who has the video?

I'm lazy when it comes to listening to GC. Maybe a mormon facebook forum could provide the reference to the 'Lazy learners'

I'm curious as well as to what that might be :)

Didn't watch, but "lazy learners" is sooooooo Mormon I laughed just reading that. Their specialty is to make anything your fault and that phrase is a golden addition to their lexicon.

"C'mon Brothers and Sisters. Let's put some elbow grease behind doubting your doubts."

Took me 23 years to learn Mormonism was one big lie. I guess that makes me lazy.

Exactly.

It also comes off as Orwellian to me. You have to avoid learning a lot to stay in, IMO. Once you study, you can't undo what you know. There's nothing lazy about studying our way out.

As we frequently see, they accuse others of doing what they are guilty of doing themselves. It's a calculated measure usually. Sometimes they simply don't bother to think about how their criticisms of others better applies to what they are doing themselves.

Mormons are so virtuoso at the hypocrisy that I'm surprised it isn't a class at BYU.

What do you think the religion classes are? Not only do they teach it, it is required of all undergraduates.

misplaced



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2021 03:02PM by Brother Of Jerry.

Haha. Yes. And, it was like Sunday School in the middle of the week it was. You couldn't run. You couldn't hide. All Mormon all the time.

I considered transferring but when I realized how much the loss of the religion credits would cost me, I stuck it out.

I think it takes the church almost a week to release the printed words. I believe their media dogs are hunting the web (like this place and others) to hear what faux pas may have been uttered. It gives the church time to smooth out the bumps and make some of their harsh words appear to be "kind".

The most egregious example of a speaker's 'divine inspiration' being overruled upon further consideration (a 'more divine inspiration'?) is Ronald E. Poelman's 1984 (zouds! how remarkable that this reworking took place that year...) Conference talk.

It was not only rewritten before being published in the Improvement Era, but also re-videoed, complete with a cough-track, and then the original and the re-do were spliced together.

It's what Jesus wanted, so ... And you can't be blaming Jesus or Holy McGhost for allowing the flawed original to be delivered! They can't be everywhere you know. What? They can!? But then... Now I'm confused!

https://sunstonemagazine.com/elder-poelmans-most-famous-speech/

The $$$$$$$ that tithe-payers sacrificed to donate Won't be wasted on editing or re-recording any of my conference talks, speeches, or remarks, for that I am PROUD!

https://youtu.be/hVBP-DnE9M8

Lazy learners and lax disciples doubt this church.

Name calling is always a favorite go-to for church leadership. Maybe we could refer to Rusty as being a part of the "Lazy Leadership." I mean really, where have they been during the pandemic? Home staying safe? Isn't it a leader's job to lead?

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Name calling is always a favorite go-to for church
> leadership. Maybe we could refer to Rusty as being
> a part of the "Lazy Leadership." I mean really,
> where have they been during the pandemic? Home
> staying safe? Isn't it a leader's job to lead?

His COVID 'leadership' was jumping the vax line ahead of nearly everyone else in Utah & the IMW;
maybe DJT was the only one ahead of him.

Lazy Leadership! Nailed it. Approaching Zombie status. Hahahaha ha.

He nailed it. You have an authoritarian dogmatic organization and you will have the conformity and coherence you want but will sacrifice much in the way of people who aren't into that level of control.

Eastern wisdom thought was probably born in much conformity. There is a way to participate for many in some of its almost philosophical ideals and ideas.

The razor's edge. Berating the faithful is a coercive tactic and not a persuasive one. Little wisdom coming from a "prophet." An old fool with no new tricks, just more not sparing the rod to get his follower's to embrace it. Hold fast to the rod with which you are beaten.

I reckon I'm a "Lazy Learner" when I found out the easy way to know the Book of Mormon is a made up mess: The very first word in the first sentence in the first paragraph.

You don't have to go further than that. :)

So if you consult sources other than what the church tells you to consult that makes you a lazy learner?
Danged if that doesn't sound cult like.

to (just?) me, it opened the trap door to any claimed prestige or dignity he might have otherwise had or claimed or aspired to.


sic transit gloria mundi



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2021 11:50AM by GNPE.

The appropriate response might be, "I know you are, but what am I?"

I thought we apostates were notorious for studying our way out of the church.

Meanwhile the brethren restricted lessons to only what was in the manuals.

The unofficial motto of the church is "We have all the answers as long as you don't ask questions."

> The unofficial motto of the
> church is "We have all the
> answers as long as you don't
> ask questions."


Love it!

You would, you Lazy Learner!

I actually didn't study my way out of the church. The leaders proved to me that they had no discernment, no empathy, not caring, no answers. I'm lazy because I didn't study and I also didn't work hard enough to change someone gay to straight. I gave up.

Oh well! If that makes me lazy, so be it. Lazy apostate adulteress.

cl2notloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I actually didn't study my way out of the church.
> The leaders proved to me that they had no
> discernment, no empathy, not caring, no answers.

You are the one with discernment. "Study" doesn't have to be literal. You mulled things over and left a terrible situation. I don't consider that lazy!



> I'm lazy because I didn't study and I also didn't
> work hard enough to change someone gay to
> straight. I gave up.

Well, that would be one tough assignment!


> Oh well! If that makes me lazy, so be it. Lazy
> apostate adulteress.

I've seen others here claim the negatives that church leaders/members spew about those who renounce their membership and wear them like a badge of honour. I think your 'so be it" fits in with that category.

Your Mormon experience has been a long and most miserable one in many ways (and they made it so) yet you have found your own path and triumphed. I hope, and believe, that the self-descriptions you use are done with irony. That's a great way of punching back.

As time goes by I feel even more embarrassment about having been a "convert" as an adult. I can almost not believe I was so careless as to get involved to the point of baptism. The only good thing I can say is that I headed for the exit not long after so at least didn't compound my error. The worst they said about me (that I was aware of) was that I needed a psychologist to figure out what my problem was (as I've mentioned here before). I believed it would help and attended one appointment. Sure, he helped. He pounded the last nail into the LDS coffin. As I left his office after a most unpleasant session (conducted while he was eating his bag lunch and complicated by his brusque manner and unhelpful comments) I realized I could Just. Leave. That was easy for me as a new "convert" with no family in and few friends. I laugh to be included with the "lazy" bunch. We're the ones who asked questions to which there were no satisfactory answers.

I don't care what they call me. Those who mindlessly conform are the ones to whom I'd attribute negative characteristics, if I were so inclined. But mostly I feel sorry for those caught up in a questionable organization from birth or through long-time close association. The tentacles tend to get in the way of them asking questions and seeking answers.

The leaders calling out "lazy" people is only the latest in their continuing onslaught against non-conformists and demonstrates their arrogance and desperation. It's not lazy to think for oneself and make good decisions for one's own best life. The old guys at the top of the Mormon Church are the lazy ones, trapped in a bubble they didn't even choose for themselves and not interested in research or learning, which is so self-evident from their repeated putrid offerings from on high. Their flock is starving for lack of inspiration, spontaneity and new experiences, being stuck in the same rut for their lifetimes with no freedom of choice (unless they wake up to other possibilities).

Lazy is as lazy does said someone famous a while back. I think. Or something like that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2021 03:15PM by Nightingale.

I do use it tongue in cheek. I don't mind at all being called those names as I know the truth. I so love not having to live up to their expectations. Hey mormons, come live my life and then tell me again I'm lazy.

I love how you put this: "I realized I could Just. Leave."

It is really freeing when you realize they have no hold over you any longer. I wasn't going to resign, but did to prove a point to my daughter. It was one of the best things I've ever done for myself.

cl2notloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do use it tongue in cheek. I don't mind at all
> being called those names as I know the truth.

Great way of looking at it. Whatever someone says that response: "I know the truth" is amazing. Succinct. And correct.



> Hey mormons, come live my life and
> then tell me again I'm lazy.

Ha. Good answer.



> I love how you put this: "I realized I could
> Just. Leave."

It's embarrassing to be an adult convert. Like, are you kidding that you couldn't tell it was an astonishingly poor decision to leap into their font. Especially being ignorant of history, doctrine, baggage and complete, ongoing lack of inspiration.



> It is really freeing when you realize they have no
> hold over you any longer.

Many outsiders think it's so obviously not a positive organization that it's amazing BICs and especially prospective converts don't see it straight away. For those caught up in it, in whichever fashion that occurs, it can be a process, rather than an instant realization, to come to the ultimately obvious conclusion that you can just leave. It can be especially tough for BICs, and even more so for those who were most devoted, with all that Mormon stuff rattling 'round in their heads, to decide to get out. They have a heavy price to pay, often losing family, having to rid their brains of the Mormon doctrine with which they were inundated throughout their formative years and beyond, as well as the life-changing complications if they are married and their spouse is still a believer. I was fortunate, I realized after the fact, that even though I was pretty intense about learning the doctrine it was an elusive beast, up here in Canada at least, where I wasn't even allowed to frequent the (small) church library ("it's only for teachers"). That makes me feel doubly stupid for leaping into the font, awaiting enlightenment that, needless to say, never arrived.

Except the eventual enlightenment that I didn't need to stay. It was a big deal for me to go back on a promise - until I asked myself what did I promise? I didn't even know! So I was clueless to ever get involved and especially font-i-fized but at least I didn't compound the error by sticking around too long.


> It [resignation] was one of the best things I've ever done for myself.

I have wondered a few times if I should bother. Before I just didn't want to stir the sleeping beast. But now I basically just don't really care.

I only think about it when I occasionally read something here about doing it. Pretty much I have voted with my feet and that should be obvious. With no family in and no Mormon pals, I don't really feel a need to make anything official. I have just faded off into the sunset. I quite like it that way.

Where are you in Canada? As for myself, I currently live in Bowness, Calgary, Alberta.

Near Beautiful Vancouver in BC. Hello to a fellow Cdn!

They tell you what you want to hear and not the truth. Myself, I had to see the ugly underbelly of mormonism to figure it out and it took me many more years as we got married in the temple and then we were active for about 8 years after we got married, always questioning, but this was what we had lived for over 30 years. Maybe we were wrong?

I told my nonmo boyfriend (who I dated at 20 and he knew how devout I was) that after my husband left, I would go to church sometimes and sit on the sofa in the foyer during SM trying to find what I had found there before. He said that brought tears to his eyes having known me before. I'd go in late and leave early so they wouldn't see me and offer me a calling (and they did a few times like counselor in young womens when I was INACTIVE for several years--I turned it down). It took me 23 years from the time I found out he is gay until I realized the truth.

One day I was walking at the track. I've told this story many times. My friend's daughter was getting married and when problems would arise in her planned wedding, she would say, "The church is still true, so why does it matter?" As I was walking at the track, I realized IT MATTERED TO ME. And that was it. I was FINALLY done. I wrote about it in my journal. I was the devout child in my family and my parents were in shock, but they knew me and they'd watched my life fall apart. They were devastated by what happened to me. And since they weren't the disgustingly TBM people that some of my extended family is, they understood. Many family members were supportive. My aunt whose husband had been a stake president was very supportive. She and I were close. She used to tell me her husband was more fun before he found religion. He was not active mormon until he was in his 50s.

You were searching for answers. We want answers. I've come to the realization that I don't NEED answers as there is no way to know anything for sure. I have my own set of beliefs that come from life experience.

As for resigning. Only do it if you feel so moved to do so. I just sent a short e-mail (I didn't have my membership number) and I got a reply 3 days later. The bishop showed up about 2 days later (he was a good friend and told me he wouldn't try to talk me out of it as he had watched some of what I've been through). My boyfriend was concerned because of how devout I was and he sent me a bunch of e-mails where I had said I'd never resign. He thought I'd fall apart as I tend to do that a lot. Nope. It was a HUGE LOAD off my mind. My nephews and niece, my brother, who have been inactive for years wanted my help to resign as they don't want to be associated.

I never thought I'd do it--EVER. I really did feel a change. I've never once regretted it. What I do know is if my daughter is still TBM when I die, that she will have me rebaptized and her dad and I sealed again in the temple. He resigned at the same time I did. My boyfriend is worried she'll have him baptized. He doesn't get it. She wants her parents together. She could care less about him. Her whole focus has been having her family together, which is why she is mormon. She has to get her famIly back like it was BEFORE it all fell apart.

"lazy apostate adulteress". I'm stealing that phrase because it is so spot on!

The gaslighting TSCC is doing is really stunning, isn't it.

This from the Vapid Visionaries who thought "ponderize" constituted clever spiritual insight.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vapid Visionaries

Most excellent phraseology!


> thought "ponderize" constituted clever spiritual insight.

Haha. Thanks for my morning laugh. (Wow, it's actually early afternoon already. Oh well, it's still funny!)

NOT moving forward
NOT learning
NOT growing

NOT asking questions!
NOT wondering.
NOT feeling...

Being "lazy" = not thinking for yourself.

"Following"

Not being independent.

Mormonism wants/ expects/ needs/ is predicated on "FOLLOWERS".

People who don't check the facts.

People who are LAZY

Those lazy learners are the ones who study their way out of mormonism.

Someone will soon combine this one and the other famous one:

"Doubt your learning."

Doubt your doubts or you are a lazy learner and a lax disciple not willing to ponderize the scriptures enough and pray long enough.

Nelson's words pissed me off, big time.

I want to know how I was supposed to be prepared to make secret oaths to THE CHURCH when the church hides almost everything about the temple and the nakedness, funny clothing and silly signs and tokens (and penalties to scare the sugar out of god fearing people).

Did I take a year long temple prep class? Yes

Did I read a church approved manual about the "temple experience"? Damn right I did, even twice!

Was I prepared to make all kinds of oaths and promises that I didn't agree to? No way!!!

I would never give my possessions, property or my life to a stupid corporation masquerading as a church.

And the church knows that people have the correct instinct to jump up and leave when going thru the temple for the first time. They have two family or friends "sandwiching" the noob so he/she can't easily bolt from the room.

Sure, they tell everyone at the very beginning that you can leave, but that is before the hoodwink you as the session progresses.

At the beginning, you are INSTRUCTED to pay attention and REMEMBER every step. The entire experience is OVERWHELMING!

And at the end, you have to repeat something that is whispered in your ear by an annoyed temple worker with cemetery breath which has to be repeated verbatim at a giant curtain while being hugged and grappled by strangers.

And then when you flub up the "Health in the navel..." (where are you supposed to learn that?) you are told that you will not be helped the next time you attend..

F-- You prickless Nelson!

Some of us did everything that was asked and I'll be damned to be told that I was a lazy learner.

Damn Straight! Couldn't be said better.

I liked this: "They have two family or friends "sandwiching" the noob so he/she can't easily bolt from the room."

I get in the first room after the creepy anointing and the first thing I see is upside down pentagrams. Whoa! Everyone is dressed in weird outfits and things just keep getting progressively stupid creeepy, BUT, I am sitting by my Dad who was a real Man's man and the most respected man in our county and my mom is across the aisle and because of that, I just accept it all.

And that whole telling you to leave thing? Who leaves before the first scene at a movie or play? I just kept waiting for the good part. Had to come at some point. Right?

I lived in FEAR of going to the temple. I hate the unknown. When I had a C-section with twins, I told the anesthesiologist "just tell me what you are doing before you do it so I won't be surprised." They all told me step by step what they were doing. I have extreme anxiety. A lot of people don't know that because I bulldoze through it. I've had to. So very many times.

I was only marrying in the temple because it was all we both knew, but we were both not sure, but nobody would tell me anything. I have to admit my sister did tell me about getting naked as a friend from work had heard about it and so I told my sister I needed to know. She told me. Otherwise, that washing and anointing would have traumatized me more than it did.

I made it back a few times. I hated it. Something always went wrong. Robe inside out. Figure that one out. Doing sealings to a stranger was the last straw. That was 1990. My husband had talked me into going back to see the changes. They pulled me aside and NOT HIM. I sat in the foyer for about 40 minutes and I never went back.

My boyfriend will say that the Logan temple is a magnificent building and I tell him, "But I know what goes on in there." My TBM daughter admitted to her father how weird it was and she knew EVERYTHING before she went as I told her years before. She thought it was okay to talk to him about it. She knew she couldn't tell me.

The temple was one of the biggest disappointments of my life. My marriage would probably have been #1. I love him and always will, but not as a partner, but my dreams from my childhood were blown apart in ways I never could have imagined. I actually feel really lucky that it turned out so well after all. But that had nothing to do with the church. I picked up the pieces MYSELF.

Anybody who is still Mormon 21 years into the Age of Google, is either lazy or trapped so badly that they believe following the trail of evidence to where it leads, out of Plato’s Cave of Shadows, would be fatal. And they wouldn’t be entirely wrong in that belief. It is fatal to many of the important relationships in my life, my oldest Sister, my best friends, my wife (now X), all of whom don’t want to hear my opinions about religion that keeps them captive and mentally enslaved.

People in New York City quickly learn what 'the third rail' is/means. Those of us who don't live in areas where 'third rails' exist usually learn what it means when we figure it out via politics when we hear about "...touching Social Security benefits is like touching the third rail..."

I suspect that Mormons are taught that investigating the origins of the holy mormon church of latter-day bank vaults is 'the third rail.'

Paying attention to your fears is a successful survival trait.

That talk was very offensive. Those who leave are quite the opposite of lazy learners. Lazy learners are those who remain sitting in alpha-state on the pews of any given Sunday, not even wanting to know if the church is true or not.