Prince Phillip called the yearly meeting of The Order of the Garter lunacy but a long tradition that was so established it goes on. By lunacy he meant dressing up in old fashioned royal robes and wearing plumed hats. No real point to it other than it’s been done since Edward III started it.

This made me think of LDS Temples. It’s lunacy. It really is but it’s been going on since Joseph Smith cooked up the crazy thing probably being inspired by the Masonic ceremonies he took part in. The church likes temples because they make money and control the membership through them. That’s the point of it in modern times. What goes on inside is just silly ceremony. Like the Order of the Garter you wear your silly hat and robe and feel important because not everyone can do it.

I never went but remember members who would spout the “ Every time I go through I learn something new “ mantra .Of course they couldn’t share what they’d learnt as I never held that recommend.

So many first-timers likely pass through the veil and then think they'll be able to hang out in the Celestial room to commune with ghawd, and that's when they'll learn things.

And maybe that does happen!

But never to me. Even that first, I didn't get much time to admire 'the look' the hat and robe gave me before I was shoo-ed out. I've never heard, while in the sacred temple, just why it was that I had to hurry on out.

They're probably afraid that if people gather they will talk. The person sitting next to you might say, "what the hell was that?"

hahaha

Maybe because it gives you the feeling that there's many people behind you. Like Bear Country Jamboree.

+Yep.

My first time through "the veil" I fully expected to see my long dead mother.

I asked my Dad where my mother was and he said "things don't work that way."

Then I said, probably too loud, " then why the hell did I just go through all that?"

The first time I went to the temple, I fully expected to see my two grandmothers. I had loved both of them dearly, and I was so focused on searching for them that I kind of tuned out a lot of the other stuff that was going on. I was thoroughly pissed off that we were not allowed to compare notes in the Celestial Room.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> But never to me. Even that first, I didn't get
> much time to admire 'the look' the hat and robe
> gave me before I was shoo-ed out. I've never
> heard, while in the sacred temple, just why it was
> that I had to hurry on out.

It has a lot to do with the MORmON church being run by a bunch of con man swindler @$$ holes who understand that the rarer the time anyone can be in the celestial room then the more precious that intentionally limited time will be considered/ perceived.

A MORmON member is supposed to feel very lucky that they were ever able to see that place at all. As a person really understands the place and what is really going on there, they'd likely hustle themselves out of the temple and keep on making an (their) exit right out of the Book of MORmON church (CULT).

I couldn't get a visit from God on my birthday and I am his 'kid' for Christ's sakes.

So don't feel bad about not seeing God where he actually hangs out mostly on planet earth 'supposedly.'

SteveB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “ Every time I go through I learn something new “

Yeah, like I learned I was in a cult.

SteveB Wrote: > “ Every time I go through I learn something new “

--------------------------------------------------

olderelder Wrote: > Yeah, like I learned I was in a cult.

--------------------------------------------------

LOL!! Learned that only ONE time through!! I was able to make it through the the handshakes and throat slitting/disembowelment pantomimes with a raised eyebrow. My "I AM IN A CULT!!" moment occurred when I raised my arms and started "Pay Lay Ale-ing". That's when it hit me.

Also went through the old ceremony in the 70s. On the drive home my mother turned to me and said, in an excited voice, "well, how do you feel?" The only thing I was thinking was "THAT's the church I go to? The one that makes fun of the Catholics for THEIR rituals?" But I just said "tired." It truly is lunacy. But I can laugh about it now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2021 12:20AM by NormaRae.

I did my endowments in 1979 at the Manti Temple. The ceremony still had the death oaths and other weird stuff that was taken out in 1990. When I was done with my initial endowments and in the Celestial Room, my Father asked me, "How was it?" I replied,
Is this the same Church?" I was so freaked out and blindsided, I didn't know what else to say. But like most obedient Mormons, I kept attending and it became less strange. I later became a Freemason. It was very revealing on how much Joseph Smith ripped off from the masonic rituals. By the time I was initiated in Freemasonry, I had lost my testimony. So it wasn't much of a shelf item for me.

swittle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did my endowments in 1979 at the Manti Temple.
> The ceremony still had the death oaths and other
> weird stuff that was taken out in 1990. When I was
> done with my initial endowments and in the
> Celestial Room, my Father asked me, "How was it?"
> I replied,
> Is this the same Church?" I was so freaked out and
> blindsided, I didn't know what else to say.

there is your sign that you have been hustled by a bunch of creepy swindlers (LDS inc executives) who are running a scam, LYING, baiting and switching, LYING, and blindsiding people.

guess who this guy is in the video who is advocating going to the MORmON temple because it helps make life better !!! Allen wants to share how great the temple is !!!! s
.....some MORmONS NEVER learn their lesson!!! https://youtu.be/wZEnFGnRHxs

My 3rd oldest bro took me through the temple in Denver the first time. When I had to do the washing and anointing, I put on the shield and and I ask my bro in the next stall, "hey, do I need to put on my underwear or my garments with this shield"? He mocked me like I have been thru the temple a million times (dumb ass) but I replied, "but I don't want to impress anyone with the size of my pecker thru this little hand clothe" lol!

When we got thru it all, he recounted to me his first time thru. He said that my 2nd oldest bro helped him with it. He said my 2nd oldest turned to him and said, "so you think we are all catholic now?"

Shit, I thought to myself, "when I get home, the funny undies come off" I never could wear the fucken things. I had to on my mission, but they came off there after. I couldn't adjust.

I think I was very lucky to never have gone through the temple. Would have traumatized me even further no doubt about it. Youtube videos were enough for me.

I learned that God wears a wig. I didn’t know that before.

LOL! Is his beard fake as well?

Ouch.

The members just parrot each other. It’s why their testimonies all sound the same.

I've heard that "learned something new" line bs.

"I learn something new every time." If I had a nickel for every time I heard that! I have at least twenty five dollars.

News Bulletin: You can only learn something is supremely ridiculous once. There is nothing new after that unless you are counting the leaves on a different tree in the creation room each time you visit.


Like EOD, I made my way through the froth of the veil, feeling like I'd been hit by a board in the face, found chair to sit on and try to make sense of it all as my Mother was in my face saying, "Wasn't that the most beautiful spiritual experience ever," and before I could answer some old woman tapped me on the shoulder and gave me the bum's rush.


I went to the SLC for my endowments before the mission just once and then to the Manti temple during my incarceration at the LTM. The murals and beauty made it seem holy.

Next, after the mission, the butt ugly Provo temple recently built and its a film and we were on folding chairs and I was there because it helped not blow my cover that I knew the church was bull. There was only one word. Yup. Still R.I.D.I.C.U.L.O.U.S


Without the temples, the Mormons don't have much. What made them "them" has all been stripped away except in their own minds.

Let's face it...the temples are profit centers, pure and simple.

Experiences in the temple are like Ensign Peak Fund dividends. They are too sacred to share.

"During my incarceration at the LTM"; Love that!

In a post from awhile back, I told of our experience with our daughter and soon to be son-in-law while we accompanied them on their first time through the temple.

She's the one who is moving to Washington state soon.

My husband and I were their "escorts", and when the endowment session was done, and we moved on to the Celestial Room, she said loudly for all to hear: "Mom! This is a f****** cult! I'm getting out of here and never coming back! There were quite a few people in that room and they all turned to stare at us. Off we went, never to return to that temple; she was as good as her word, and they got married, they got rid of their temple clothes and garments.

Best temple story ever.

that's f*****n awesome.

That is a great story and experience, but I am still wondering, even tho I have done the ceremony so many times, what defined it as a cult so quickly in her mind to make a comment of such grandness in the C room so quickly? yeah it is weird and off the wall, but it had to be something more than that to come to that conclusion so quickly. I mean you sit stand sit stand, chant, sit stand, chant, pray, sleep, sit stand etc... no time to really digest the stupidity of all of it. Right?

She's probably like me, and focuses intensely on the literal words being said, and is less focused on the costumes, sitting, standing, etc than the text.

Most likely the death oaths gave it away and the chanting also for sure. Secret handshakes? Yep that also. Scare tactic movie? Yep, that may have done it as well.

The last time I went through the temple was in the 1980s. I formally resigned my membership in the early 1990s, having never been through the more benign post 1990 endowment ceremony.

I hear that you wear a poncho with closed sides now instead of wearing something that leaves your naked body more exposed than a hospital gown. And then of course, the "penalties" (blood oaths threatening to kill you by slashing your body open at the throat, chest, and waist levels) have been removed now too.

With those immodest and god-forsaken parts of the ceremony removed now, I can only imagine that all that's left are the stupid and meaningless parts. You watch a movie that depicts God telling others to go create earth, and a re-enactment of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden, and then watch Satin and a protestant minister plot to mis-lead the people of earth. Then they teach you the covenants that are no longer tied to thoughts of mutilating your body as a "penalty" if you ever reveal the secret handshakes.

Overall, it's got to be just stupid now that they don't threaten you with your own body-mutilating murder. Whatever it is it's not sacred.

"I learn something new every time I go to the temple" is the LDS equivalent of "the emperor's new clothes are beautiful beyond description."

It's dishonesty in defense of delusion. (Did I get enough D words in that sentence? :)

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (Did I get
> enough D words in that sentence? :)

You got the Max(well.)

My dad told me (once he realized I was never going back to the church) that the temple was BIZARRE. He didn't go back until my older sister got married. He went some in his older age and he was still a mormon, but every now and then he'd tell me other things that bugged him. He was never what I'd call TBM.

Myself, I went back 3 or 4 times. The last time was after 1990 as my "husband" had talked me into going to see the new and improved endowment. I got pulled aside to do sealings. I did learn something new. I never went back.

I never once got to sit down in the celestial room. The only reason I went back the few times I did was so I could sit in the CR and meditate, try to figure out things in my life. I sat in the foyer after doing sealings (while my husband finished the endowment session) and I meditated there. That is where I got my answers.

I remember once my paternal grandmother saying something about how glad she was certain parts were taken out of the temple ceremony. She was a devout Mormon, so there was no chance that she'd say what they were.

If they disturbed her, someone who went to the temple regularly, I imagine they were pretty disturbing.

Of course, I already knew what those things were. I've never been through the temple myself. As with Freemasonry, the great secret is that there aren't any secrets. I was a sophomore in high school when the Arizona Republic published that story about the dropping of the five points of fellowship and the penalties. I read the story before my mom found it and cut it out and burned it.

I've heard second hand how other family members were disturbed by the whole experience. They remain super devout, but I know for a fact that one of my aunts was deeply disturbed by the pre-1990 endowment and the pre-2005 washing and anointing.

Having been sexually molested I was very disturbed by a man anointing my groin - twice not to mention the time in the MTC where the DL wanted to go to Initiatories. I begged and pleaded with my comp to not go. I went and did like 20-30.

How can anyone be touched intimately by a stranger and keep his or her personal boundaries intact?

The anointing is not just a symbol of Mormonism's violation of individual autonomy and dignity, it is also a stage in that process of dehumanization. It is, in fact, a form of sexual assault, an institutionalized grooming.

In retrospect, I am astonished at what we were expected to undergo--and that by the people who were supposed to protect us.





ETA: I hope that isn't offensive to people who, like you, have gone through much worse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2021 04:37PM by Lot's Wife.

You weren't offensive.

I was molested as a toddler. This made it easy for my grooming by a scout master. By the time of my Initiatory I realized since my father was a Branch President in the MTC when I was 17 and he was molesting my adopted sisters that this is life as a Mormon. There is no boundaries. The Truth was God has a body of flesh and bone and it is a temple for others to touch. One reaches The Celestial Kingdom and can take off their garments and play with a hareem of wives.

I valued myself as an object and Mormonism was the perfect religion for this reality.

This brings tears to my eyes. Incredible cruelty.

I too felt like just some object to them.

An object that was not allowed to have any personality or soul.

I was allowed those as long as I reflected what they wanted like a mirror instead of something to look at with love that isn't love of self.

I don't think most members really like the endowment ceremony. most seem so happy when parts of it are whittled down and simplified. the church could slowly phase it out and most members would be glad to see it go.

mormonism is more social engineering than belief. it's more about belonging to a group or keeping your spouse or family happy.

I got to go thru the SL temple when I was at the MTC which was in SL; I had just gone thru IF temple with some peeps from Rexburg; I knew it was Uber-Weird then, I wish I'd gone thru Nude!

My temple endowment was in the Idaho Falls temple in 1961 just before my mission. I had learned growing up that the Mormon Church doesn't have rituals like the Catholics. Simple meetings, No fancy robes or incense, no crosses on the churches.
Then the temple ceremony and all of its ritual blew my mind. I wish I would have have had the courage to bail out then. It took me another 30 years.

So much of Mormonism represents a U-turn.

When JS started his little cult, God inspired everyone and the leaders were merely an elder and then two elders. Secret combinations (Masonry) were evil, and pomp and circumstance were the signs of Christianity's corruption. In all cases, JS was an outsider challenging the establishment in the name of the individual.

Then Mormonism became the establishment. The hierarchy grew vastly more complex and linear in its power relations, and no one was allowed to question the prophet. Joseph next discovered Masonry and transformed its ritual and mythology into the core of Mormonism. By this point he had become the pope that in earlier years he had condemned.

The LDS church is really two religions: the individualistic, egalitarian original; and the complex, hierarchical, and unapproachable final product. What you (and I) found so disturbing in the temple was the contradiction, the incongruity, between the two traditions.

Yes. We used to be so proud of our bland buildings, practical carpets, and cinderblock. Back in the fifties and sixties at least we always compared ourselves to the enemy---the rich, gold laden and embroidered Catholic church. Their pomp proving that the deserved our nick name for them: Whore of all the Earth.

We were the opposite. We were the equivalent of a simple robe and sandals, like Jesus.

Hard to explain the temple after that. And today, hard to explain the ranches and stocks and bonds and the $100 Billion in the petty cash drawer.

When I went through the first time (oh so long ago) I was battling an infection which I was taking antibiotics. Too put it nicely they "liquefied" my internals and greatly weakened the integrity of my sewage containment system.

I gave explicit orders to my lower port authority to hold all exports until further notice..... but then.... an old man touched me rather firmly to bless my bowels and keep them strong....

Wearing nothing but the perverted poncho there was nothing to stop the deluge when the containment field collapsed. Evil incarnate ran down my legs and there was much spackle....

Apparently I ruined that session and derailed the following one. As I was escorted away I was mortified. Someone said quietly 'that's never happened before.'

It's OK. There were others from my ward there. They made sure that the incident was never forgotten.

But, 3+ decades and one apostasy later, I can smile big and chuckle that I shit on God's holy floor... liquid... high pressure... like a drywall spackle gun... I defiled the St G temple.... and now the church can identify me.... unless I'm not alone in this....

The temple workers had a cow. I was told they would not hold the session while I went to sit down on a crapper.

A member of the temple presidency came to speak with me as I was trying to keep it from gushing out. I had to agree that I would forfeit all my blessings from being at the temple, that the person whose name I held would have reason to come forward and testify against my judgment in the latter days.

I thought I was going to pass out then puke from holding the urge to use the bathroom.

My god they were so rude there. I hated being at the temple.

Although at the same time, I would have died of embarrassment had it happened to me!!!

They act as though we have no bodily functions and that it is a sin to have a bodily function. Somehow by some miracle we should be able to make it through a LONG BORING temple session or initiatories. Find yourself stuck in the temple when your body decides to function and you aren't allowed to get up and leave.

I've had women tell me that they were told they couldn't leave and they wouldn't wait. I've also had some say they did wait and she was so embarrassed.

I love that they take us in the house of god and then strip us of all dignity and boundaries.

It was a lie from the beginning
It's a scam and always shall be
Fraud without end,
Amen, Amen.

Without end? No, there is an end coming. New membership dropping. Active membership dropping. Apostasy rising. Tithing diminishing. Their 100 billion will perpetuate the shell of the structure, but it will fall. It wains now.... not fast enough, but it is happening.

I am a number cruncher by trade. Ass an exercise in non liner programming, using mostly least squares regression to look at the information they that is avaliable (granted it mostly bogus anyway), terminal decline may occur around 2039. Flatline might occur between 2056-2067.

It will never vanish completely, but the active organization will be immobilized in a few decades.

I hope to see this within my lifetime.

.... I had read an article in Reader's Digest about the Mormons and their temples. I was about 10 years old at the time.

I can distinctly remember reading, "the Mormons do not fail to anoint the procreative parts."

I asked my mom what "procreative" meant, and she said it was about having children. Hmmmm. Did that mean Mormon women had their children in the temple? No way, I reasoned. I had been born in a hospital.

So years went by, and I never forgot about the "procreative parts." So when I was "ready" for the temple (18), I was really looking forward to finding out just what would be done to my "procreative parts."

In my interview with the bishop, I asked him what it was like in the temple. He said "Just read the Pearl of Great Price. It'll tell you all you need to know."

Yeah, right. I was not prepared for all the rituals, but I was still accepting of them. Since I was forbidden to talk about it to anyone, I kept my thoughts to myself.

But I did, of course, find out about the naked touching. To me, a closeted gay boy, it was kind of a kick to be touched intimately by a man in a religious setting, and to think that it was OK with God.

Good grief! I haven't thought about this in decades!

PapaKen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But I did, of course, find out about the naked
> touching. To me, a closeted gay boy, it was kind
> of a kick to be touched intimately by a man in a
> religious setting, and to think that it was OK
> with God.

If you weren't coming from an abusive childhood I can see this being interesting from your perspective. A gay friend of mine wondered to me recently why he knew of many Mormon men who were gay as if the cult produced them. I don't know about that but the "crowning" ritual of initiation for Mormons has a homoerotic aspect but it just as well could be seen as a primitivistic animism ritual of psychological crisis.

"Turner and colleagues[74] mention a phenomenon called "shamanistic initiatory crisis", a rite of passage for shamans-to-be, commonly involving physical illness or psychological crisis. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism

I, too, think the temple ceremony is grooming, removing your autonomy with steps like everyone dressing alike in ridiculous comic clothing, by giving everyone a new name, and by the required repeating of ceremony together in unison.

Yessiree, was I ever being groomed to think these strange, weird requirements were dandy....to be made a robot who follows and jumps hoops of whatever the master of the church demands.

I was insulted by the juvenile content of the temple, truly feeling I was being initiated into a fourth-grade-tree-house-club.

Having no other choice, I had been a very independent person growing up.....do and take care of things yourself or cease to exist! Here, in the rooms of the temple, I was required to do as I was told which totally did not sit well with me and put me on my guard.

Endowments and marriage were why I was there. My fiance was a returned mish who knew the ropes....I was told I could not sit by his side which ticked me off. What??? and Why??? For hells sake, we are getting married.

Then I had to swear to cut my own throat and disembowel myself if I failed to defend the honor of Joseph Smith. Again, what the hell? At this point in time I was not sure what I thought about this ole Joseph....he reeked of being a narcissist and a charming charlatan (I made the connection because at this point I had lived with one all my life).

Plus, I HATED the knocking on a pretend door at the veil with some unknown man feeling me up as well as his slurry words requiring me to do the stupid signs and tokens again. Sheesh....for sure I was going to make a fool of myself right here and now because who, for the first time through, would get them all right??? I was a pretty much a perfectionist at this tune in my life.

I for one did not want to linger in the CK room. I just wanted out of this lunacy!!!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2021 03:31AM by presleynfactsrock.

guess who this guy is in the video who is advocating going to the MORmON temple because it helps make life better !!! Allen wants to share how great the temple is !!!!
.....some MORmONS NEVER learn their lesson!!! https://youtu.be/wZEnFGnRHxs

My favorite temple memory was doing baptism for the dead. Afterwards, in the locker room, the kid with mental retardation was 'playing with himself very loudly.

It was comical to see officiated and the young men's president have to force the door and make him stop. He was rather vocal concerning his stimulation.

I was severely chastised for grinning so much thought the ordeal....

Also, when wearing the thin polyester baptism jumpsuit while sitting on the hard wood pews... might as well have been bare ass on wood.... I cut one which reverberated through the waiting room. I was then taken by the arm outside where I was rebuked and my punishment was that I had to sit under a tree and think about what I had done, missing my turn. Then a different temple worker came out and chewed my ass for being outside in the white jumpsuit, which was now covered in grass stains.

Ah they joys of Lds youth.