What if instead of killing people, and injuring himself, Hofmann had simply chosen to blow up his own car? He could have ensured that the "collection" was completely destroyed, or perhaps except for the documents he'd completed, which he could have said happened to not be in the car. If his car just blew up with no one around but the "collection" purportedly in it, he'd have been off the hook to produce it, and it would have looked like TSCC had done it, and we'd probably still have salamanders. And nobody needed to die.

Do we know what his ultimate goal was?

Did he even have one, or was he JoJu'ing it, making it up as he went along?

If he was making it up as he went along, he might have been blind to some of his options.

Someone should ask him!


(how come a Danite has not been dispatched to shut his mouth, forever?)

I read a book about this. I forget the name of it. I dimly recall that the whole mess seemed a bit complicated. And yeah, tragic. For his victims.

Nightingale Wrote:
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> I read a book about this. I forget the name of it.
> I dimly recall that the whole mess seemed a bit
> complicated. And yeah, tragic. For his victims.

Try this trail to the whole mess:

His recent Netflix docuseries “Murder Among the Mormons” begins and ends with the same interview clip. Shannon Flynn, Mark Hofmann’s best friend and closest associate, sits across from an interviewer who urges him to speak to Hofmann’s prolific abilities as a forger.

Weighed down by the memory of Hofmann’s fraud and later murders, Flynn asks the interviewer to allow him to not answer the question, “I don’t want to make a hero out of him.” But ultimately he admits, “He was fantastic.”


Who was this Flynn who considered Markie "Fatastic."

Dig a bit deeper here.

Thereby may hang a revealing tale.

I wonder if Flynn was really such a sycophant, or if clinging to Hofmann is just a way to extend his own 15 minutes of fame. The "higher" he manages to pump up Hofmann, the more impressive his brush with "fame" is.

Everything about that interview gave off that vibe from Flynn, didn't it?

Nightingale Wrote:
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> I read a book about this. I forget the name of it.
> I dimly recall that the whole mess seemed a bit
> complicated. And yeah, tragic. For his victims.
The book was"The Mormon Murders"

Oh yes. Thanks. Found it still in my bookcase.

Criminal masterminds don't always master their minds and think through every detail of what they are masterfully minding....that's why they get caught.

There are different kinds of crime, and facility with one does not imply competence with another.

Hopefully, not many become competent at murder!

This is true! And sometimes people even mistake dumb luck for competence.

By coincidence, last night, my daughters and I ended up watching several Forensics Files episodes, and they featured a series of "black widow" spousal murders in which husbands and wives repeated their patterns of behavior (e.g. faked suicides, poisoning, etc), until the pattern didn't work and they were caught. And then the pattern made it relatively easy to prove the previous cases. And sometimes it was just dumb luck that let them avoid earlier detection! So, sometimes criminals aren't "good" so much as they're just lucky.

...creating the tangental question, What scams have we been subject to that we haven't the slightest idea took place?


If we're honest, it's not a question that can be answered.

If a scam occurs in the woods but no one is around to see it, did it really happen?

It depends where the woods are!

Scams in the woods are the worst. This is why I no longer have dealings with beavers. "Nice meadow you've got here. Be a shame if someone dammed the creek and flooded it."

Hah! I'd have thought terrorist beavers blew dams up!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2021 05:22PM by Lot's Wife.

Many scams are not reported because victims weren't aware they were fleeced ("The Sting"), but also because they are too embarrassed to admit it to family and the authorities.

The Sting:

an all-time Great, clearly a classic.

I should get or rent a copy!!

Hofmann was on the hook for hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Simply destroying the documents would not have removed the debt. I believe he was trying to buy time. By delaying the church meetings until the sale of the Oath of a Free Man had gone through he could have payed back the loan to Rust and others and then not needed to produce the McClellan collection.

Of course the multiple mistakes he made on other documents would have eventually caught up to him and blown his whole scam wide open. (A glaring example is the "Betsy Ross" letter. Hofmann took a legitimate letter from the time period signed simply Betsy and added Ross. Problem is Betsy had remarried at the time and didn't use the surname of Ross at the time)

Heartless Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hofmann was on the hook for hundreds of thousands
> of dollars.
> Simply destroying the documents would not have
> removed the debt. I believe he was trying to buy
> time. By delaying the church meetings until the
> sale of the Oath of a Free Man had gone through he
> could have payed back the loan to Rust and others
> and then not needed to produce the McClellan
> collection.

I believe this is exactly right.

Was he indebted to Christensen? Regardless, I don't think killing Christensen would have wiped out the debt (Hofmann would likely still owe Christensen's business or his estate).

From what I understand, Christensen was leaning on him to produce the bogus documents. Pretending to destroy them by blowing up his car would have helped to a certain degree: "sorry, Steve, they're gone" (shrugs shoulders). He'd still be in debt but perhaps the immediate pressure would have been off while some of his other [bogus] doc's were pending sale.

IOW, I don't think killing Christensen really solved the overarching problems.

Perhaps Christensen as target was more primal thinking: "you're gonna reveal me as a fraud, so I'm gonna take you down first."

As others noted above, it seems like there wasn't a long range plan for this.


Edited to say: just re-read Heartless post. Yeah, I think he was trying to buy time. I just don't think killing anyone was necessary to do so. Producing the McLellin Collection seems to have been his most immediate problem, and faking their destruction would have staved that off for a time. It would have also cast suspicion on TSCC, which to some degree seems to be in keeping with his M.O.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2021 02:42PM by Gordon B. Stinky.

And it all hinged on his stupidity in keeping a simple invoice in the name of Mark Hansen.

Having a plate created by a plate maker with the Oath Of A Freeman on it wasn't too bright either.

Yes, this also seems like something that would have been easily undone. Imagine if you're the plate maker, and you hear that someone recently sold a "found" original Oath of a Freeman! Oh, and he looks just like "Mark Hansen." Hmmm...

Perhaps he needed the receipt for his tax return! ;)

he is a MURDERER screw him

Gordon B. Stinky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if instead of killing people, and injuring
> himself, Hofmann had simply chosen to blow up his
> own car? He could have ensured that the
> "collection" was completely destroyed, or perhaps
> except for the documents he'd completed, which he
> could have said happened to not be in the car. If
> his car just blew up with no one around but the
> "collection" purportedly in it, he'd have been off
> the hook to produce it, and it would have looked
> like TSCC had done it, and we'd probably still
> have salamanders. And nobody needed to die.

I think the 'invisible hand' OF Mormon Leadership kept the legal prosecution out of the hands of the Feds (deaths by explosive devices);

I don't think the Feds would have protected ChurchCo & Wrinkley the way that local prosecutors did, there was Plenty of dirt/responsibility to go around this matter.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2021 08:21PM by GNPE.