I talked with someone who used to work for the church and they said they had nick names for some of the church leaders. Boyd K Packer was called the grizzly bear because he was impossible to stage manage. Gordon B Hinkley was known as Grumpy. I guess the man wasn’t all that pleasant to be around because he really seemed frustrated, irritated and unhappy. Monson was called the Revolving Door because he constantly went through secretaries. I guess he was horrible to work for and the secretaries would quit.

I'm always regretting to see or read of ChurchCo subjects derailed to personal matters such as 'Holland's jowls', etc., it reduces the attention - focus on the substance of matters, i.e. the horrible nature of 'the church' itself.

“By their fruits shall you know them”.

Physical appearance based ad hominems are unenlightening but character based judgements of those who claim special status vis-a-vis diety are justified and instructive. IMHO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2021 11:43PM by mahu74.

My wife saw a photo of David O. Mackay and she started laughing...though he looked like a bozo...laughed even harder when I told he he had been prez.of the cult.

I think it is telling that men who were called to positions of such great importance (according to LDS Inc.) should be grumpy or difficult to work with. True they are human, but they are supposed to represent the ONLY TRUE church and are called of God. More is expected of those men than the average Joe. It just shows that they are full of themselves and don't care how they treat those who work for them.

They probably feel trapped. Imagine being an apostle and having no belief in it. Coming out and being honest would cause a huge shit storm and might even be dangerous.

in the mean time the MORmON profit becomes one of the wealthiest men in the world by committing fraud in the name of god https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xaYMdHNILw

building for a while and she had someone who was in the quorum of the 70s or something. This was 30+ years ago. She said he was horrible, as were many of the other GAs. She, herself, isn't so pleasant and was cheating with married men while working for the church and having to maintain a TR.

She is now on disability for OCD. She is EXTREME. Nobody likes her. My "husband" cut her out of his life many years ago.

The COB is not a friendly place. My mom worked there for awhile. They use retired aged missionaries as temps and the full time church employees view the missionaries as scabs. The GA’s are a mixed bag. My mom liked Ezra Taft Benson, Bruce R McConkie and Neil A Maxwell. She didn’t care much for Gordon B Hinkley or the guy who was the Presiding Bishop.

I was in charge of a group of Beehive girls years ago. We were in a predominantly non-LDS community, and were more like an extended family. I loved those girls and I think I came to be seen as part-teacher, and part-counselor.

We got word that GBH Himself would be visiting. My girls set out to make a multi-paged card for him, combining many Mormon themes. The one I remember best is "Flooding the Earth with the Book of Mormon."

The Hinkster was second in command at that time. His birthday was coming up, so we had woven "Happy Birthday" wishes in with LDS themes.

I was so proud of the final edition of that card. My girls had put their hearts into it, and it showed. I handed it to Himself, who barely glanced at it and tossed it onto a table behind him.

He said, "I'll see that the Prophet gets this." I wasn't yet fully church broken, so I said, "But sir, this is for YOU - with your birthday coming up in just a few days." He gave me a withering look and said, "Wal, [he really did say "wal" rather than "well."] I'm gonna give it to him anyway."

I was so stunned by his total lack of graciousness or appreciation, I think this experience may have lit up the "E" in the EXIT sign for me.

Boorish old grouch. I didn't shed any tears when he shuffled off this mortal coil.

For being a PR guy the Hinkster sucked at it. He really didn’t like to mingle with people and do a bit of small talking or show a small amount of appreciation.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For being a PR guy the Hinkster sucked at it. He
> really didn’t like to mingle with people and do
> a bit of small talking or show a small amount of
> appreciation.


I can attest to this. I was one of the missionaries in the crowd when Hinckley and David Wallace visited our mission. He comes across as a kindly, folksy grandfather vibe when he's on camera but he struck me as distant and I felt like some peasant hoping to meet the king.

We got in a line and he walked by shaking everyone's hand. I was in a very desperate state of mind at the time clinging to hold onto faith in the church. I studied the history etc and my testimony was hanging on by a thread. I prayed and prayed that meeting Hinckley might give me some kind of spiritual confirmation that the church really was true.

I ran the image through my mind over and over again of Hinckley shaking my hand and with "a twinkle in his eye" whispers into my ear, "I feel you have been going through a trial of faith, Elder, but please know the church is true!"

But he just walked by quick, shook my hand and barely made eye contact and was on to the next guy. He just looked like he was going through the motions and was there for a quick photo shoot. He almost seemed uncomfortable "mixing with the masses."

I could only imagine how much colder he would be if the cameras weren't on him and he was not putting on a show.

Maybe some of the 15 climbed to the top of the ranks in LDS Inc because they were taught to be good TBMs and always say "yes" to callings. They said yes to everything and eventually reached the top where they didn't necessarily want to be. Maybe they're grouchy and difficult to work with because they'd rather be doing something else, like golfing and hanging out with the grandkids.

I think there is some truth to this. In the church you think you will feel more confident in it the more you learn about it and the higher up you go. For me it was just the opposite. Going through the temple the first time made me want to leave. I went from young men’s activities and Scouting to the big lunatic freak show.

They are also very driven men (and women.) My many decades of work experience is that successful business people have a hard edge to them, even if otherwise nice. Most are workaholics.

In my observation, every church leader thinks they earned their place AND SOME DID. A guy from my youth is working his way up the hierarchy. Granted, he never says "no", but he's also The Real Deal. He's one of the most authentic Mormons I know. Mormons, nevermos and ex-mos have total respect for him. On top of that, the man is on of the best leaders I know. (The church needs people like him, but I doubt he'll make it past area president.)

Sometimes I wonder if they acknowledge the disconnect between LDS claims & the reality of what they're peddling on an everyday basis;

D.Uchtdorf came close to this a while back, I wonder if he's been reigned it because of that / since...

Yeah I think Uchtdorf got demoted. He probably likes being in Europe more than being stuck in the First Presidency. I think they did the same to Ezra Taft Benson. They sent him over to Europe and then advised him to take a job in the Eisenhower Administration.

I think he was sent to Europe after being in the Eisenhower administration. But yes, he was sent there to keep him away from Birchers and shut him up.

Ezra went to Europe right after WWII. I remember him talking about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Taft_Benson

"In 1946, the First Presidency sent Benson to Europe to oversee the church's relief efforts after World War II. He spent eleven months there, traveling 61,000 miles and supervising two thousand tons of relief supplies, including to Germany and Poland"

"In 1963, the First Presidency sent Benson to Europe to preside over the missionary work there. Some, including the New York Times, interpreted this move as an "exile" after Benson's virtual endorsement of the JBS in general conference. McKay publicly denied that the assignment was an exile or a rebuke, but other church leaders, including Joseph Fielding Smith, indicated that a purpose in sending Benson to Europe was to break his ties with the JBS"

-removed



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2021 04:10PM by messygoop.

Honk-honk.

Larry H Miller’s mom was the secretary to ETB. She decided he was a right-wing crackpot, quit, and she, her husband, and two of their four children joined the SLC UU church. She co-authored their centennial history in 1990.

Monson must have been a massive pain in butt, if having the bragging rights to being the secretary to Gawhd’s mouthpiece wasn’t sufficient to keep people from quitting.

My mom knew Ezra’s Secretary Garry Gillespie. Ezra had chilled out a lot by the time he was prophet. The one thing he told my mom was Ezra was an amazing administrator. I heard that from others. I guess that’s why Eisenhower wanted him on his staff not to mention Mormons tend to be organization loyal.

I used to go to “First Church”. She was quite a character!

I think it's likely because they're elderly and working way past retirement age. They don't get proper sleep and tire more easily. The grumpiness is probably a lot to do with fatigue and maybe discomfort from other things e.g. arthritis/rheumatism, back trouble, eye strain and so on. When you hit middle age, you start getting mysterious twinges and it gets worse as you get older. (I speak from experience, unfortunately.)

Also true. The church leaders aren’t spring chickens.

Not really a surprise. I see entertainers being themselves and think wow, never want to hang with them but I appreciate their work.

I think most of us have seen that Y/T clip when he belittles a group of missionaries, many of them thinking that this is the greatest "Spiritual" moment that they will experience- being in the room with the prophet.

Only to be told that they are not much to look at...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuN_ZDJKkPo

I think he was also mocking an elderly woman who spent her swan years doing hundreds, if not thousands of temple sessions [during GC] To him it was a big joke that she didn't have a life outside of the church. ~She got paid nothing for doing hours of church work, while Hinckley was paid a salary and treated like royalty.

This doesn't sound like he thought it was a big joke.

"I was recently told of a woman in Idaho Falls, a widow. Over a period of 15 years she acted as proxy in giving the temple endowment to 20,000 individuals in the Idaho Falls Idaho Temple. She completed her 20,000th endowment on a Friday and returned on Saturday to do five more. She passed away the following week."
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2007/04/the-things-of-which-i-know?lang=eng

I doubt she did that many though. She would have taken 27 years doing 2 sessions per day every single day of the calendar year to do what he is claiming.

Maybe as he was speaking the solemn-sounding words, he had his right index finger pointing at his right temple and was making a tight, rapid circular motion?

Visual cues can alter the meaning of spoken words. My favorite words, whose meaning was altered by actions, were, "Oh, we shouldn't be doing this!"

There is video of it in the link if you click it.

What? and spoil my dream!!

I prefer the movie playing in my noggin.

Assuming the temple was open 5 days a week and doing 5 sessions a day. 15 years would be equivalent of 195,000.

My biq question: Wouldn't the church pull this sister aside and badger her into serving as a temple worker?

I have (sadly) done enough temple sessions to know that temple workers only facilitate the temple patrons, they are not doing work vicariously for others; just running the film and being rude to others who have arthritis or arthropathy in their hands~ try tying up those damn strings on the baker's hats.

And I watched Hinckley in the video and acknowledge that he was not joking, but he definitely had his smugness, which annoys some of us.

Have you ever noticed that the church largely recognizes ordinary church peons ONLY after they have died?

Yet, the windbags are honored for their church achievements (over and over) when they are LIVING.

messygoop Wrote:
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> Have you ever noticed that the church largely
> recognizes ordinary church peons ONLY after they
> have died?

Ordinary people just don't have the spirit shine they do after death. Look at all the money, time, and talents wasted, er spent on dead people. Got to polish the common turds to make them Celestially shine!

I was one of the missionaries in the audience to Hinkley. The ironic thing is that Hinkley no doubt had that joke already up his sleeve before meeting with us because I can guarantee there were NO wrinkly shirts in our mission that morning.

Our mission president made it a real point that all of us needed to wear the best outfit we had, iron our clothes, polish our shoes, and look the absolute best we could for meeting "the prophet."

I remember feeling awkward when he made that joke because I new none of us had wrinkly shirts or messy hair. We all looked 100% for this meeting.

I get it he was joking or teasing but it fell flat because we all knew we looked our best for that meeting. It definitely rubbed me the wrong way. It's like these guys JUST CAN'T complement missionaries unless it's in some backhanded way or followed up with some kind of criticism.

If he stood for having a sense of humor as a Mormon he promoted a bad and awkward one.

I had a bishop that used the "You're not much to look at, but you're all the lord has!" line ALL the time that he borrowed from Hinckley.

He never really meant it as a disparaging remark, but nonetheless, it is something I never found particularly humorous nor clever. It was honestly just a lame old person joke to me, made even more lame after the millionth time I was subject to it.

I didn't serve a mission, but my understanding is that this particular line was a regular component of speeches Hinckley gave to groups of Missionaries, even before he was profit. So if it felt like a lame, scripted, cookie-cutter joke, that's because that's exactly what it was.

Hinckley at the 1972 general conference:

"
I have told groups of our missionaries, as I have met with them in various parts of the world, “You’re not much to look at, but you’re all the Lord has.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1972/04/what-will-the-church-do-for-you-a-man?lang=eng

He should have stopped using that line when he become prophet. He was no looker.

War In Gifs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> He never really meant it as a disparaging remark,
> but nonetheless, it is something I never found
> particularly humorous nor clever.

It's funny as Hell as it is applied to Gordon BS Hinckley.


> I didn't serve a mission, but my understanding is
> that this particular line was a regular component
> of speeches Hinckley gave to groups of
> Missionaries, even before he was profit. So if it
> felt like a lame, scripted, cookie-cutter joke,
> that's because that's exactly what it was.


IIRC Hinckley actually took it from someone else who was a GA in earlier times

I can not dredge up who the original source was now

It would be really great if some knows more about it and informs us

I don't doubt your experience one bit. The church treats members and missionaries very shabby and often at the expense of others.

During my mission, some GA-sbag from the 1st Q came to deliver a message to the members. We were told around 3 times that missionaries were attending/not attending. During that we week we were pressured to keep proselytizing until the last minute. We had neither adequate time nor funds to get our suits in proper order.

Do you know how hot Texas gets in Summer? It's bad and we did not have permission to remove our suit jackets during the visit. About 6 (the tallest and slimmest ones) were chosen to go inside to usher. The rest of us including a set of sisters were assigned parking duty.

All of us looked like crap and were told that there was no room for us to go inside. A bunch of us took off our jackets and sat under a tree for the duration.

During the following zone conference, a bunch of us were called out and rebuked for our sloppy appearance. We had disgraced the lord and his church for the umpteenth time.

Missionaries are first and foremost members of the church but the church is not there for the benefit of the members. It is the reverse, the members are there for the benefit of the church. Even as a member I could never understand why people surrendered control of their lives to an institution. I understand it less as a non member.

messygoop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> During the following zone conference, a bunch of
> us were called out and rebuked for our sloppy
> appearance. We had disgraced the lord and his
> church for the umpteenth time.

Too bad you couldn't throw scripture back in their faces: "For man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart."

But we have modern prophets. . .

The Bible is so two millennia ago.

Hey I just gotta say his holy grumpitude saved me from the Morg.

May gawd have mercy on your grumpy soul Ferret Face.

:0)

Took me awhile to realize that I wasn't the first unworthy worm you crushed who sat before your junior apostolic Desk.