Maybe the gospel is like LOTR in more ways than one. The general authorities have the ring of power and they like it. That’s why they run the church like a business, not a religion. In light of this, maybe they actually do believe. They have to. Wearing that ring does mess with your head.

They seem to be arrogant windbags.

There might be a few (if they took the time to get to know people) who are decent, but I think most are condescending assholes who have nothing but disdain for mankind.

Most of them have got their place because of loyalty. They are company men. In any business it's rough to climb the corporate ladder. The younger men must kiss ass to older men. They must never disagree with them, hold all their political views all the time.

But then these same men expect the same from the underlings, the trouble is that the underlings don't usually want to kiss ass the same way, so there is conflict and hurt feelings.

Jeffrey Holland told me, when he was a newly appointed Apostle, that he did not have control of his time. He was inundated by demands by more senior apostles.

With his knowledge of the Book of Mormon, he definitely knows the church is not true. He is in it for power. He is a wilful deceiver.

Holland also strikes me as one of the least happy of the GAs. I think not only is he a willful deceiver, he knows the deceit is not working very well.

He and Oaks are both smart enough to see the con, but Oaks was more successful at selling his soul.

Thank you for that. The G.A.s are one thing, but I have always seen Oaks as actually evil. Bednar is biting his heels, but Oaks is in a league of his own. There is a clarity about his actions and the others have a trace of fog in theirs.

Exactly. Oaks has a clarity about his actions. I'm stealing that phrase. :)

I feel a little sorry for Holland. Not much, but a little. He seems to genuinely be suffering. If Oaks is suffering, he intends to take us all down with him. Bednar is not the same as Oaks. It may simply be lack of talent. I think his heart is in the same place, but he doesn't quite have the skill set Oaks does.

Holland can end his suffering any time he wants.

Hello, RfM'ers, my name is Jeff Holland and I just turned in my resignation. It's a huge weight off my shoulders to finally be free of playing that corporate game and lying to myself. I'm sorry for all those things I said when I was mormon. And you can call me 'jowls'--it's kinda funny."

Hi, Tom, nice to hear from you! I hope that all is well.

Yes, all is well thanks.

Gerontocracy is cronyism at its finest.

The Mormon church is a is a big machine to get caught up in. There are three reactions to this. Stay stuck spinning around, get the hell out, or turn it to your advantage.

Climbing to the top comes with the perk of seductive power, but I think more so is the stroking of the ego. Most of us don't need or crave that much adulation--a bit here and there will do, but there is a "type" that needs massive amounts and those men at the top of the Mormon heap are that TYPE in spades. My brother's talent is church. He is virtuoso at church. He gets his ego fix from church and for being seen as powerful. Everyone calls him President rather than his name and he gets moist when they do. I wonder how he feels now that he has stalled near the top after making it up so high.

And even though so many get the S.A. now, it's still only the G.A.s who can bequeath that ultimate blessing. I'm sure when they do and get a fix from their own supposed magnanimity that it works as well as the little blue pill.

I wonder if they see their power waning? Because I do. Or if their core group of sycophants is enough?

The POWER, and, THE GLORY! The two go hand in hand. Without the glory it's just like lettuce without the ranch dressing.

Food is just a vehicle for Ranch Dressing. :)

Funny thing is they don't really have any power. None of the church leaders have power. I wish I'd realized that when I was a member, especially as a young person. I thought I had to do their bidding and answer all questions, no matter how personal and embarrassing. I thought I had to say yes to everything asked of me. I wish someone, especially my mother, had told me I could say no to their requests and that I didn't have to answer their questions - - that they had no authority over me.

Money is power. I suppose with the $100 billion stash backing them up, the GAs have some power over people and circumstances.

That mind warping conditioning runs deep. When a child sees his parent's saying "how high? and w/ a twist or jump real high?" to a church authority figure, that stays w/ a young un. Long story short, our family went through something that caused me to lose nearly all respect, admiration, and belief in their "powers." It was incredibly freeing, and I'll never forget the look on a bishop's or Stk PRez face when I basically told em' to piss off. Meaning, "Nah, I don't think we'll stop playing BB in the gym quite yet, hold on, games almost over." Or the equivalent. They would just look at me like a penis growing out of my forehead.

They tried to hammer me down, w/ admonitions and subtle threats. But, I also lost the self-guilt trip mechanism at that time. The Japanese have a saying, paraphrasing: "The nail that sticks out, gets hammered down." And they tried, now to the ever loving point. The only power they possess is what we give them. I see the posts, "TBM neighbor questioned me at the store, and I said ......." As if replaying it over and over, what could've, should've been said, yet in actuality, agonizing. It's definitely easier said than done. All the conditioning geared toward on-demand explaining, justifying, rationalizing, confessing. Theres nothing more liberating than simple, matter of fact truth. Of course, no explanation is owed. But, for me, a brief, polite explanation works best. "I don't believe the Church is true. Richard Bushman said it best, and recent admissions from the Church are a good start, but too little too late for me. I quote Bushman's fireside answer to a question.

Paraphrasing: "The sugar-coated, traditional version of church history taught from the pulpit isn't true. It isn't sustainable. It will be hard for some members, but it has to change, or the church will be on very shaky ground indeed."

Because 90% of my friends and family have never heard a respected church dude utter such words, so honestly, powerfully, matter of factly. If they mention being conned or tricked by anti info, I will add: "The only info I research is found in Church sources, BYU library etc, I don't know anyone who has left that has studied anything but those verifiable, confirmable church sources." We're hardwired to win the argument or convince someone, in addition to justifying how "right" we are. I've wandered from the original point a bit, but stream o' consciousness rantage is how I roll. Stay Frosty, Stay Aerodynamic. DS

Of course it is about power!!
Was there ever any doubt?

Would these GAs keep getting promoted in a corporation if they kept losing customers? I think yes if the corporation keeps getting richer overall.

It is more about power, loyalty and financial power. Meanwhile, the sheep fawn over them and hand over their time and money. They spend a lifetime in a religion and all they get is a T shirt promising power in an afterlife.

And they have to buy the T-shirt, and it has holes in it.

Why does she always have that “Now is the day of my power” look on her face?

In the old days. I'd say before Kimball. May be wrong. There were only about 26 general authorities. The first presidency, apostles, presiding patriarch, seven presidents of the 70 and the presiding bishopric.

Many of these sat on various board of directors and earned cash by doing so.

I don't remember it being as much of a cult of personality as it is today. But they definitely had financial power and political and business power.

J Golden Kimball said there were two ways to be a general authority. Revelation and relation and if he hadn't been Heber Kimball's son he never would have amounted to much in the church.

So definitely maintaining power to certain royal families.

I'd say the Cult of Personality reached its greatest heights during the JS and BY years. Taylor had some charisma, but then the level of perceived "leadership" never reached the high watermark again. Some prophets were more influential than others--McKay comes to mind--but power was generally more institutionalized and prestige less important.

What has happened since is a different phenomenon: corporatization. From the era of Kimball onward responsibility has grown increasingly diffused among various prophets, the Q12, the PR department, the law firms, etc. Now we talk about Nelson and Monson and others as if they are senescent men who don't wield that much power. We are like Diogenes searching for one leader who will take responsibility.

I can't imagine a system more dissimilar to the reign of the early prophets.

The Pizazz factor has steadily fizzled decade after decade diluting Joseph and Brigham's legacies of, respectively, charisma and brute strength.

And now Dusty Rusty has pedal to the metal in a race to make it as generic as possible as fast as possible. He plans to dumb down the church in a few years as much as ten other Prophets did in a century.

Aha!

Is the mormon church involved in one of them there races to the bottom?

Yes. Russ and Wendy are even leaving Boris and Natasha in the dust.

Being fawned over and treated like a rock star/deity must certainly stroke the ego.

I think it is a combination of several things.

I have always maintained that when one gets to the point of being a senior Q15, their minds have become severely warped. We know that when people are isolated from outside influences, they quickly become entrenched in an alternate reality. This is why celebrities often behave in bizarre fashion, they have lived in a bubble surrounded publicists, assistants, yes men/yes women, and "friends" who desperately want to be close to the rich and famous. They lose touch with the real world. The Q15 live in this type of bubble. They are surrounded by people, such as secretaries, assistants, family members, and other church leaders, who worship them as prophets who speak with and for God. When they travel, they are always met with adoring fans who hang on their every word and action. That kind of environment messes with a person in a deep and harmful way. In the case of the top 3 members of the Q15, Nelson, Oaks, and Ballard, they have been entrenched in this kind of environment for over 35 years. There is no way these guys have any sense of reality. I truly believe these guys have become delusional and really believe they are speaking with and for God. They may know of the real history and the issues, but my guess is that they don't really view it as being important in the grand scheme of things because in their minds, they really are prophets.

Now I think the kind of behavior and drive that gets them to the point of being selected as a Q15 is all about the power. But eventually the environment they live in as a member of the Q15 messes with them so much that mixed in with the desire for power is an actual belief that they are what they publicly profess to being.

I think you are right, but I wonder if the covid pandemic - which they did not foresee - has thrown them off a bit. I think they can now see how unimportant and powerless they really are. It must be such a blow to their spiritual egos to give talks in the vast conference center with no audience and no Motab choir. It must be humbling to stay at home and not be surrounded by adoring fans wherever they go. Maybe they can see how limited their powers are and it has brought them back to reality.

Maybe when they are feeling down they can look at the $100 billion stash to perk themselves up again.