In high school I was known as being "smart". I worried about whether or not I was the "smartest". The valedictorian got higher grades than I did. Was he smarter than I was? My brother got a higher standardized test score than I did. Was he smarter than I was?

Now that we are middle-aged, both my classmate and brother are more financially successful than I am. The casual observer might say that this means they are smarter. However, I believe that I am smarter than they are, according to the most basic definition of the word. Yay! I won the "who-is-smarter" contest!

Any believer who has reached middle age and hasn't figured out that Mormonism is not true cannot be called smart in any full or profound sense.

Donald Hoffman has the answer to which you seek:

https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/does-reality-exist?rebelltitem=2#rebelltitem2

Using evolutionary game theory, Hoffman and his collaborators created computer simulations to observe how "truth strategies" (which see objective reality as is) compared with "pay-off strategies" (which focus on survival value). The simulations put organisms in an environment with a resource necessary to survival but only in Goldilocks proportions.

Consider water. Too much water, the organism drowns. Too little, it dies of thirst. Between these extremes, the organism slakes its thirst and lives on to breed another day.

Truth-strategy organisms who see the water level on a color scale — from red for low to green for high — see the reality of the water level. However, they don't know whether the water level is high enough to kill them. Pay-off-strategy organisms, conversely, simply see red when water levels would kill them and green for levels that won't. They are better equipped to survive.

"[E]volution ruthlessly selects against truth strategies and for pay-off strategies," writes Hoffman. "An organism that sees objective reality is always less fit than an organism of equal complexity that sees fitness pay-offs. Seeing objective reality will make you extinct."

Since humans aren't extinct, the simulation suggests we see an approximation of reality that shows us what we need to see, not how things really are.

All of that said, I agree with the notion that seeing things for what they really are does pay off. I would add that knowing the true nature of things means that organisms can thrive rather than just survive until they dominate an ecosystem.

My life did get better once I understood the lie I was living in. I feel like I'm thriving more now that I'm not using magical thinking while making decisions in my life.

Sometimes it takes a lot of brain power to do the mental gymnastics and come up with seemingly plausible explanations for different questions.

People on the other end of the scale don’t ask difficult questions.

I suppose I’m in the middle. I ask questions, but eventually trying to find a way to make it work was too much effort.

I know some very intelligent middle aged Mormons.
My best friend is a Mormon ER Dr, who is very successful. My wife’s OBGYN who delivered 3/4 of our kids is Uber Mormon and I’d trust him with my kids lives. He was my Bishop when I resigned, which made it tough.
I know a lot of other intelligent professionals who are Mormon. It’s not a matter of intelligence, it’s a matter of intelligent people using their brilliant minds to justify remaining Mormon, because admitting it’s a fraud would be disastrous for their marriages, their families, their careers, the list goes on.

I believe it’s more a lack of personal integrity than lack of smarts that keeps people in.

Disagree. I did what I thought was right until I didn't think it any more.

I have three TBM brothers who I trust completely as wonderful, trustworthy humans.

It might be true in some cases, but not most.

men who are still mormon. I worked with them in my 20s. They were Ph.D.s in chemistry and science. They are not your typical mormons. They still think I'm great and support me in my decisions.

I don't understand why some people choose not to leave.

Myself, I left over life experience. I didn't study my way out. I just said on another thread that the leaders proved they were not men of God by how they handled my situation. They proved to me they had no answers for my situation. Eventually, my brain was screaming too loud at me to try to pretend any longer.

Now I see my daughter trying to do the same thing I was trying to do--to have my family forever. She remembers us being happy back when we were going to church and then all hell broke loose when her father left us as he is gay. She has to fix it. Or so she thinks. I know it confuses her. She is very intelligent.

Are there middle-aged ex-mormons who can truly be called dumb? I mean, besides me?


Edited show just how dumb I am!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2021 08:31PM by elderolddog.

We love the edited show.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are there middle-aged ex-mormons who can truly be
> called dumb? I mean, besides me?
>
>
> Edited show just how dumb I am!


Please define your terms

middle-age & 'dumb'

> Please define your terms
>
> middle-age & 'dumb'


About 500 A.D. to about June 14, 1502 A.D.

'Dumb' is when you are trying to do something you don't know how to do, the point that you don't even know when you do it right.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 'Dumb' is when you are trying to do something you
> don't know how to do, the point that you don't
> even know when you do it right.

Please don’t elaborate



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2021 02:52AM by Lot's Wife.

I think my mother was smart enough to know, but too spineless to act on it. Goes for a sibling or two as well. Is surrender dumb or weak?

I see a lot of that. Risk/benefit assessment?

What is the difference between, smart vs being honest with one's self?

Is compartmentalizing integrity a social survival technique that has nothing to do with intelligence? Does it take smarts to disregard information in order to get what you really want?

This is why BKP said some truths are not very useful.

Belief IMO does not correlate with itelect, not when uv been raised a certain way. When u believe and are emotionally tied to something u just caint see the truth.

Look at all the things people do in the name of belief, storm the capital, lol, drink poisen coolaid, give up ur wife and sex to David Koresh, dive air planes into ships, think not drinking coffee or tea will save u. Now I say how could I not see that a cup of coffee has nothing to do with anything. I had to do with being emotionally tied in, and they said so I guess its so.

I know many very smart people who are true believers, yes they could figure out but emotions won't let them.

Jehova witness will let a child die b4 it will let them get a blood transfusion.

I say belief will lead u from the truth, fact will take u to the truth.
When a person believes something u just cant penatrate it.

To partially address the question, read Haidt's book "The Happiness Hypothesis".

"The mind is divided into parts that sometimes conflict. Like a rider on the back of an elephant, the conscious, reasoning part of the mind has only limited control of what the elephant does."

In our first neighborhood we had a couple who were not only Mr/Mrs Mormon but obviously had some money and very smart. (he was an attorney). He contacted me 20 years later, he was divorced and selling cars (really). Turns out his wife was gay and he didn't believe in the LDS religion anymore. We kept in touch and he starting practicing law again in Utah where he had met a client's wife during a divorce. He was still very very smart. Anyway,he dates this woman and they announce no sex until married and they were going to get married in the temple. They were both in their early 50s. After two years of dating, I told him, "this isn't a good sign, you haven't had sex for two years"? He assured me he knew what he was doing. Two years later, they are divorced. Turns out she was on lithium. He doesn't believe in LDS religion anymore. I talk to him occasionally and he is still very very smart...

> He assured me he knew what he was doing.
> Two years later, they are divorced. Turns
> out she was on lithium.

I'm on lithium too. You seem to be implying that mental health treatment is bad.

He's implying that the divorce is explained by her mental illness which is complete sh**.

@nli today
<long exhale>I'm not implying anything.

And frankly, what does being smart have to do with finding a spouse or with later figuring out that one is incompatible with one's spouse?

When the irrelevant details are removed, I think your story boils down to: "I knew a guy who went through two divorces." *shrug*

Tyson

so True!

I think we're (not me, of course!)

suggesting that being 'smart' links all thought processes together, That Just Ain't So!!

good lawyers are able to discern & distinguish between similar appearing thoughts, documents & legal precedence, that's why they're highly paid.

a smart attorney might be terrible at making courtroom presentations, but that's not nearly all of their work.

our emotional selves are quite a different matter.

Depends on your definition of “smart.” I think Yes, by the common acceptance of the meaning. However, they can be extremely smart and extremely gullible at the same time.

Thank you NormaRae. Some people are putting too much into this post.

How many hours a week does he spend in church duties?

They're certainly not street-smart.

I hear this topic come up a lot.

My answer is that smart people can be found in every religion and cult, no matter how wacky the cult or religion might be.

Why? Because humans, like animals, are tribal creatures. They are social creatures and instinctually biased FOR their tribe/team.
They are not interested in the truth if the truth goes against their team/tribe.

Some might leave their team/tribe if the team/tribe makes their life miserable. An even smaller percentage of the tribe members leave because deep thinkers and/or value the truth no matter what the conclusions result in, even if the truth goes against the team/tribe. Most humans don't like to go against the grain and prefer to prioritize the team/tribe over the truth. Unfortunately, like many other pack animals, most humans instinctually follow their biases over the truth.

Bias has a powerful hold on most human beings. Most humans don't want truth if it goes against their emotionally invested preconceived notions.