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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: June 04, 2021 11:48PM

That other thread is so long! I wanted to have my voice heard so I started a new thread. Here it is: We could argue till the cows come home about the motives or character of the founders. But why? What difference does it make? The only question is what type of society should we have in 2021? Tying one's political leanings to what the founders wanted is a red herring. That was then. This is now.

I know Mormons (and a lot of other people) get off on the claim that the founding fathers (never mothers!) did what they did via direct input from God and therefore to stray from the path is to defy God himself. But I feel no personal responsibility to agree with that church teaching. If an institution is good then keep it. If it is bad then dump it. We really don't need to ask what Thomas Jefferson or George Washington would like us to do.

Thank you.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: June 05, 2021 09:24PM

I would say there maybe some value in tying present political beliefs with what the founders wanted. From present observation America really is a phenomenally successful country, we have the highest GDP per person, we are the most productive country on the planet, We are also very diverse, there many races. All this stems from the founding fathers and the Anglo normative traditions they believed in. Ideas such as a yeomen middle class, private property, a literate population. These are all unique from the English tradition. In Europe the tradition was more feudalistic, with peasants waiting for a handout, living in squalor, but not in Northern England (the birth place of English Christianity). The English founders respected the Indians more than the Spaniards did in Mexico. Illegitimate progeny was a very big factor in making Mexico what it is. The US escaped much of that.

Patriotism for the Anglo/American heritage and founding fathers is a great thing, It's our manifest destiny. The English have always been proud of their separateness, the distinct distance from Europe, and so have the Americans. It's a common love (heritage) Americans can all have regardless of skin color or ancestry.

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Posted by: wowbagger ( )
Date: June 07, 2021 01:36PM

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
"... we have the highest GDP per person, we are the most productive country on the planet..."

Is your Google broken?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-productive-countries

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: June 06, 2021 04:01AM

Revealed truth is only good for its time. What happens when times change? We stopped executing people for adultery, for one thing.

How is modern Christianity, which idolizes Donald Trump, anything like what was practiced 200 years ago?

Religions based on revealed truth are the problem. Mormonism claims to fix the problem through continuing revelation, but guys, what have you done for me lately?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2021 04:02AM by babyloncansuckit.

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Posted by: Dr. No ( )
Date: June 06, 2021 01:41PM

slskipper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But why?
> What difference does it make?
===============================

It makes a difference if you need a myth around which to organize your life.


If you don't know how to ride a bicycle, those training wheels are not a hindrance

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: June 06, 2021 05:00PM

So why do some people need a myth? That is the great question.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: June 06, 2021 06:49PM

Humans are tribal, and it's easier to share the campfire with people who seem to be going the same direction you are.

That's why sports team tee-shirts are not only popular, but necessary!

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: June 06, 2021 05:33PM

If Americans lived now like they did then...

What are American values?

If Americans lived today as they should...

If America's leaders (government officials) ALL had backbones...

If Americans respected one another and actually supported each other...

If America today had values, principles, decency...

Who is leading America?
And who is following her?

It's how you live today... Not how others wished we would someday live.

"Treat Others How You Might But Treat Me Right"©M@t™ (a passage from an upcoming compilation of quotes, wisecracks, and words wound with wisdom by yours truely).

"Christians" want to write the book. I say they should take another look... But they've already burned the book!

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