Harris, Richard Dawkins, Hitch. I found a good
> alternative to the group think of the
> theism/atheism false dichotomy, Ironically in the
> pages of ‘The God Delusion’, Einstein’s
> Religion.
> That worked for me.

Wow. So you stopped "magical thinking" after 9/11. You abandoned religious belief and became first a nihilist and then an atheist. Do I have that right?

Because I'm having trouble fitting your 15 or so years as a Muslim into that framework. Does Islam fit into your nihilistic phase or your subsequent atheistic phase?

Lot's Wife Wrote:
>
> Wow. So you stopped "magical thinking" after
> 9/11. You abandoned religious belief and became
> first a nihilist and then an atheist. Do I have
> that right?

No. I was never an atheist. I went from a (former Muslim) Mormon to nihlist on 9-11. That wasn't a viable long term world view for me. Too GD hopeless. So I searched around, through the History of Doubt, for alternatives.

https://onbeing.org/programs/jennifer-michael-hecht-a-history-of-doubt/

Epicureanism combined with Stoicism probably comes closest to what I believe now, but Epicureans and Stoics are a rare breed these days. Pantheism also works, the religion of Einstein and Richard Dawkins.

> Because I'm having trouble fitting your 15 or so
> years as a Muslim into that framework. Does Islam
> fit into your nihilistic phase or your subsequent
> atheistic phase?

You don't really 'quit' Islam, like you do Mormonism. There's no HQ to send in your resignation. So I never 'resigned' from Islam, I just quit believing in any kind of organized religion on 9-11, but especially Islam and Mormonism.

> No. I was never an atheist. I went from a (former
> Muslim) Mormon to nihlist on 9-11.

Do you forget that we've done this before. Months ago you claimed you hadn't been a Muslim since 9-11 and I dug up posts on this board in which you were still proudly calling yourself a Muslim until just a few years ago.

We all know you are too brilliant to be tied down to the mundane world of facts, but give us a break. For better or worse, some of us have reliable memories.


------------------
> So I never 'resigned' from Islam, I
> just quit believing in any kind of organized
> religion on 9-11, but especially Islam and
> Mormonism.

Yeah, right.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Do you forget that we've done this before. Months
> ago you claimed you hadn't been a Muslim since
> 9-11 and I dug up posts on this board in which you
> were still proudly calling yourself a Muslim until
> just a few years ago.

Like I said, you don’t quit being Muslim like you quit MORmONism. There’s no central office building to send your resignation. I just quit believing in Islam, but I am still Muslim, like it or not.

I thought the WTC attack was pretty traumatic, though I only knew one person who worked there, and him, not that well. Turned out he was in Madrid, waiting for a flight to Morocco when the attack happened. The flight to Morocco got cancelled, and he was stuck in Spain for a week or so.

I had figured out that God has a pretty limited bag of tricks by about age 12, give or take. I thought everyone knew that. That was why Rusty closed the temples and told the Priesthood™ to stop administering to the sick who might have covid. He knew that was not in the bag of tricks.

I figured it was only the churchy snake handlers who didn't get the memo about God's obviously limited repertoire of tricks.

As long as we are on the subject of magical thinking, I'd recommend "The Year of Magical Thinking" by Joan Didion. Hell, read anything by Joan Didion.

The book is autobiographical. Her daughter came down with a mysterious disease, and was quite ill, enough to need frequent hospitalization. She died from it sometime after the book was written. Joan and her husband visited daughter in hospital on Christmas Eve. They get home, Joan is putting dinner on the table, and her husband quietly dies of a heart attack in the living room.

She spent a year second-guessing and blaming herself. The book tells that tale.

Come to think of it, when it comes to traumatic tragedies, Theodore Roosevelt deserves honorable mention. When he was 25 and his first child had been born, his wife died from complications from childbirth. His mother, in a completely unrelated cause, died unexpectedly the same day, in the same house. And it was Valentine's Day.

That was when he took off to western North Dakota to be more or less alone for a few years.

A few weeks after my father died, my brother and I spent Christmas in California. It was my first time spending Christmas away from home, and in a warm weather climate to boot. I think when you are grieving, getting out of your normal environment can be a good thing.

. . . like Magic

SC, my favorite of your posts was when you told us about your mom and grannie. I loved that.

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SC, my favorite of your posts was when you told us
> about your mom and grannie. I loved that.
Awwe. Sweet. Thanks. Love them both to bits. Both great women and totally different.

So here's a thing I wouldn't have said a few years ago: I like a lot of SC's posts. Here's why:

1. He's significantly less repetitive these days. Sure there are still the annoying repeated posts that lay bare his tenuous understanding of physics and physicists, but he posts other things too. No longer is every other post a missive on Min's member!

2. His posts often generate a lot of discussion. So, even if he's a bit quirky, the discussion often becomes robust because of the others who join in.

3. Maybe it's just me, but it seems that this board could use more discussion... it seems like the quality and quantity of the info related to "recovery from Mormonism" has declined significantly over the past few years. The activity generated by SC's posts constitutes a big part of the board. I'm not sure what to make of that...

> I'm not sure what to make of that...


How about, 'it is what it is...'?

I won't go so far as to anoint him as a diamond in the rough, but yeah, he sure can generate responses. He just can't learn from them.

Maybe if we could get Sam or Michio or Neal to post here ...? Maybe coming from them...

Humberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So here's a thing I wouldn't have said a few years
> ago: I like a lot of SC's posts. Here's why:
>
> 1. He's significantly less repetitive these days.
> Sure there are still the annoying repeated posts
> that lay bare his tenuous understanding of physics
> and physicists, but he posts other things too. No
> longer is every other post a missive on Min's
> member!

That was just the most shocking thing I read in the CES letter and I couldn't believe nobody else was even talking about it. People act like I'm crazy because I point out that the abusive CULT I was born into has a depiction of an Egyptian Fertility God in it's GD scriptures. It's like here's an abusive CULT - Exhibit A: Depiction of a sexually aroused Egyptian Fertility God in their Scriptures, identified as "God".
Exhibit B: Singing the praises of a pedophile, rapist, Con Man.
Exhibit C: All the abuse victims I know of personally.
>
> 2. His posts often generate a lot of discussion.
> So, even if he's a bit quirky, the discussion
> often becomes robust because of the others who
> join in.
>
That's what this forum is about, for me. It's a cheap form of therapy, articulating your 'quirky' thoughts, anonymously, and subjecting them to other people's input/criticism, to refine them and make them more useful.

> 3. Maybe it's just me, but it seems that this
> board could use more discussion... it seems like
> the quality and quantity of the info related to
> "recovery from Mormonism" has declined
> significantly over the past few years. The
> activity generated by SC's posts constitutes a big
> part of the board. I'm not sure what to make of
> that...

As EOD says, I've been a thorn in his side for the past 10 years. I left the church 10 years before that.
I appreciate playing the devil's advocate here and offering an alternative viewpoint to the false theist/atheist dichotomy that dominates this forum.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2021 10:38PM by schrodingerscat.

"...false theist/atheist dichotomy that dominates this forum."

But it doesn't.

You've given yourself a purpose here that isn't needed.

I am left to conclude that The Cat must have hunted and caught some truly magnificent snipe.

Their taxidermied remains populate his awesome trophy case...

After many years of daily seeing Min's member, about which everyone knew, the one thing I really needed was constant posts about some theist/atheist dichotomy that does not exist. But it's better, surely, than seeing videos of Kori accosting missionaries with a hidden camera.

The perseveration of a woodpecker. . .

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "...false theist/atheist dichotomy that dominates
> this forum."
>
> But it doesn't.
>
> You've given yourself a purpose here that isn't
> needed.

I could say the same thing about you, but
that's bullshit.

I've had the children get ahold of me through this site, who were kids of the kids I grew up with in this abusive cult, who were abused by known pedophiles, the CULT put in charge of us.

That's needed and much appreciated, by those kids, who escaped the captivity of this abusive cult, and were protected as a result.

Through reaching out to people here and telling their stories, speaking up for them, because they've been silenced by this abusive cult and people like the OP and those on this site, who just don't give a shit and want you to STFU about it!

That's needed.

I haven't been silenced, which is why I speak up.
I was abused, by this abusive cult I inherited and I blew the whistle and called bullshit on all the abuse, in 3 different wards, in 3 different decades. I became a black sheep in my community and my family for speaking up about kids I knew of wh were being abused by Mormon penis holders.
The MOrmons in my own family came out against me and still to this day my abusive Mormon sister doesn't speak to me, moved to another country, another continent, because we call bullshit on her abusive bullshit.
We have all suffered abuse by this cult, to one degree or another. The Mormon CULT is a racist, sexist, misogynist, abusive doomsday CULT, that continues to keep this racist, sexist, homophobic, abusive Victorian Era ideology and hypocritical morality, alive and well.
I feel like I'm obligated to speak up for the victims of this abusive cult, if I know it's an abusive cult. I speak up on the victims behalf, because they've been silenced.
And on behalf of my children, and their children.
I don't want to be remembered for the times I failed to speak up on their behalf.
I want to be remembered for speaking up for them.
It seems to me like we have plenty of common ground in this country, in this world. But when I ask on this forum if there's any common ground, everybody says nope. None.
Our survival is not a partisan issue. We have that in common.

The thing that gave me hope over the past 4 years, was that PotUS WASN'T a religious nut, he didn't REALLY subscribe to the apocalyptic myths of "Revelations" and therefore wouldn't REALLY spike the nuclear football and fulfill the violent prophecies all of his supporters believe in, including Mormons and Christians, right?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2021 03:10PM by schrodingerscat.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Elder Berry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "...false theist/atheist dichotomy that
> dominates
> > this forum."
> >
> > But it doesn't.
> >
> > You've given yourself a purpose here that isn't
> > needed.
>
> I could say the same thing about you, but
> that's bullshit.

Yep, because you can't say the same thing about me here. That is why it is BS.

And the abuse vendetta hero you style yourself as here isn't the purpose of fighting a false theist/atheist dichotomy that you say dominates here.

When you go off on this tirade it just shows me that you have no defense against the defenseless accusation that RfM has some false dichotomy going for it that you need to address.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep, because you can't say the same thing about me
> here. That is why it is BS.
>
> And the abuse vendetta hero you style yourself as
> here isn't the purpose of fighting a false
> theist/atheist dichotomy that you say dominates
> here.

I'm not 'styling myself as an abuse vendetta hero' just speaking up for innocent victims who've been silenced by this cult, by people more interested in 'preserving the good name of the church' than they are in protecting innocent children. So I soil the so-called "Good Name" of the CULT every chance I get, because that's what I can do. I do what I can to debunk Joseph's Myth, because it's bogus and flies in the face of reason and common human decency.

I don't know about you.

Preaching to the choir with your level of invective speaks more about you and less to others here.

And about that false dichotomy....you say nothing.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Preaching to the choir with your level of
> invective speaks more about you and less to others
> here.

I suppose it does. I actually care about those real people. Those, like you and the OP, obviously don't. Message received.

> And about that false dichotomy....you say nothing.

Atheism is a false dichotomy because it only exists in relation to theism, which is the false hope that death isn't real and that we will be magically saved by a Savior who has consistently failed to save any of us, when we need it most.
Yet atheism still seems to be the default setting here, once exMormons arrive at the conclusion that the church they inherited is a fraud. Why self inflict the most despised identity on yourself when it's not even a real thing? It's nothing. It's not a world view, it's not a philosophy, it's not even a moral framework. It is nothing except a polemic in a pointless argument that just divides people and sets them at odds.
I'm more interested in finding common ground with people, most of whom believe there's more to life than what we can sense with our 5 senses.

> I suppose it does. I actually care about those
> real people. Those, like you and the OP, obviously
> don't. Message received.

Now that seems a bit churlish given that OP went out of his way to revivify your thread.


----------------
> Atheism is a false dichotomy because it only
> exists in relation to theism, which is the false
> hope that death isn't real and that we will be
> magically saved by a Savior who has consistently
> failed to save any of us, when we need it most.
> Yet atheism still seems to be the default setting
> here, once exMormons arrive at the conclusion that
> the church they inherited is a fraud. Why self
> inflict the most despised identity on yourself
> when it's not even a real thing? It's nothing.
> It's not a world view, it's not a philosophy, it's
> not even a moral framework. It is nothing except a
> polemic in a pointless argument that just divides
> people and sets them at odds.

You are criticized for trying to fit everyone into black-and-white categories and your answer is once again to reiterate your own dichotomous thinking and insist that it characterizes others. It does not. You are impervious to others' thinking.


------------------
> I'm more interested in finding common ground with
> people,

That is belied by your refusing to consider other perspectives and your again impervious insistence that people must view the world through your lenses. That's not the behavior of someone who wants to find "common ground," which implies compromise.

He is a study in cognitive dissonance and he uses it like a weapon on others.

His caring about people isn't in the aggregate so probably too the anonymous. He has written that COVID is somehow an anthropomorphized nature's doing as if that is better than the natural human beings who aimed airplanes at buildings.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He is a study in cognitive dissonance and he uses
> it like a weapon on others.
>
> His caring about people isn't in the aggregate so
> probably too the anonymous. He has written that
> COVID is somehow an anthropomorphized nature's
> doing as if that is better than the natural human
> beings who aimed airplanes at buildings.

Obviously Covid, like all other pandemics, is nature's doing. Are you under the false impression it's not?
As if it's better than natural human beings who aimed planes at buildings? Nature isn't evil. Humans can be, 9-11 is a perfect case in point.

> As if it's better than natural
> human beings who aimed planes
> at buildings? Nature isn't evil.
> Humans can be, 9-11 is a perfect
> case in point.


I think you learned to 'discuss' things in noisy barrooms, in which both speaking loud and fast were required, and actually making sense was completely optional.


First quote: "natural human beings" ...

What are the other types of humans, mormons?


Second quote: "Nature isn't evil. Humans can be, 9-11 is a perfect case in point."

Is there a universally accepted definition of evil?

I don't doubt that we could get a vast majority to agree that certain acts were 'evil', but it's possible (likely?) that we might never get 100% agreement. Remember the videos of people cheering at the news of 9-11?

Most humans are quite capable of reading a headline about thousands of people dying in a far-off country and not even giving it a second thought. The tsunami events in Thailand are an example, in terms of psychic impact on those who dwell half a world away. Are such people 'evil' because it doesn't impact them emotionally?

There have been random acts of 'nature' that have caused enormous suffering. For instance, you are soon going to be telling us about the poles 'flipping' and how horrible the effects were 42,000 years ago and how it's going to wreak havoc on us all again!! (I'd love it if you proved me wrong!)

I get that Nature cannot be assigned Intent, but Nature has a good chance of having caused more 'evil' than man has, if 'evil' could be assigned units of measure. As in, "Man has caused 72 trillion tons of Evil, but Nature has caused 11 quadrillion hectares of suffering, so Nature wins!"

Again, I can now perceive that you're treating RfM like a barroom and you feel it perfectly proper to shout whatever you think will get you noticed, reasoning optional.

In your mind, sincerity establishes your bona fides and makes everything you say, "truthy". It's sorta like truth, but easier to work with!

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I think you learned to 'discuss' things in noisy
> barrooms, in which both speaking loud and fast
> were required, and actually making sense was
> completely optional.

You're entitled to your ignorant opinion, but you're so full of shit your eyes are brown.

> First quote: "natural human beings" ...
>
> What are the other types of humans, mormons?

Dumb point: I was quoting Elder Berry. Ask him.

> Second quote: "Nature isn't evil. Humans can be,
> 9-11 is a perfect case in point."
>
> Is there a universally accepted definition of
> evil?

2nd Dumbest point: Google is your friend, not me.

Evil: profoundly immoral and wicked.

>
> I don't doubt that we could get a vast majority to
> agree that certain acts were 'evil', but it's
> possible (likely?) that we might never get 100%
> agreement. Remember the videos of people cheering
> at the news of 9-11?

No but Trump does and so do you apparently. lol

> Most humans are quite capable of reading a
> headline about thousands of people dying in a
> far-off country and not even giving it a second
> thought. The tsunami events in Thailand are an
> example, in terms of psychic impact on those who
> dwell half a world away. Are such people 'evil'
> because it doesn't impact them emotionally?

I don't think apathy counts as "profoundly immoral and wicked" just apathetic.

> There have been random acts of 'nature' that have
> caused enormous suffering.

I don't think acts of nature are "random". There is always cause and effect. And I don't think that suffering caused by nature is 'evil' or "profoundly immoral and wicked". Morality is a human construct and nature doesn't follow human constructs.

> For instance, you are
> soon going to be telling us about the poles
> 'flipping' and how horrible the effects were
> 42,000 years ago and how it's going to wreak havoc
> on us all again!! (I'd love it if you proved me
> wrong!)

Apparently they were not too horrible or we wouldn't be here to talk about it.

> I get that Nature cannot be assigned Intent, but
> Nature has a good chance of having caused more
> 'evil' than man has, if 'evil' could be assigned
> units of measure. As in, "Man has caused 72
> trillion tons of Evil, but Nature has caused 11
> quadrillion hectares of suffering, so Nature
> wins!"

I disagree. I don't think of nature as evil, or profoundly immoral and wicked. Those are human traits, based upon human constructs, not nature.

> Again, I can now perceive that you're treating RfM
> like a barroom and you feel it perfectly proper to
> shout whatever you think will get you noticed,
> reasoning optional.

Your perception is obscured because you're so full of shit you can't see straight.

> In your mind, sincerity establishes your bona
> fides and makes everything you say, "truthy".
> It's sorta like truth, but easier to work with!

In my mind, you're full of shit.

> you're so full of shit your eyes are brown. . .
> In my mind, you're full of shit.

And you object when people call you "Scat." Well, Scat, you can't have it both ways.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > you're so full of shit your eyes are brown. . .
> > In my mind, you're full of shit.
>
> And you object when people call you "Scat." Well,
> Scat, you can't have it both ways.


Whatever you say you worthless piece of shit.
Quit stalking me on the internet psycho stalker.

That's why you are so respected around here.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's why you are so respected around here.

Every time you call me scat, I'm calling you a worthless piece of shit, which means the same thing dumbass.

> Every time you call me scat, I'm calling you a
> worthless piece of shit, which means the same
> thing dumbass.

No! You're telling me that "scat" and "shit" are the same thing? I had no idea.

I bet you like your news accompanied by barnyard noises.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lot's Wife Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's why you are so respected around here.
>
> Every time you call me scat, I'm calling you a
> worthless piece of shit, which means the same
> thing dumbass.


Dictionary

/skat/

verb INFORMAL
go away; leave.
"Scat! Leave me alone"

Someone either didn't take a debating class or is just keeping it real, man.


"You're entitled to your ignorant opinion, but you're so full of shit your eyes are brown."   

    (Maybe it's the Neanderthal in me?)


"Dumb point: I was quoting Elder Berry. Ask him."

    (unattributed quotation! Not the worst
    of your follies...)


"2nd Dumbest point: Google is your friend, not me: Evil: profoundly immoral and wicked."

    (we're not friends?  And you don't see that
    'immoral' & 'wicked' are likewise, words of
    'art', with no definitive definitions?)


"No but Trump does and so do you apparently. lol"

    (Throw in some guilt by association, why not?
    I'm not political and have never, other than
    maybe jokingly, made reference to the Don, or
    any politician. But hey, when the wall is
    close enough there in the barroom,  why not see
    what you can get to bounce off it?)


"I don't think acts of nature are 'random'. There is always cause and effect. And I don't think that suffering caused by nature is 'evil' or "profoundly immoral and wicked". Morality is a human construct and nature doesn't follow human constructs."

    (Now you come across as feeble. Maybe there
    is a 'cause & effect' in nature, in that an
    eruption or earthquake can cause a tsunami.
    Or a drought can cause a famine... But who,
    in the midst of mourning, seeks to debate with
    Nature [would she even listen?] about why she
    'caused' the incident? Then you go on to say
    that 'morality' is a human construct. Humans
    'made up' morality! And maybe they made up
    'evil', too, but that had to wait for language
    to be invented.)

"Apparently they were not too horrible or we wouldn't be here to talk about it."

   (The 'they' being the singular event 42,000 years
   ago, of the north and south poles 'flipping.' I
   was aware that we're still here, but the heads up
   is appreciated.)


"Your perception is obscured because you're so full of shit you can't see straight."

    (Having one's eyes full of shit precludes them
    from seeing clearly. Not seeing straight is
    usually associated with drinking, as in a barroom.
    But you've already given yourself an E for effort.)

"In my mind, you're full of shit."

    (Well, it's your mind, fill however you desire.)




Somehow, somewhere, 'shit' became a useful part of your vocabulary, and not just as an exclamation! Do you think that if you use it enough in a conversation, you win?


     

Humberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe it's just me, but it seems that this
> board could use more discussion...

> it seems like> the quality and quantity of the info related to > "recovery from Mormonism" has declined
> significantly over the past few years.

No sir, Humberto,

Not seems, the quality and quantity of info relating to recovery from the cult has hit rock bottom here.

> Not seems, the quality
> and quantity of info
> relating to recovery
> from the cult has hit
> rock bottom here.


I think we have a looong way to go! And I sincerely believe that it is possible that there IS no bottom when it comes to our ability to reach even lower bottoms than you've ever imagined!

Don't sell us short!

elderolddog Wrote:

> I think we have a looong way to go! And I
> sincerely believe that it is possible that there
> IS no bottom when it comes to our ability to reach
> even lower bottoms than you've ever imagined!
>
> Don't sell us short!

Sounds like a threat, you old dog.

Have you a puppy of your own in the game of reaching those "even lower bottoms"?

I’m not sure what it is you’re asking...

Mostly I was trying to be flippant. It’s how I react to someone yelling at me, “HEY!! Don’t step on my lawn, because if you do, I’ll yell at you!”

You got pooped on your lawn. Don't know why anyone but a cat would do that to you. But maybe they are plumes of a feather?

I can't recall your ever having offered anything substantial about the church.

So go ahead: class the joint up.

The ability to contribute criticism so far outstrips the ability to contribute anything but that it is a murder of contrarians cawing so loud that the thread of compassion and support is a little stream giving oh, giving all the way unnoticed here.

Where is Shakespeare in this hour of Kori's need?

Oy! The cast of characters alone...

Zounds!