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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 01:35AM

Those of you who know me might know that my husband is an exMormon, and he has two daughters and a former stepson who grew up estranged from him. This is mainly because his ex wife is toxic and legitimately mentally ill, and she has a habit of forcing people close to her into alliances. My husband's younger daughter started talking to him again a few years ago... and BOY has it been interesting.

My husband was married to his ex wife for about ten years. Three years before they divorced, Ex unilaterally decided that she wanted the family to convert to Mormonism. So she and my husband converted, and they were later sealed at the St. Louis temple.

In June 2000, they divorced, having been separated for about nine months prior. My husband had decided to go back into the Army because he was not making enough money working in factories and hated the work. And Ex was doing all she could to keep them in financial ruin.

In 2002, Ex and my husband remarried other people. Ex got her third husband to convert to Mormonism. And my husband and I happily lived a Mormon free lifestyle. That was when Ex started really alienating my husband's daughters, trying hard to get them to bond with her third husband (#3). She quickly got pregnant and, after our one and only visit with the kids in 2003, started laying on the pressure for them to call her husband "Dad". Supposedly, this was because during that one visit, my husband's older daughter was holding her baby sister and pointed to my husband and said, "And that's Dad!" #3 didn't like that my husband's innocent daughter had referred to my husband as his baby daughter's father.

At some point in all this mess-- I want to say maybe around 2006 or so, when it became clear that my husband would not be crawling back to his ex wife, she sent him letters from his daughters that demanded that he let them allow #3 to adopt them. We later found out that the letters had been coerced, but at the time, the girls were so hateful that we wondered if they were really sincere. My husband also formally resigned from the church that year, which Ex also used to alienate his daughters, since they were very devout.

Ex wrote that she and #3 were "working with the bishop" to see if she could get a temple divorce. I knew from reading this forum that if Ex did manage to get close to a temple divorce, my husband would be getting a letter from the church. I also knew that even though he resigned, the church would find him, no matter what. There's a reason why so many Mormons work for the government.

Anyway... we never got the letter, so I figured Ex had decided it was better to be sealed to my husband. I thought maybe she threw it at #3 whenever he needed to be taken down a peg (in her mind, anyway). She has a habit of rubbing her loved ones' noses in things.

The other night, younger daughter told my husband what had actually transpired regarding the cancellation of sealing. Ex and #3 had, in fact, tried for a temple divorce. They were repeatedly denied, even as they appealed all the way to the First Presidency. Evidently, they were denied for a couple of reasons. First-- one or both of them were not temple worthy. Second-- there was a chance my husband could rejoin the church and then his "blessings" would be restored.

And the real kicker is this-- Church officials told Ex that even if they did allow her to be sealed to #3, the children who were sealed to my husband would NOT be sealed to #3. They could only seal his two kids to him. And their youngest child, a son, is severely affected by autism and Mormonism probably doesn't mean much to him, anyway. I don't think they go to church much anymore, unless they need money.

So... I guess Ex decided that it wasn't worth it to jump through all the hoops and be sealed to #3, since he would not be able to claim my husband's kids in the afterlife. The best part about the story is that younger daughter, upon hearing that they would not be sealed to their stepfather said, "Oh! So I can stay sealed to my dad? Good!"

She wasn't speaking to my husband at the time, but it still does his heart good to know that she hadn't forgotten him, as Ex had claimed. It sure has been nice to see my husband develop a bond with one of his daughters. Maybe someday, her sister will come around. Unfortunately, she is still trapped in her mother's home, acting as a slave and taking care of Ex's youngest child, who needs constant supervision.

Sadly... one of the things my husband and his daughter bond over the most is the fact that both of them were badly abused by the Ex. And, as much as I dislike Mormonism, I am grateful that good people in the church were able to help younger daughter escape when we couldn't.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2021 05:24AM by knotheadusc.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 01:58AM

I'm glad for you in that you're gaining some ground back in your relationships. Also, you have an ocean and portions of two continents to distance yourself. Plus your music!

Not-too-tangentially, I was going through a cache of old books in the farmhouse I'm STILL de-cluttering, and I came across a copy of "Peyton Place." No, I'm not recommending it--not when you're still dealing with Knothead's Place!

Maybe we can think of LDS as interlocking small-town scandals, but on a macro level.

Hang in there! (And keep singing.)

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 03:20AM

Thanks very much.

My husband has finally started talking to someone besides me about all he's been through. He's interested in Jungian psychology, so he recently hooked up with a Swiss trained American therapist who does sessions via Internet from his home in Berlin. I am continually amazed by my husband's strength through all of this. I don't know how he's managed to bear it, to be honest.

I also have a lot of respect for my husband's mom. She was treated very badly by the ex and cut out of the kids' lives. Happily, younger daughter has also reconnected with her after many years (even more than my husband's exile). It's been rewarding and vindicating to see this unfold.

As for music, we made a couple of CDs for younger daughter, just to help her get to know us more. She still has a CD player in her car. ;)

I'm still working on guitar and recently posted a couple of videos of my (very beginner) guitar skills. I guess good things come from almost everything... and in the case of COVID-19, it was my decision to finally learn how to play a little.

Ex does a lot of really dumb things that affect many people, most of whom are innocent. But I can't help but snicker about her choice to join the LDS church. It's definitely made things much more complicated than they needed to be.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 11:27AM

The drama of your story brings me to tears.

I am not estranged from my believing daughters. I hope it never happens.

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 11:37AM

That will never happen, EB.

I tried to post on your “missions” thread, (but it had closed) that you beat the church at its own game. You didn’t stand in the way of you daughters’ missions because you took the high road of love over hate.

Your example made DH and me decide to attend our granddaughters’ baptisms. We won’t speak, but we’ll be there for them.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 02:16PM

when you said you would attend your grandchildren's baptisms, etc. I do believe it is really important that you do.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 02:19PM

Even if my ex and I have both resigned, which means we are "no longer sealed???" my daughter might not have to work so hard after we die about getting our sealing reinstated. I know that is her plan without her saying a thing.

It is nice to see that after all your husband, knothead, has been through over this horrible prior marriage, that it has come full circle. My nephew is has been through a horrible divorce. He hasn't seen his oldest daughter in 4 years. The ex is trying to turn the 3 others against him. I keep telling my sister that the kids will figure it out. Kids are a lot SMARTER than we often think they are.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 05:27PM

kathleen Wrote:
> Your example made DH and me decide to attend our
> granddaughters’ baptisms. We won’t speak, but
> we’ll be there for them.

Silent support and their knowing your feelings and yet you support them in what they know isn't something you agree with is a strong thing in my opinion.

I went to my eldest's baptism since it was the only one here in Missouri. The other two got baptized in Utah and I didn't have to see that nonsense.

My daughter knows I love her despite her religious preference. She has developed into quite the sensitive to sexism woman. Strange how she isn't out of Mormonism.

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 12:26PM

Well, given that my husband’s ex wife did the same thing to her first ex husband, years before she was LDS, I think this was destined to happen. The church was just one more tool in her alienation arsenal. Ex later got her son back in touch with his bio dad when she decided my husband needed punishment.

My husband wasn’t at all upset about that, since he never should have been kept away from his dad (and his dad should have been paying child support for him, instead of my husband). But then we found out ex stepson was secretly legally changing his name while collecting support from my husband (his ex stepdad). He never said a word about it and when my husband asked about it, he got all demanding and rude. Then he quit speaking to my husband. We hear he doesn’t really speak to his mother, either.

I am just glad one of the daughters has come around. My husband got to see her in person last year for the very first time since Christmas 2004. He gave her a long hug and met her husband and their children. My husband’s grandson is the spitting image of him. And when he got back to Germany, the whole COVID lockdown started... so we were especially glad he went to Utah and saw his daughter. They had two days together.

She’s turned out to be a lovely young lady, in spite of everything.

And Elder Berry, I am very happy for you that your relationships with your believing daughters is still good. That’s the way it should be when parents are kind, loving, and responsible.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2021 12:38PM by knotheadusc.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 11:52AM

Fifty-some years ago, temple divorces were very difficult to obtain, and sealing rules were Byzantine. Doesn’t appear that much has changed. That is yet another rat maze that is a part of Mormonism

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 12:36PM

"Rat maze" That made me laugh ... and such a perfect description. :D

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Posted by: gemini ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 12:24PM

That whole temple cancellation deal is so convoluted. My bishop told me "the church doesn't do that anymore" back in 1993 when I asked for one. I wasn't getting re-married in the temple...I just wanted to get unsealed from my ex. He had NO answers as to why I couldn't beyond the "it will be worked out in the eternities" garbage. That day was the last day I ever darkened his door again.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 03:01PM


If there's the slightest chance for a TBM spouse (or partner) to throw stones at a NOM / doubter or otherwise inactive (esp. Vocal about things), ChurchCo will be there cheering them on.

They ought to provide Wedges with marriage & sealing ceremonies, really.

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 03:04PM

Except, in this case, much to our surprise, they were kind of on my husband’s side. That was a shocker to me.

Ex probably didn’t tithe enough or clean enough toilets.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 03:39PM

A former friend got a letter from the church seeking her input regarding her ex husband's wish for a temple divorce.

She sent a reply that detailed his abuse and infidelity.

Two weeks later, her ex went to the temple and was sealed to his new bride.

They work in mysterious ways. lol

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 03:51PM

By virtue of the Holy Priesthood and the authority vested in me, I pronounce you ______, and ______, legally and lawfully husband and wife for time and all eternity, and I seal upon you the blessings of the holy resurrection with power to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection clothed in glory, immortality and eternal lives, and I seal upon you the blessings of kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions and exaltations, with all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and say unto you: be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth that you may have joy and rejoicing in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. All these blessings, together with all the blessings appertaining unto the New and Everlasting Covenant, I seal upon you by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, through your faithfulness, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen.

through your faithfulness, in the name of the Father, and of
the escape clause

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Posted by: moehoward ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 07:25PM

Just a little different twist.
While I was married to my TBM, she correctly discerned that I was not doing a temple marriage. She decided to get married by proxy in the temple. (don't even try to explain this nonsense to me) The bishop sent me a letter asking for my permission to do this temple ritual. I told my wife, "isn't this interesting, the bishop is asking a non believer to give permission for a TB believer?"

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: May 01, 2021 01:11AM

That is utterly nuts!

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: April 30, 2021 07:33PM

Sometimes the best revenge is just to sit back and watch them do themselves in making sure they know you saw. Hard to beat that.

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Posted by: allegro ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 04:59PM

My ex was (maybe still is) abusive. I stayed married to him for 8 yrs and 3 children. It's complicated. Anyway, we divorced and he was threatening to kill me as he was dating #2. I tried to warn #2 but, like me, she did not listen. The interesting thing is she worked for the domestic violence unit for the county. He was very charismatic. She called me a couple years later and said she should have listened to me. She took him to court and he was convicted of assult(he broke her arm), but given probation and sent to anger management. The Bishop was on his side and gave a statement in court. She kept me abreast of where she lived and we became friends.

Fast forward 5 years from his court apperance. He had changed wards and I received a call from that Bishop stating he was calling because ex wanted to get married again in the temple. He asked what he did to me and I told him. He asked was it an open hand or closed fist(REALLY)? I asked if this was a Mormon definition of abuse. Anyway I said he needed to speak to #2 because it was a court case. I explained what happened to her. He said he could not find her. I said I could give him all her new info and he declined. I said so you do not want to speak with her because if you did, they would not get married in the temple? The man started crying and said I had to forgive. I said he called me, I gave him all the info that he declined to receive, and the blood was on his hands and I hung up.

It is all a joke. I was able to get my sealing cancelled years later. Loved the Stake President. They did not let ex know this was happening. He called one of the kids to vent that no one told him that the sealing was cancelled. I guess w/#2 he was given a "heads up". Mine was signed, by the Presidency, on my birthday LOL. I guess wife #3 is happy she is #1 in eternity. Boy am I glad I am no longer on this "hamster wheel". And especially glad I had found this site in year 2000. It has been a ride.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 05:37PM

The church has no business getting involved in these matters .

I have seen moronic bishops and stake presidents take the side of whomever they like better and thereby make divorces much worse, much less fair, and more abusive to aggrieved spouses and children. Attempting to persuade the victim of abuse, at any stage of the process, to forgive in order to allow temple divorces is absurd. Ask once? Perhaps. But lobbying for a party never is.

Those men have no training, no expertise, and in many cases no judgment at all. The "spirit" is nothing more than their pre-existing biases confirmed by equally clueless men.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: May 04, 2021 08:07PM

Is it ironic that LDS teaches "ETERNITY" (is coming - but will never come - later, AFTER you die) is so wonderful while missing THIS (eternal and ever present) Moment?

It's to obfuscate.
Divide. Separate.
To take your money.
And attempt your spirit!

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