Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
Incredibly easy injection--not only totally painless, but almost physically imperceptible. By FAR the easiest injection I have ever experienced in my entire life.
I am no fan of needles (actually, I am considerably needle-phobic and always have been), but this shot was unbelievably physically easy in every way.
Three weeks from now I will return for the second shot.
Since I have always been so needle-phobic, I thought it would be of help to someone here to know that (at least when it comes to the Phizer vaccine) the injection can be so physically easy that--were it not for the steadying hand of the nurse--you may not feel anything at all.
Yipee!!
I am no fan of needles (actually, I am considerably needle-phobic and always have been), but this shot was unbelievably physically easy in every way.
Three weeks from now I will return for the second shot.
Since I have always been so needle-phobic, I thought it would be of help to someone here to know that (at least when it comes to the Phizer vaccine) the injection can be so physically easy that--were it not for the steadying hand of the nurse--you may not feel anything at all.
Yipee!!
Yay. Way to go, especially when you don't like needles.
Your country is far ahead of us here in Canada in terms of % vaccinated. Our main issue has been vaccine supply. Our PM is taking a lot of heat for that. We had agreements signed with various suppliers but delivery has been delayed. I just read this a.m. about the Blackfeet Nation sharing some of theirs with Canadians in Alberta (which is a province hard-hit by the virus; many aren't buying in to prevention measures and, in fact, some have recently held a rodeo, as well as other large-gathering events, making their spread exponentially worse).
I was so fortunate to get my first shot in April. It was as you say with the injection. I did have a bit of a sore arm/shoulder for a few days but small price to pay for the anticipated result. To cope with the less-than-adequate supply of vaccine, our health authorities decided to stretch out the time between doses. We have to wait four months (not four weeks) to receive a second dose. That is the outer edge of the time recommended by manufacturers, which causes me some concern. So by mid-August I will have received both shots. Meanwhile, they say, the first dose can achieve up to 95% immunity (two weeks following the first vaccine). Still, we observe all the same precautions, just to be sure, and also to ensure we don't unwittingly "shed" and potentially infect others.
I've mentioned before that I've always been interested in epidemics (i.e. black plague, Spanish flu). I wasn't too interested in living through one though. It's been challenging. (Understatement). Scary too. I have even more sympathy for all those who suffered mightily in previous ages where their standard of care was far below ours, as well as the general medical knowledge and available treatments being sub par at that time. The plague especially has always fascinated yet appalled me. The scenes in some countries now are reminiscent of that appalling time (India, for instance).
No matter what's going on, I count my blessings every day, for sure. My main reaction to any negative these days is it could always be worse. That does actually help me not to whine too much and to focus on others even more.
My sister found out recently that her workplace has two confirmed cases. Obviously, scary news for her and all of us. We used to see each other at least weekly but due to high risk we are staying apart, which makes me sad. Thanks to Alexander Graham Bell & al, we can still be in daily touch. I keep saying "be careful, be very careful" but I think it's largely a matter of luck in addition to preventive measures. I can't wait for this horrific thing to be done with.
Thanks for your encouraging message, Tevai. I hope it helps some to overcome apprehension and even reluctance and go get their vaccine. We often consider "modern medicine" to be miraculous. But for this pitiless virus, we need large-scale buy-in to help not only ourselves but all those with whom we come into contact so we can wrestle this thing to the ground and get back to life as we used to know it. Any time now would suit me fine.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2021 03:32PM by Nightingale.
Your country is far ahead of us here in Canada in terms of % vaccinated. Our main issue has been vaccine supply. Our PM is taking a lot of heat for that. We had agreements signed with various suppliers but delivery has been delayed. I just read this a.m. about the Blackfeet Nation sharing some of theirs with Canadians in Alberta (which is a province hard-hit by the virus; many aren't buying in to prevention measures and, in fact, some have recently held a rodeo, as well as other large-gathering events, making their spread exponentially worse).
I was so fortunate to get my first shot in April. It was as you say with the injection. I did have a bit of a sore arm/shoulder for a few days but small price to pay for the anticipated result. To cope with the less-than-adequate supply of vaccine, our health authorities decided to stretch out the time between doses. We have to wait four months (not four weeks) to receive a second dose. That is the outer edge of the time recommended by manufacturers, which causes me some concern. So by mid-August I will have received both shots. Meanwhile, they say, the first dose can achieve up to 95% immunity (two weeks following the first vaccine). Still, we observe all the same precautions, just to be sure, and also to ensure we don't unwittingly "shed" and potentially infect others.
I've mentioned before that I've always been interested in epidemics (i.e. black plague, Spanish flu). I wasn't too interested in living through one though. It's been challenging. (Understatement). Scary too. I have even more sympathy for all those who suffered mightily in previous ages where their standard of care was far below ours, as well as the general medical knowledge and available treatments being sub par at that time. The plague especially has always fascinated yet appalled me. The scenes in some countries now are reminiscent of that appalling time (India, for instance).
No matter what's going on, I count my blessings every day, for sure. My main reaction to any negative these days is it could always be worse. That does actually help me not to whine too much and to focus on others even more.
My sister found out recently that her workplace has two confirmed cases. Obviously, scary news for her and all of us. We used to see each other at least weekly but due to high risk we are staying apart, which makes me sad. Thanks to Alexander Graham Bell & al, we can still be in daily touch. I keep saying "be careful, be very careful" but I think it's largely a matter of luck in addition to preventive measures. I can't wait for this horrific thing to be done with.
Thanks for your encouraging message, Tevai. I hope it helps some to overcome apprehension and even reluctance and go get their vaccine. We often consider "modern medicine" to be miraculous. But for this pitiless virus, we need large-scale buy-in to help not only ourselves but all those with whom we come into contact so we can wrestle this thing to the ground and get back to life as we used to know it. Any time now would suit me fine.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2021 03:32PM by Nightingale.
I agree I hate needles also but I also hate dying.
moehoward Wrote:
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> I agree I hate needles also but I also hate dying.
Especially suffocating to death (as some do from this virus). Absolutely horrific.
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> I agree I hate needles also but I also hate dying.
Especially suffocating to death (as some do from this virus). Absolutely horrific.
I'm a nurse. People often tell me they hate needles. I tell them, "No one likes the pointy end."
:)
:)
That said, I'm thrilled that my current job requires zero painful tasks--for me or my patients.
Congrats on that vaccine!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2021 03:52PM by Dorothy.
Congrats on that vaccine!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2021 03:52PM by Dorothy.
I had some illnesses as a kid that made it so I had to have a shot everyday for a few months and a blood test. And other things.
Of all things, I'm diabetic. I was so afraid to start giving myself injections. The doctor didn't even tell me how to give myself injections. She just prescribed them and sent me on my way. I went to the nurse at the hospital and they are so easy to give and very seldom painful. But I was still afraid of the vaccine. I don't get the flu or shingles.
It was NOTHING. I did have a bit of a sore arm after the first one. Not much of anything after the second one. Nice to know I'm vaccinated.
My daughter just had to cross the border into Canada this past weekend/yesterday. They had checked the info on the internet about which tests to get (and they are both vaccinated). They got to the border and, after seeing four different people who all told them it would just be a few more minute and they'd be on their way, but each person took at least 30 minutes. They had to get other tests and had to wait until Monday to get them. They got through the border last evening. And here they are both vaccinated.
Of all things, I'm diabetic. I was so afraid to start giving myself injections. The doctor didn't even tell me how to give myself injections. She just prescribed them and sent me on my way. I went to the nurse at the hospital and they are so easy to give and very seldom painful. But I was still afraid of the vaccine. I don't get the flu or shingles.
It was NOTHING. I did have a bit of a sore arm after the first one. Not much of anything after the second one. Nice to know I'm vaccinated.
My daughter just had to cross the border into Canada this past weekend/yesterday. They had checked the info on the internet about which tests to get (and they are both vaccinated). They got to the border and, after seeing four different people who all told them it would just be a few more minute and they'd be on their way, but each person took at least 30 minutes. They had to get other tests and had to wait until Monday to get them. They got through the border last evening. And here they are both vaccinated.
I have no idea if I hate Needles. I've never visited the place.
But I did receive Moderna #1 over the weekend.
But I did receive Moderna #1 over the weekend.
In the August 11, 1975 Peanuts strip Snoopy believes his brother
Spike once ran the Harvey Hotel in Needles.
Spike once ran the Harvey Hotel in Needles.
L.A. Exmo Wrote:
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> I have no idea if I hate Needles. I've never
> visited the place.
>
> But I did receive Moderna #1 over the weekend.
Congrats on the Moderna inoculation!
Needles (in the desert-y part of California, near to the Colorado River) was one of the towns I traveled through frequently, when my aunt had her uranium claims during the time when I was growing up. (I was about nine when these trips began, and they ceased before I entered high school--I think because my aunt moved to Wyoming to pursue her uranium dreams there.)
For some reason, I always felt SO sophisticated when we were going through Needles (and Baker, too). To me, it felt like I was an integral part of a Jeep version of the Jet Set.
:D
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no idea if I hate Needles. I've never
> visited the place.
>
> But I did receive Moderna #1 over the weekend.
Congrats on the Moderna inoculation!
Needles (in the desert-y part of California, near to the Colorado River) was one of the towns I traveled through frequently, when my aunt had her uranium claims during the time when I was growing up. (I was about nine when these trips began, and they ceased before I entered high school--I think because my aunt moved to Wyoming to pursue her uranium dreams there.)
For some reason, I always felt SO sophisticated when we were going through Needles (and Baker, too). To me, it felt like I was an integral part of a Jeep version of the Jet Set.
:D
Getting Pfizer #2 on Saturday.
Congratulations on getting your first shot!
We’re fully vaccinated and didn’t feel any side effects at all from the shots.
You’re going to love the feeling of freedom from fear of this horrible virus.
We’re fully vaccinated and didn’t feel any side effects at all from the shots.
You’re going to love the feeling of freedom from fear of this horrible virus.
I'm a needle phobe as well, Tevai, and I had no problem with the Covid shots.
Some people do not get any side-effects. Mine set in about two hours later, both times. I recommend that newly-vaccinated people be in a safe place preferably at home, in case the side effects set in. My second dose induced vertigo and fainting, which is why you don't want to be driving if at all possible. It's an uncommon but not unknown side effect.
I'm glad that you got your vaccine! :)
Some people do not get any side-effects. Mine set in about two hours later, both times. I recommend that newly-vaccinated people be in a safe place preferably at home, in case the side effects set in. My second dose induced vertigo and fainting, which is why you don't want to be driving if at all possible. It's an uncommon but not unknown side effect.
I'm glad that you got your vaccine! :)
Take some Tylenol. Tomorrow your arm will be sore in the injection spot and when you move your arm back, like opening a drawer. The second shot kicked my butt for a day, as it did to my wife, my daughter and my brother. Felt fine the day of the shot, a little drowsy that evening. Net morning I woke up and felt like I was getting the flu. Tired, achy, chills and a little nausea. I Googled it and found that a lot of people that had no issues with the 1st one, felt like crap after the second one. The next day, I was fine. Just be forewarned that the second shot may hit you hard the next day. You'll be fine the next day.
Moderna comes in 2nd, and for some reason the J&J one-shot comes in 3rd. No idea why.
Wiseacre: "I just got my 1st shot. I'm having my 2d as soon as I cut another lime wedge."
PhunPhact about Caphiend: Growing up in Christian Science, and getting practically no medical attention while growing up, he has no aversion to needles whatsoever. He is, in phact, one pint away from 8 gallons of blood donations--not counting platelets.
Wiseacre: "I just got my 1st shot. I'm having my 2d as soon as I cut another lime wedge."
PhunPhact about Caphiend: Growing up in Christian Science, and getting practically no medical attention while growing up, he has no aversion to needles whatsoever. He is, in phact, one pint away from 8 gallons of blood donations--not counting platelets.
Congratulations! The pain,or lack thereof, of certain injections has more to do with the person administering said injection than with the contents of the syringe. There are a few exceptions, however. I was a nurse and we had a patient who needed injections of vitamin k. Because the liquid was somewhat more viscous than the average injection solution, the plunger of the syringe needed to be depressed a bit more slowly than is ideal for a painless injection. I used to pride myself on my injection technique(in school, our nurse instructor had been published in his injection technique article)and I was always pleased when a patient complimented me by saying they barely felt it :) I, too, received the Pfizer vaccine. The first one was relatively painless, whereas the second, administered by a different individual, was less pleasant :) This was due to the location on my upper arm. Rather than inject it in the upper,center deltoid,as correct, this person chose to aim closer to my shoulder joint and it was indeed painful :( Oh, and tetanus shots are known to cause soreness for up to two days post-injection!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2021 06:34PM by cinda.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2021 06:34PM by cinda.
Yay you! I am glad you went ahead despite your fear and are scheduled for your second. I get my second 5/20. Then two weeks and I can hug my 92 year old friend again. I don't care about going to bars or sporting events, I just want to hug my friend. Seeing her from 10 feet or through glass really really sucked. This Friday will mark week two for Hubby and he can get his hair cut!!!! He let it grow for a year (dirty hippy) and then had our kid cut it. Dirty Hippy was better. A lot better. Even a hat doesn't cover all the horrible. I took blackmail pics lol.
Susan I/S Wrote:
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> I don't care about going
> to bars or sporting events, I just want to hug my
> friend.
Poignant.
One of the defining memories of this pandemic, I'm sure.
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> I don't care about going
> to bars or sporting events, I just want to hug my
> friend.
Poignant.
One of the defining memories of this pandemic, I'm sure.
I am no fan of needles, but I just look the other way. Whether a needle goes in close to a nerve and irritates it, or is not close to a nerve, and you don't even feel it, is mostly luck of the draw. Usually you just barely feel it, if at all. Sometimes it is a little twinge. In my experience, it's never a big deal. But I always look away.
Which brings me to my complaint. I wish the <bleeping> idiots at the TV stations would stop showing endless closeups of needles going into arms. I don't know what point they think they are making, but my reaction is to want to leave the room or change the channel. Is that what they are going for?
The one thing it does not do is make me want to go out and get a shot. I already got mine in February at the first available chance, because my dislike for getting really sick from covid vastly outstrips my fear of needles. But all these closeups of injections are really off-putting.
What are these clowns thinking?
Which brings me to my complaint. I wish the <bleeping> idiots at the TV stations would stop showing endless closeups of needles going into arms. I don't know what point they think they are making, but my reaction is to want to leave the room or change the channel. Is that what they are going for?
The one thing it does not do is make me want to go out and get a shot. I already got mine in February at the first available chance, because my dislike for getting really sick from covid vastly outstrips my fear of needles. But all these closeups of injections are really off-putting.
What are these clowns thinking?
Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> Which brings me to my complaint. I wish the
> idiots at the TV stations would stop showing
> endless closeups of needles going into arms. I
> don't know what point they think they are making,
> but my reaction is to want to leave the room or
> change the channel. Is that what they are going
> for?
> The one thing it does not do is make me want to go
> out and get a shot.
> But all these
> closeups of injections are really off-putting.
> What are these clowns thinking?
My absolute pet peeve of the whole vaccination thing. YES, exactly what I keep saying. I'm not at all afraid of needles (good thing when I was nursing!) but even I wince every time I see those TV shots (pun intended) where it looks like the needle is 8 ft long and the one wielding it is inserting it very, very slowly. Every time the TV reporter bounces up and says "So go and get yours now" I think yeah, that inspired me to follow suit NOT!
Even not having started off being afraid, I felt nervous and hesitant to go and get mine when my turn came up a couple of weeks ago due to those images of the yard-long needle and the slow, slow insertion technique.
What are they thinking indeed. They should instead be showing pictures of smiling, relieved people getting their lollipop after they received their injection.
I think these medical panels and decision-makers should get input from the person-on-the-street. I know they want to publicize the vaccination process to get as many on board as possible, hence the non-stop TV coverage of vaccine clinics. But who decided it's the best incentive to show close-ups of the jabs? I guess the TV gurus who liken injections to action shots. Otherwise, it's just a non-stop visual of people sitting around, I guess.
I was really surprised how much those images ramped up my stress about getting the shot, something that wasn't the case before now. I had to really push myself to go and get the vaccine after seeing that coverage for months. In the end, I didn't even feel the needle going in. Only after did it sting a bit and then I had some arm/shoulder pain for a few days, easily relieved with a few Tylenol.
So, yeah, they're not helping, just adding to the stress of it all.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2021 08:17PM by Nightingale.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which brings me to my complaint. I wish the
> idiots at the TV stations would stop showing
> endless closeups of needles going into arms. I
> don't know what point they think they are making,
> but my reaction is to want to leave the room or
> change the channel. Is that what they are going
> for?
> The one thing it does not do is make me want to go
> out and get a shot.
> But all these
> closeups of injections are really off-putting.
> What are these clowns thinking?
My absolute pet peeve of the whole vaccination thing. YES, exactly what I keep saying. I'm not at all afraid of needles (good thing when I was nursing!) but even I wince every time I see those TV shots (pun intended) where it looks like the needle is 8 ft long and the one wielding it is inserting it very, very slowly. Every time the TV reporter bounces up and says "So go and get yours now" I think yeah, that inspired me to follow suit NOT!
Even not having started off being afraid, I felt nervous and hesitant to go and get mine when my turn came up a couple of weeks ago due to those images of the yard-long needle and the slow, slow insertion technique.
What are they thinking indeed. They should instead be showing pictures of smiling, relieved people getting their lollipop after they received their injection.
I think these medical panels and decision-makers should get input from the person-on-the-street. I know they want to publicize the vaccination process to get as many on board as possible, hence the non-stop TV coverage of vaccine clinics. But who decided it's the best incentive to show close-ups of the jabs? I guess the TV gurus who liken injections to action shots. Otherwise, it's just a non-stop visual of people sitting around, I guess.
I was really surprised how much those images ramped up my stress about getting the shot, something that wasn't the case before now. I had to really push myself to go and get the vaccine after seeing that coverage for months. In the end, I didn't even feel the needle going in. Only after did it sting a bit and then I had some arm/shoulder pain for a few days, easily relieved with a few Tylenol.
So, yeah, they're not helping, just adding to the stress of it all.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2021 08:17PM by Nightingale.
Oh yeah!
I think we're on to something! This is why there is so much "vaccine hesitancy" in America! I cringe and look away when those people on TV get their shots, just like with my own shots. We are forced to re-live it over and over and over again.
With both my first and second Moderna shots, I felt NOTHING in my arm--not ever. Someone even hit me in the arm, and it didn't hurt.
No reaction at all, ever, with the first shot.
The reaction with the second shot was delayed about 24 hours, and was mild and lasted only a few hours. It was nighttime, so I just slept through it. I was told to not take any medications, because they might interfere with the build-up of immunity, and didn't feel bad enough to take a Tylenol, anyway.
I got injections from two different people--it was just a painless shot.
My 13-year-old granddaughter got her first Phizer on Friday, with no effects at all. She danced that night, and then played soccer game and went hiking all day Saturday--no reaction. Maybe it's easier on kids?
It's a miracle!
I think we're on to something! This is why there is so much "vaccine hesitancy" in America! I cringe and look away when those people on TV get their shots, just like with my own shots. We are forced to re-live it over and over and over again.
With both my first and second Moderna shots, I felt NOTHING in my arm--not ever. Someone even hit me in the arm, and it didn't hurt.
No reaction at all, ever, with the first shot.
The reaction with the second shot was delayed about 24 hours, and was mild and lasted only a few hours. It was nighttime, so I just slept through it. I was told to not take any medications, because they might interfere with the build-up of immunity, and didn't feel bad enough to take a Tylenol, anyway.
I got injections from two different people--it was just a painless shot.
My 13-year-old granddaughter got her first Phizer on Friday, with no effects at all. She danced that night, and then played soccer game and went hiking all day Saturday--no reaction. Maybe it's easier on kids?
It's a miracle!
I suppose you don’t listen to Alex Jones. According to him, the vaccine is a depopulation bioweapon and we’re in the midst of a second Holocaust. Apparently, you’ve just hopped on the train to Auschwitz. If so, have a nice trip.
Or, as with all of his other outlandish predictions that turned out to be hogwash, he could be wrong.
Charismatic story tellers fooling the gullible has real consequences for society.
Or, as with all of his other outlandish predictions that turned out to be hogwash, he could be wrong.
Charismatic story tellers fooling the gullible has real consequences for society.
Holy snikeys we got the first Pfizer vaccine on the same day Tevai. It was about 2:30pm when I did mine.
Adam the warrior Wrote:
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> Holy snikeys we got the first Pfizer vaccine on
> the same day Tevai. It was about 2:30pm when I
> did mine.
We're twinsies!
[Last time I used that word I think I was in junior high school. ]
Our appointments here were both at 10:40 AM PST, and afterwards, we were heading towards our car, to go home, by 11:30 AM or so.
Congratulations on getting your first inoculation, Adam.
I am proud of you!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Holy snikeys we got the first Pfizer vaccine on
> the same day Tevai. It was about 2:30pm when I
> did mine.
We're twinsies!
[Last time I used that word I think I was in junior high school. ]
Our appointments here were both at 10:40 AM PST, and afterwards, we were heading towards our car, to go home, by 11:30 AM or so.
Congratulations on getting your first inoculation, Adam.
I am proud of you!
Well it didn't seem like there were too many downsides to getting the vaccine so I did it.
Its true though that compared to other things done with a needle like a blood draw or putting in an IV this one is a cakewalk.
Its true though that compared to other things done with a needle like a blood draw or putting in an IV this one is a cakewalk.
JJ about 3 weeks ago. Horns or antlers are beginning to grow. The implant only works if you wear a tin foil hat.
Got the first shot of Moderna a few days ago. And I too hate needles; most of the other inoculations I've had felt like a knocker* was injecting me. But, apart from the standard sore arm, the first injection went well.
Round two will come later this month.
*The person who operates the captive bolt gun at a slaughterhouse.
Round two will come later this month.
*The person who operates the captive bolt gun at a slaughterhouse.
Congratulations. I had my second Pfizer 11 days ago. The first two days were fine. Then I became sluggish, and that's been harder to shake.
A young friend of mine said that he was pretty much in a fog for a month after getting his second Pfizer dose, but that he had understood that those who had had COVID already seemed to react more strongly to the second dose. He believed he had the disease last March, and I had a suspicious viral illness myself at the end of February after riding Amtrak. (Neither of us had confirmation at the time, obviously.)
So I figure I might stay sluggish a bit longer, but that's okay.
Tyson
A young friend of mine said that he was pretty much in a fog for a month after getting his second Pfizer dose, but that he had understood that those who had had COVID already seemed to react more strongly to the second dose. He believed he had the disease last March, and I had a suspicious viral illness myself at the end of February after riding Amtrak. (Neither of us had confirmation at the time, obviously.)
So I figure I might stay sluggish a bit longer, but that's okay.
Tyson
These drugs were all released as an emergency measure, bypassing the five-year trials that are required in most cases. I am going to wait five years and see how it goes for everyone else.
I am not afraid of shots. I get shots and blood draws all the time. They're no big deal. As a matter of personal practice, something just doesn't seem to add-up about this pandemic. I don't want to go along with something that doesn't make sense to me. I am not saying it's a conspiracy or an attack on anyone because I do not know that to be the case. I just don't see the same level of risk that a lot of people are believing in, about this pandemic now. The level of fear doesn't seem to correlate with the known facts, regardless of what we do know about this virus. Last year I announced at work that a critical business function would be taking place as scheduled, regardless of the pandemic, and that the work procedures would be changed to help protect those involved in the work against the virus. People said that I would be responsible for killing people as a result. But no one died. No one got sick as a result. The company got the benefit of not having to completely shut down a critical part of what they do. I think that each individual should decide for themselves what the risks are and that everyone should respect everyone else's decision. But at work, the company should have a say if the law backs the company's rights to make a requirement such as getting vaccinated.
Outside of work, I don't think there are laws anywhere in the US that require you to disclose personal medical information about yourself. But you need to stand up for your rights sometime to be able to exercise them. If someone asks you about your personal medical information, you have a right to tell them that your medical information is none of their business. And that should include your vaccination history.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2021 09:38PM by azsteve.
I am not afraid of shots. I get shots and blood draws all the time. They're no big deal. As a matter of personal practice, something just doesn't seem to add-up about this pandemic. I don't want to go along with something that doesn't make sense to me. I am not saying it's a conspiracy or an attack on anyone because I do not know that to be the case. I just don't see the same level of risk that a lot of people are believing in, about this pandemic now. The level of fear doesn't seem to correlate with the known facts, regardless of what we do know about this virus. Last year I announced at work that a critical business function would be taking place as scheduled, regardless of the pandemic, and that the work procedures would be changed to help protect those involved in the work against the virus. People said that I would be responsible for killing people as a result. But no one died. No one got sick as a result. The company got the benefit of not having to completely shut down a critical part of what they do. I think that each individual should decide for themselves what the risks are and that everyone should respect everyone else's decision. But at work, the company should have a say if the law backs the company's rights to make a requirement such as getting vaccinated.
Outside of work, I don't think there are laws anywhere in the US that require you to disclose personal medical information about yourself. But you need to stand up for your rights sometime to be able to exercise them. If someone asks you about your personal medical information, you have a right to tell them that your medical information is none of their business. And that should include your vaccination history.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2021 09:38PM by azsteve.
azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> These drugs were all released as an emergency
> measure, bypassing the five-year trials that are
> required in most cases. I am going to wait five
> years and see how it goes for everyone else.
Re emergency measure: My understanding is that once the 'emergency' state of COVID has passed the pharmaceutical companies will have to obtain permission from governments again to continue using their vaccines.
In the meanwhile, I understand that the speed of vaccine development caused many people to distrust the process and the final product.
I understand the desire to be cautious about one's health and especially when a product is brand new.
I did a lot of reading and listening myself before choosing to get the vaccine (I've had the first dose only to date - Phizer). I do not blame people for being leery. I do hope that most continue to pay attention to the ongoing information updates and to trustworthy medical advice.
My conclusion is that the speed of vaccine development that unnerved many people was the result of worldwide cooperation, amongst usually competing interests, to develop a vaccine in the shortest possible time, to save the greatest number of lives possible. No phases of trials were skipped but rather they were speeded up by being conducted simultaneously rather than one after another as was the previous practice. This was possible due to vastly increased funding support by interested parties intent on developing vaccines as quickly as humanly, and safely, possible.
The following excerpts from the article linked below confirm the general idea of what I heard and read about vaccine development as it was being carried out.
Global News article (December 10, 2020)
https://globalnews.ca/news/7511664/fact-or-fiction-covid-19-vaccine/
Excerpts:
“Normally, it can take two, three, four, five years to have a vaccine developed and approved for wide use,” said Jim Tiessen, director of the Master of Health Administration in Community Care program at Ryerson University. “So to have (the COVID-19 vaccine) developed, tested, being produced, and ready for rollout in some countries now is remarkable.”
"But Tiessen, Chagla, and Caulfield all emphasize that ‘speed’ does not equal ‘sloppiness’.
“(The developers) are following all the normal processes. They’re building the sample sizes. They’re testing on large populations, and the many-makers are testing in several countries,” said Tiessen. “I don’t believe they’re skipping steps.”
‘Speed’ certainly does not mean doctored results either. In fact, Chagla says faking trial results is an impossible feat.
“It’s not simply that a company can make up their own information,” said Chagla. “They hold a trial. There’s a placebo group. There’s independent bodies that monitor the data. There’s independent bodies that monitor the safety. There’s independent bodies that monitor the ethics of these clinical trials.”
“There’s often this perception that you see in the anti-vax community that there’s somehow a collaboration, or a conspiracy, with the pharmaceutical industry, with government, and with regulatory bodies, in order to fast-track a vaccine without good evidence,” said Caulfield. “That’s not the way it works…these developers are building on decades of research.”
There are countless similar articles from many different sources that explain the science and the rationale is familiar to me from my education as an RN and from my interest in associated subjects.
azsteve:
> As a matter of personal practice, something just
> doesn't seem to add-up about this pandemic. I
> don't want to go along with something that doesn't
> make sense to me.
Perhaps you've explained this before but could you give a brief outline of what isn't making sense to you about the pandemic in general?
> I just don't see the
> same level of risk that a lot of people are
> believing in, about this pandemic now.
I have concluded that the level of risk is still very high, especially in areas of low vaccination, high population density, low adherence to recommended safety measures, etc.
>The level
> of fear doesn't seem to correlate with the known
> facts, regardless of what we do know about this
> virus.
I disagree, from the scenes I've seen released by ICUs, ERs and makeshift morgues in North America and Europe, where there are generally good standards of care and access to medical care and medications. At the present time we can look to India for an example of extreme risk and very limited ability to respond and ameliorate the drastic situation. This is one illustration of the destructive forces of COVID-19 if not contained.
>Last year I announced at work that a
> critical business function would be taking place
> as scheduled, regardless of the pandemic, and that
> the work procedures would be changed to help
> protect those involved in the work against the
> virus. People said that I would be responsible for
> killing people as a result. But no one died. No
> one got sick as a result.
That's great news. It has been replicated many places, many times around the globe when preventive measures are undertaken. The world has kept turning, despite the pandemic, just as you describe at your workplace. The key is in your own words: "the work procedures would be changed to help protect ... against the virus".
That doesn't prove the pandemic is overblown but rather that common sense precautions and measures to prevent spread of disease are major components to the protection we can implement against the virus.
> If someone asks you
> about your personal medical information, you have
> a right to tell them that your medical information
> is none of their business. And that should include
> your vaccination history.
On this different note, I agree that medical information can be highly personal and we would wish to safeguard our own and that of others. I personally don't find disclosing my vaccination status all that personal or invasive. But if I choose not to, others can choose to consider me a grave risk to their safety and act accordingly. One obvious example would be businesses that would not allow me to enter their premises. So it's my choice whether to reassure them that I'm as safe as it's possible to be or whether to seek to do my business elsewhere. But I'd be extra cautious of those places that didn't question vaccine status of its patrons, considering such venues to be higher risk to me than otherwise.
I don't see that businesses and other public places trying to protect their workers and patrons are any different than what you did, azsteve, in changing polices and procedures at your workplace to accommodate the recommended risk amelioration strategies that we've all come to know about and experience.
-------------------------------------------------------
> These drugs were all released as an emergency
> measure, bypassing the five-year trials that are
> required in most cases. I am going to wait five
> years and see how it goes for everyone else.
Re emergency measure: My understanding is that once the 'emergency' state of COVID has passed the pharmaceutical companies will have to obtain permission from governments again to continue using their vaccines.
In the meanwhile, I understand that the speed of vaccine development caused many people to distrust the process and the final product.
I understand the desire to be cautious about one's health and especially when a product is brand new.
I did a lot of reading and listening myself before choosing to get the vaccine (I've had the first dose only to date - Phizer). I do not blame people for being leery. I do hope that most continue to pay attention to the ongoing information updates and to trustworthy medical advice.
My conclusion is that the speed of vaccine development that unnerved many people was the result of worldwide cooperation, amongst usually competing interests, to develop a vaccine in the shortest possible time, to save the greatest number of lives possible. No phases of trials were skipped but rather they were speeded up by being conducted simultaneously rather than one after another as was the previous practice. This was possible due to vastly increased funding support by interested parties intent on developing vaccines as quickly as humanly, and safely, possible.
The following excerpts from the article linked below confirm the general idea of what I heard and read about vaccine development as it was being carried out.
Global News article (December 10, 2020)
https://globalnews.ca/news/7511664/fact-or-fiction-covid-19-vaccine/
Excerpts:
“Normally, it can take two, three, four, five years to have a vaccine developed and approved for wide use,” said Jim Tiessen, director of the Master of Health Administration in Community Care program at Ryerson University. “So to have (the COVID-19 vaccine) developed, tested, being produced, and ready for rollout in some countries now is remarkable.”
"But Tiessen, Chagla, and Caulfield all emphasize that ‘speed’ does not equal ‘sloppiness’.
“(The developers) are following all the normal processes. They’re building the sample sizes. They’re testing on large populations, and the many-makers are testing in several countries,” said Tiessen. “I don’t believe they’re skipping steps.”
‘Speed’ certainly does not mean doctored results either. In fact, Chagla says faking trial results is an impossible feat.
“It’s not simply that a company can make up their own information,” said Chagla. “They hold a trial. There’s a placebo group. There’s independent bodies that monitor the data. There’s independent bodies that monitor the safety. There’s independent bodies that monitor the ethics of these clinical trials.”
“There’s often this perception that you see in the anti-vax community that there’s somehow a collaboration, or a conspiracy, with the pharmaceutical industry, with government, and with regulatory bodies, in order to fast-track a vaccine without good evidence,” said Caulfield. “That’s not the way it works…these developers are building on decades of research.”
There are countless similar articles from many different sources that explain the science and the rationale is familiar to me from my education as an RN and from my interest in associated subjects.
azsteve:
> As a matter of personal practice, something just
> doesn't seem to add-up about this pandemic. I
> don't want to go along with something that doesn't
> make sense to me.
Perhaps you've explained this before but could you give a brief outline of what isn't making sense to you about the pandemic in general?
> I just don't see the
> same level of risk that a lot of people are
> believing in, about this pandemic now.
I have concluded that the level of risk is still very high, especially in areas of low vaccination, high population density, low adherence to recommended safety measures, etc.
>The level
> of fear doesn't seem to correlate with the known
> facts, regardless of what we do know about this
> virus.
I disagree, from the scenes I've seen released by ICUs, ERs and makeshift morgues in North America and Europe, where there are generally good standards of care and access to medical care and medications. At the present time we can look to India for an example of extreme risk and very limited ability to respond and ameliorate the drastic situation. This is one illustration of the destructive forces of COVID-19 if not contained.
>Last year I announced at work that a
> critical business function would be taking place
> as scheduled, regardless of the pandemic, and that
> the work procedures would be changed to help
> protect those involved in the work against the
> virus. People said that I would be responsible for
> killing people as a result. But no one died. No
> one got sick as a result.
That's great news. It has been replicated many places, many times around the globe when preventive measures are undertaken. The world has kept turning, despite the pandemic, just as you describe at your workplace. The key is in your own words: "the work procedures would be changed to help protect ... against the virus".
That doesn't prove the pandemic is overblown but rather that common sense precautions and measures to prevent spread of disease are major components to the protection we can implement against the virus.
> If someone asks you
> about your personal medical information, you have
> a right to tell them that your medical information
> is none of their business. And that should include
> your vaccination history.
On this different note, I agree that medical information can be highly personal and we would wish to safeguard our own and that of others. I personally don't find disclosing my vaccination status all that personal or invasive. But if I choose not to, others can choose to consider me a grave risk to their safety and act accordingly. One obvious example would be businesses that would not allow me to enter their premises. So it's my choice whether to reassure them that I'm as safe as it's possible to be or whether to seek to do my business elsewhere. But I'd be extra cautious of those places that didn't question vaccine status of its patrons, considering such venues to be higher risk to me than otherwise.
I don't see that businesses and other public places trying to protect their workers and patrons are any different than what you did, azsteve, in changing polices and procedures at your workplace to accommodate the recommended risk amelioration strategies that we've all come to know about and experience.
Pfizer is currently applying for normal authorization from the FDA. They are likely to get it.
Mitigation efforts do help. Area school systems where I live are currently using social distancing (6 ft.,) masks, and other safety measures. My school system does weekly mandatory testing of all students and staff. We know through this testing that Covid is being brought into schools, but that it is not being spread there.
I volunteered for the phase 1 Pfizer trial in my area, but was not accepted. I did note that the first person in my area to get the vaccine was a PhD student in immunology. I figured if the vaccine was safe enough for him, it was safe enough for me.
Mitigation efforts do help. Area school systems where I live are currently using social distancing (6 ft.,) masks, and other safety measures. My school system does weekly mandatory testing of all students and staff. We know through this testing that Covid is being brought into schools, but that it is not being spread there.
I volunteered for the phase 1 Pfizer trial in my area, but was not accepted. I did note that the first person in my area to get the vaccine was a PhD student in immunology. I figured if the vaccine was safe enough for him, it was safe enough for me.
I got the first Moderna shot yesterday, even though I am in Germany where vaccines are in short supply. I got it from the US Army, and they had a surprisingly well organized and efficient operation. I barely felt the shot and, aside from a little twinge in my left arm, have had no ill effects so far.
I don't like needles, but I prefer the shot to wearing a mask. I do wear the mask when I have to-- I'm just saying I'd much rather get a shot than have to wear that damned thing every day for the rest of my life. I know it's not politically correct to hate on masks, but I'm being honest. I truly hate them, even if I understand why they are necessary for now. Fortunately, my time in the Peace Corps trained me well for tolerating needles. ;)
I look forward to being full vaccinated so I can finally see the dentist and maybe get back to enjoying Europe. I get shot number 2 on June 9th... just in time for my birthday on the 20th.
Good on you for getting the shot! Hopefully, those of us who are getting vaccinated will help end the COVID-19 nightmare.
I don't like needles, but I prefer the shot to wearing a mask. I do wear the mask when I have to-- I'm just saying I'd much rather get a shot than have to wear that damned thing every day for the rest of my life. I know it's not politically correct to hate on masks, but I'm being honest. I truly hate them, even if I understand why they are necessary for now. Fortunately, my time in the Peace Corps trained me well for tolerating needles. ;)
I look forward to being full vaccinated so I can finally see the dentist and maybe get back to enjoying Europe. I get shot number 2 on June 9th... just in time for my birthday on the 20th.
Good on you for getting the shot! Hopefully, those of us who are getting vaccinated will help end the COVID-19 nightmare.
Still awaiting my #2 Moderna shot.
I am the middle sister and for some reason I am unable to be on good terms with both sisters at the same time (ask my kids or anyone who knows me). They get jealous if I spend too much time with the other sister (and one lives in Twin Falls area and one in Brigham--25 minutes away from me).
So I hadn't talked to my younger sister for almost a year because she drunk texts and she was being a jerk last summer when I was going through a lot, so I hadn't talked to her. She has had so many things happen this year, BUT this was the clincher. My 2 disabled brothers who both live in Brigham, too, called to tell me she had COVID.
She has had it 2 weeks now and her fever is 102 today. She asked me if she should go to the ER. I told her to call her doctor. She says the illness is hell. She works for the IRS every weekend (she is retired from social services, but needs insurance). I thought working for the IRS they would require she get it. She doesn't have any health issues.
SO--the shots are worth it and it does feel freeing to not be afraid of the disease.
Now if I had to wear the masks all day like my boyfriend does at work. They wear shields and masks. He grew a beard and nobody knew it.
So I hadn't talked to my younger sister for almost a year because she drunk texts and she was being a jerk last summer when I was going through a lot, so I hadn't talked to her. She has had so many things happen this year, BUT this was the clincher. My 2 disabled brothers who both live in Brigham, too, called to tell me she had COVID.
She has had it 2 weeks now and her fever is 102 today. She asked me if she should go to the ER. I told her to call her doctor. She says the illness is hell. She works for the IRS every weekend (she is retired from social services, but needs insurance). I thought working for the IRS they would require she get it. She doesn't have any health issues.
SO--the shots are worth it and it does feel freeing to not be afraid of the disease.
Now if I had to wear the masks all day like my boyfriend does at work. They wear shields and masks. He grew a beard and nobody knew it.