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Posted by: Eric3 ( )
Date: April 05, 2021 06:22PM

"With tens of thousands of full-time missionaries released or reassigned last year, Convert baptisms plunged to 125,930, down from 248,835 in 2019"

I'm guessing:

1. It's hard to do hard sell over Zoom.

2. But most convert baptisms never resulted in real members in the first place.

3. So this is not as big as it looks.

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: April 05, 2021 07:40PM

I find that 65440 babies were blessed vs 94266 previously.

Obviously the church counts members from birth.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 05, 2021 09:27PM

> Obviously the church counts
> members from birth.

and in many instances, way after they died.

How is that?

Let's say I died early last week. (I didn't; this is just supposition...) The church does NOT have worldwide volunteers scouring their respective coroner's offices, looking to match death certificates with inactive members of the church. They could, but why would they, since this helps their numbers game.

So when I died last week, who would have alerted the church to move me from "Hardcore Inactive" to "low key dead"? No one that's who! (Not true, but not every inactive has a TBM close relative who would immediately rat me out.)

All those early 1980s Japanese 90-minute conversions, thousands a month... All those people are still members and will be until they age out, at 111 years of age. Since most of them were young adults, they're good for another 50 years on the church's membership rolls.

The Mormon Church, crookedly run since Joseph Smith claimed he couldn'

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: April 05, 2021 11:10PM

Covid seems to be doing a lot more than just putting a dent in recruiting for the mormon church. It seems to be curing all kinds of common diseases, even if it's killing many others at the same time. If you compare the 2019 causes of death statistics to the 2020 causes of death statistics, you'll likely see that deaths from cancer are down, kidney disease is down. Covid even seems to in some cases cure car wrecks, and of course pneumonia.

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Posted by: tumwater ( )
Date: April 05, 2021 11:31PM

What I read between your lines, no matter what your medical condition, if you had COVID, when you died it was attributed to COVID.

A person having cancer and given a few weeks to live,and a minute amount of COVID, then COVID was cause of death.

That train of reasoning would show that all other causes of death would be down and COVID going thru the roof.

Look at the ages of the dying, a vast majority were elderly and already at deaths door.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2021 11:34PM by tumwater.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 05, 2021 11:44PM

Yes, that is how it is done.

If a person has cancer but is killed by a car, s/he goes down on the records as killed by a car.

If a person has heart disease but dies from asphyxiation by cop, s/he goes down as murdered.

If a person is 104 but dies from a bullet to the head, s/he was killed by the bullet.

I seriously don't think it is a good idea to say, "well, s/he was old and was going to die soon anyway." Legally, politically, and morally, that's not a winning argument.

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Posted by: Eric3 ( )
Date: April 07, 2021 06:15PM

People with underlying illnesses also die from COVID.

“That does not mean that someone who has hypertension or diabetes who dies of Covid didn’t die of Covid-19. They did,” -- Dr, Fauci

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 07, 2021 06:21PM


If that logic were not employed, no killer or disease would ever be the cause of death. For all who who were born will eventually succumb to old age if nothing else, so every person was at every moment "already dying."

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: April 05, 2021 11:50PM

Here ya go, actual data, as opposed to pulling something out of, um, thin air:

Some highlights you may find informative:

total deaths:
2019 2,854,838 2020 3,358,814

Heart disease
2019 659,041...2020 690,882

2019 599,601...2020 598,932

...............2020 345,323

flu and pneumonia
2019 49783.....2020..53,495

unintentional injury (includes car wrecks0
2019 173,040...2020 192,176

kidney disease

So the only one you guessed right on was cancer, and that just barely.

Suicides were down 7%. They must not have counted suicide by ventilator. I bet they counted those as covid deaths.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 05, 2021 11:54PM

I'm surprised there weren't fewer deaths by flu/pneumonia, since more people were staying home, wearing masks, social distancing, etc. I would also think deaths from unintentional injury/car wrecks would be down as well due to people being home more.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: April 06, 2021 12:01AM

I understand vehicle deaths were actually up because there were more high-velocity accidents because the roads were less crowded. I was doing 75 a few times and was passed like I was parked.

BTW, the numbers from the JAMA article are provisional. It usually takes CDC a couple of years to release final numbers on causes of death. They probably won't change by much.

edit: I too was surprised by flu/pneumonia deaths. It may be that some of the pneumonia deaths were actually misdiagnosed covid. I think the resolution of questions like that is what takes CDC years to release final figures. Pneumonia is actually a symptom that can have various causes.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2021 12:10AM by Brother Of Jerry.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: April 06, 2021 11:54AM

If you want to prolong your crusade you utilize whatever information that you can slant toward your cause

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Posted by: Eric3 ( )
Date: April 07, 2021 06:19PM

I think that's a good insight!

They can blame COVID for lower recruiting.

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