...is contrary to US law, and probably against the law of any country. A passport belongs to the country of issuance, and the holder named in the passport is the custodian. By the US law, you are not allowed to surrender it to anyone who isn't a US official who has the legal ability to confiscate a passport. And confiscation, whether temporary or permanent, means you've done something illegal or are considered a flight risk.

Wherever you go as a foreigner in another land, it's generally mandatory to carry your passport at all times. While some mission homes make you a copy to keep in your pocket, it would have to contain a stamp from a US consular section of the US embassy to even be considered any kind of legal document. But I know from personal experience that, official stamp or no, police and other authorities are not required to accept to accept the copy.

If you know anyone going on a foreign mission, tell them not to surrender their passport, even if it pisses of the MP or mission home staff. One's passport is one's own business and responsibility. I'm a former government employee, and as such had to complete annual course on how to spot human trafficking. One observation is that traffickers always confiscate victims' passports. That literally makes the MP party to putting you under duress.

Mission presidents have learnt to confiscate and hold missionaries' passports to keep anyone from bolting, which has happened to a significant portion. So,it's good to inform anyone who goes on a foreign mission that, if they want to bolt and fly home, they can go to the nearest US consulate or embassy and report that their passport was stolen or lost, and the consular section can issue a temporary official passport waiver, which allows a person to depart the country.

When I was in a particularly bad situation on my mission, the thought of bolting did cross my mind. Having my passport under lock and key in a different city than I was in, in a foreign country, created a mental hurdle to leaving. I dreaded having to explain why I needed it back. These days, I'd be like, "I need my passport, NOW!" Or, "I prefer to keep it with me, thanks."

I thought the main reason was for protection. What with frequent transfers, dubious residential arrangements and eighteen-year-old immaturity, it makes sense to hold it in a secure location under lock and key. Or am I mistaken?

That was the excuse, and it has some merit. But as poster True stated, it is a rather large barrier to just bolting and going home.

Of course the cost of a plane ticket was a pretty substantial barrier too, depending on where you were.

I had to carry a Brazilian ID document that was created when I entered the country. I still have it. I am pretty sure that the mission home held my passport, which I also still have. Somewhere.

I'm curious... I don't recall being asked for my passport when I've purchased plane tickets in Mexico to fly back to Los Angeles. But the last time I did that was in the mid-80s, and was the basis for my 'brag' that my territory as an L.A.-based investigator was Guadalajara to the south and Bakersfield to the north...

So my question is, does the seller of the plane ticket in the foreign country ask to see your passport or visa for entry into the USA? Why would they care? Surely they know that a small percentage of their passengers are going to be refused entry and they probably don't lose sleep over it.

So if that were really the case, that Elder Dumplings didn't need his passport to buy the ticket, what's wrong with doing so and then explaining the situation to the Customs & Immigration people at the destination airport? Given that Elder D. would likely have a cell phone, he could call somebody to come get him as soon as the plane hit the tarmac. And there would be the threat of him wailing to the authorities, "They took my passport and wouldn't give it back!!"

Where does my notion fail? If it fails?

I've always had to submit to a document review and on occasion a limited interrogation (ten minutes number of times, an hour once) at the airport. But that may be because I don't look like a typical North American.

Which begs the question ...

No, Dave, I am not going to bomb your Taco Bell.

?

Wasn't your question whether I am a Middle Eastern terrorist who crosses into the United States from Mexico?

My bad.

If it wasn't, it should have been.

Do you look middle eastern or something ?
Throw me a bone.

My aunt and uncle, who are in their sixties and look as North-American-of-northern-European-descent as anyone could look, were subjected to a ten-minute interrogation in an airport in [I think] Cancun on the way back to the U.S. in early 2020. Everything was polite and non-confrontational, they said. Their luggage was still with them. If it was searched, it happened later and out of their presence. In the end, the interrogator thanked them for their time and let them go on their way.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> I've always had to submit to a document review and on occasion a limited interrogation (ten minutes number of times, an hour once) at the airport. But that may be because I don't look like a
typical North American.

I look exactly like what I am, which is a middle-aged fair skinned blonde woman of mainly British descent. There's nothing unusual about me at all. The hardest I've gotten quizzed was when I flew into Montreal for a sporting event, which I clearly outlined to the immigration agent. He treated me like I was a very sketchy individual who was trying to enter Canada for nefarious purposes. I'm standing there trying to politely answer his questions while thinking, I'm a totally average American tourist, you must see hundreds just like me every day.

I should add, I've flown into Toronto/Pearson numerous times with zero issues.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2021 04:57PM by summer.

I was once (the long interrogation) detained by an American inspector upon arrival from a foreign destination. There was nothing amiss, so his attentions were strange and unnerving. Moreover the questions he asked were inappropriate and offensive. The fact that he did the whole thing alone, without involving any other officers as would have prevented the excesses, was significant. When he finished, I told him who I was working for and that I was going to report his conduct to his bosses, which unsettled him, and which I did.

I've also been in a few countries that confiscate foreigners' passports upon entry and hold them till exit. Those are rare, and they are not the places Westerners would visit for fun, but they do exist. I doubt the LDS church has much presence in such countries.

> I doubt the LDS church has much
> presence in such countries.


Presence is one thing. Mormonism has a presence in the USA, but what does it have in the way of influence?

And comparing mormonism's influence in America with its influence in other countries, is there another country where mormonism's influence measures up to its (feeble) influence in America?

I'm sure mormons think they punch way above their weight class, but that's not what I perceive.

I mean that I know the church never had a presence in some of those countries and has no missions there now. I'd guess the Mormon population would be in single digits if not zero.

I'm not talking about North Korea, but you get the picture.

Tonga is the only place I can think of, though I have no idea how much influence over the government the LDS church has there.

As I understand it, you don’t need a passport to buy an international ticket, though I think you need a passport ID number. But you definitely will need it to clear airport security, and to board the plane.

If you show up at US Customs and Immigration and say oh darn, I lost my passport, you will be in for a very long and unpleasant delay. They may even ship you back where you came from. In reality, you never should have been allowed on the flight in the first place.

I know that astronauts are not allowed to orbit with passports. Some space law thing. If they land in another country, NASA has to fly their passports to them. It’s not like the other country is going to say, yeah, we know you are astronauts. You’re good to cross the border.

I was in Europe a few years ago and one of our party had her Irish passport stolen. She was not born in Ireland, which may have complicated things, but here’s what she had to have fedexed to her for getting a new passport: birth certificate, marriage license to document the first name change, divorce decree, second marriage certificate to document second name change.

Try arranging to get all those documents when you are in a foreign country. Oh, and you need notarized photos, and police reports of the theft, and you don’t speak the local language.

It took two very annoying weeks. Fortunately, she had the time. Trust me, you do not want to have to do that.

Also, women, yet another reason not to change your name when getting married. Passports get complicated.

Yes, they ask for your passport and visa, if it's necessary to have visa foil in your passport, right at check-in. They are liable for your attempt to enter the country without one.

Also, you're speaking of Mexico in the 1980's. That's probably not a valid example of how it is supposed to be done. Next time you go on a mission, try going to Canada without a passport.

The confiscation of your passport has not been going on for time immemorial. In the 1960s, the MP didn't confiscate it. But when bolting became more common, confiscation became the rule. Still, it's illegal. I was once arrested in Switzerland, and was made to present both my passport and residency permit. Had I not had them, I would probably have actually been taken into custody. Once in Italy, I needed my passport to get an Italian residency permit, and needed it the time my companion tried to ride on the metro for free, and for just passport control at the whim of some Carabiniere along the street.

Both Mexico and Canada travel did not require US passports until about 10 years ago. 9/11 changed a lot of rules and the forming of Homeland Security. When I lived in TX and CA all you needed was a valid drivers license to enter and return from Mexico. Canada too.

I totally agree
When I arrived in Argentina I made it clear to the mission president that he could send me home but I would not surrender my passport.
I stayed

What did the MP say to you when you refused his request?

I was in Germany in the late 70’s and if I remember correctly, when I arrived in a new city I had to register WITH my passport and also unregister when I left. I might not be remembering correctly, but I don’t remember the office taking my passport.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2021 06:54PM by lapsed2.

I've read some of these Missionary stories and I always have the same question, Where are the parents? I'm sure they are scared of losing their temple recommends but then that's a different post.

My mom, not a mormon, did what normal human beings do: She visited me both summers I was in Mexico. The first summer she flew down, the second summer she and her best friend DROVE down in her 1965 T-bird from Las Vegas to Mexico City, where she turned the car over to me, while she and her friend went on a two week guided tour of the Yucatan.

I don't seem to retain many actual memories of those two weeks. I do have a hazy recollection of my learning to handle Mexico City "glorietas' (traffic circles), where the faint of heart do not survive. And I have one photo of me and the car, con tres chicas, dos de las cuales, Norma y Sonia, sequí en contacto por un par de años despues de la misión. Pero era cosa de pura amistad.

I also have a photo of my mom and Sis. McClellan, the MP's wife, at the mission home. I'm sure the MP was pissed that my mom was there, but Mrs. MP probably understood the situation.

Mom also insisted that I call home once a month.

Probably the mission rules reflect some of the lack of respect mormonism has for women/moms.

Good for your Mother. I had a term I used for your mother when I was married to by TBM ex-wife, Mormons only threaten the believers.

I've always been shocked by RMs' stories (read here) of having to surrender their passports to the mission president or whatever when abroad.

I've lived in a "foreign country" (as per my nationality and origins) , mostly just with my passport, for forty years. I would NEVER allow anybody to take my passport from me. As a Brit, it's pretty much the only ID I have. It's a clear sign of a controlling CULT, as far as I'm concerned, however christian they'd like people to consider them to be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2021 12:47AM by Soft Machine.

Is Brexit going to affect your stay in France on a British passport?

"I've lived in a "foreign country" (as per my nationality and origins) , mostly just with my passport, for forty years. I would NEVER allow anybody to take my passport from me."

I went to a casino in Prague a few years ago. The casino was in
the Marriott. Not like Vegas casinos, they're small and intimate, like a banquet room in a Hilton. They're not jammed packed, and they don't have security all over the place.
In order to enter, you had to leave your leave your passport at the entrance with a guy that put it in a lock box. Guy told me it was security so some fool didn't grab a bunch of chips or cash and run out the door. My wife came down about 1am to get me outta the casino (I was up, a lot) and they wouldn't let her in because she left her passport in the hotel room. They had to send a cocktail waitress to the table to tell me to go home. Passport was unlocked and handed back, no issues.

I once drove to Canada and forgot my passport. Prior to 9/11/2001, only a driver license was needed. This was 2004, when security was somewhat tighter, but not to the level it has been in recent years. Plus I lived not very far away, and was a frequent visitor to Canada, so I'm sure I had a large electronic footprint in their database.

Anyway, when the officer asked for my passport, I admitted to having forgotten it, would a DL be sufficient? His response (with a laugh) was "we are perfectly happy to let Americans into Canada with a driver license. Our main concern is that we want to be sure the US will let you back in. We don't want to be stuck with you.

Though he smiled, I don't think he was kidding. He did let me in, and when I returned to the US, the officer at US Customs and Immigration did not bat an eye at my not having a passport with me. I'm sure I had a long dossier on their computers too.

Even without covid restrictions, I doubt very much that I could do that now.

Coming BACK to the U.S. from Canada in about 2003, the U.S. Border guy asked for my ID. I showed him my driver's license. He (in a loud, aggressive voice) said, "This only proves you can drive in the United States!"

I think he loved every opportunity to say that.

I told him, "Well, this is all I have so I hope it works." He let me back in the U.S.

One of the four hotels I stayed at in Cuba a few years ago wanted to hold my passport during the stay. I didn't care, gave it to them. I partied and had a good time. Won't tell you what I did with the tour guide and a maid at one other hotel. Good times.

I forgot about this experience:
Lugano, the main city in the Italian speaking part of Switzerland (Canton Ticino) was my first city. That was May 1969, and I was there for 7 months. The local cops issued us a residency permit. When I left for my next assignment in Italy, I thought the residency permit, bound in cardboard like a small passport, was a cool souvenir. So I kept it, and still have it somewhere.

In 2008, one of my sons was being recognized at an event in Milan, and there was a large press conference. We went over there, of course, to attend the event and press conference. I couldn't find any good hotel in Milan that was affordable, so we got a B&B in Varese, just a few miles from the Swiss border. So one day, my wife and I planned to pop over the border and visit my old haunts. We handed our passports to the border guard, and he disappeared into his shack and ran us through the computer. My passport was flagged because I had kept my residency permit--from 1969!! He allowed us to cross, but informed me that Switzerland wanted its permit back.

Did you send it back to them?

In 1968 my wife and I were living in Wiesbaden, Germany where I was in the US Military. We decided to visit East Berlin so made our way to West Berlin on a train. To cross into East Berlin we went to Checkpoint Charlie where I was allowed, without showing any papers, to walk to walk through the checkpoint from west to east. (Status of forces agreement).
My wife with our 6 month old had to go through customs where she was thoroughly interrogated, made to buy some East German Marks at inflated prices, etc. We linked up on the other side. It was similar coming back to the West - I walked through and she went to customs.

I was in full class A uniform when I walked through.

Heeeey... I live in Wiesbaden now. ;) Been to Berlin, too.

When I was in the Peace Corps, our no fee passports were held for "safe keeping". But we could have them whenever we needed them.