https://news.yahoo.com/more-churches-burn-down-canada-010939684.html

I hope the Catholic Church burns in hell, but this might be as close as I get to seeing that become a reality.

Take that, wooden chapel! That'll teach 'em. Eff the indigenous congregation for whom that building was a center of community

They can build a replacement.

anonyXmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eff the indigenous congregation for whom that building
> was a center of community

I think you got that slightly wrong. It should read:

> Eff the indigenous congregation for whom that building
> was a center of a graveyard.

Better?

If I was a kid on a reservation today, I’d burn the churches down, too. If RCC won’t cooperate with the residential school records at the very least, how can anyone care? Burn them down.



Canada Day won’t be a celebration today. Instead I will celebrate a world renowned architect, born in my city of birth and raised just north of there in Red Deer, Ab, and educated at a residential school: his name is Douglas Cardinal.

Here is his website:

http://www.djcarchitect.com/

Encyclopedia entry:

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/douglas-joseph-cardinal


To my great shame, and the shame of the community that raised and educated me, I learned about Cardinal from the old Charlie Rose show. Charlie Rose had him on after the Smithsonian Institute selected Cardinal to design the NATIONAL MUSEUM OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN in Washington DC. The work:

http://www.djcarchitect.com/work/#/national-museum-of-the-american-indian/


Today I will contemplate Douglas Cardinal’s artistic philosophy:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/569408814bf11844ad28dc12/t/56df232522482e5c7f083306/1457464121381/World+Views+Spring+2015.pdf

Human

I attended a wedding in St. Mary's? RC church in Red Deer. Amazing structure. I love Douglas Cardinal's work.

in b 4 ~ the lamanites start burning covered wagons ~

I think that subject line gives an incorrect impression of the current situation.

First, it is unknown at this time who the firestarters are or how many people are involved.

Second, arson isn't the go-to action of *all* Canadians to express their opinions, pro or con.

Third, which church is "the church"?

And, for the record, many of the Indigenous Peoples on whose territory the fires are occurring have stated that they are grieving the losses as they themselves are churchgoers and the affected churches are of historical and social and personal importance to them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2021 04:30PM by Nightingale.

Frequent readers here know SC tends to exaggerate or distort stories he reports, pretty much as a matter of course.

You hit the main points about why this subject line is misleading in several ways. A subject line that fairly describes the story would be something like “Arson attacks on Catholic Church property on Canadian First Nations reserves”. Sensationalism won over accuracy.

What does Ziller call these posts?

Damn it, it's on the tip of my tongue...

When I hang up, you'll hear a "click" but before I do, I have some "bait" to cut. Keeping it on the DL you know?

I find it difficult to understand how a community can worship at the same church that ran the horrific residential school program and destroyed so many lives of that same congregation and it's ancestors.

I agree.

But as ex-Mormons we all know how difficult it is to disentangle the various threads of our pasts . For many of those who worshiped in those chapels the grieving/healing process is just beginning, and it won't occur on either a logical timeline or one we collectively feel appropriate.

The pain those people are feeling must be excruciating.

The US government can't be too proud of it's treatment of Native American children.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16516865

Oh yeah, I don't know much about US religious schools but overall there is no question that the United States's record on Native Americans is terrible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schools

https://boardingschoolhealing.org/education/us-indian-boarding-school-history/

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16516865

https://mjrl.org/2021/03/04/the-dismissed-tragedy-behind-the-native-american-boarding-school-system/

https://inthesetimes.com/article/catholic-church-mission-schools-investigation-treaty-ojibwe-native-people

https://www.wkar.org/post/survivors-indian-boarding-schools-tell-their-stories#stream/0

There was one in Utah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_Indian_School

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1181711

And, of course, there was the mormon church's Indian placement program.

Thank you.

The Indian placement program was in place up here. My old ward's second bishop and his family had a native boy from BC for a couple years. He was the same age as their youngest son and the mom dressed the 2 of them like twins which I thought was bizarre. And now when asked they don't want to talk about "Peter".

My TBM dad wanted to do his part to turn Native Americans white and fulfil prophecy. We had a teenage girl come to live with us for a while. I was probably 7 or 8. She choked me twice but was otherwise pretty nice as I recall. I don't remember her being with us for very long.

I'm rather shocked that Intermountain Indian School operated until 1984, but I wasn't living there in the 1980s. I NEVER could understand this as a child. I was and am always very homesick and I didn't think this practice was okay.

ALONG WITH the placement program. Seemed to me that the mormons who took in these children wanted a babysitter or something of that sort. I grew up with several. I was friends with one of them in elementary school.

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> I find it difficult to understand how a community can worship at the same church that ran the horrific residential school program and destroyed so many lives of that same congregation and it's ancestors.

As a former Catholic, that's a question that I've tried to answer for years.

So here is just my opinion: For a lot of Catholics, they feel that their particular flavor of Christianity is the correct one, and this thinking overrides pretty much anything else. They are in it for the long run. They don't necessarily approve of the Catholic church's policies and practices, but they are willing to overlook them. It's a case of thinking, "This is a good church that is sometimes run by bad people." I can tell you that the Catholics I have known are (for the most part) honest about their church's failings. They know that the church has done some very bad things. When I tell them the reasons that I left, they are understanding of that. They know that not everyone can live with that.

This is insightful. Thank you.

Some ExMo asked if it was ok to make fun of another person’s faith.

You'll have to be more specific.
Do you mean ExMormons making fun of the Mormon CULT that exploited us and covered up child rape?
Yes. I want that abusive CULT destroyed, brick by brick clear down beneath the earth to its foundations, because it is really institutionalized racism, sexism and homophobia, all rolled into one.
The main defenders of Q Anon are Mormons and Evangelicals.
That is a white supremacist narrative that doesn't end well for non-believers,
or non whites.
There are two sides,
the right side and
the wrong fucking side.

There is no middle ground.

The time to Pick a side is long passed.

Don't you know that many on the right believe it is the right side because that means the correct side?

To be on the left is definitely sinister!!!

Kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't you know that many on the right believe it
> is the right side because that means the correct
> side?



Did you know that all the confederate statutes being removed from the US Capitol were Democrat's?

https://www.westernjournal.com/every-racist-confederate-statue-house-voted-remove-congress-democrat/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=WJBreaking&utm_campaign=ct-breaking&utm_content=western-journal&ats_es=96682cc5ef0404eebc72248feae93c4d

Southern white supremacists were Democrats prior to the Civil Rights movement. They only switched parties when the Democrats took up the Civil Rights banner in the 60’s, so moot point.

I did but which party was left or right back then? I know, too, that as time passed most of those Democrats became Republicans and continued the ways of the old South.

So? The topic seems to be Canadians have had it with the Church Anyone who has studied US history knows that the Democrats were Republicans back then. They became Democrats about 80 years ago.
Their philosophies and ideals were Republican. Washington was an independent he didn't believe in any party. Jefferson was a Republican-Democrat, there was no Democratic party back then. And the founding fathers in general were liberal Republicans. They weren't Democrats. So what's your point exactly?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2021 11:36AM by daverichards1.

Kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't you know that many on the right believe it
> is the right side because that means the correct
> side?
Probably about the same percentage of Germans who were sure they were on the right side of history under Hitler.

At this point of time the Democrats are technically the party to the right.

The current Democratic Party platform is to the right of Reagan.

In what sense is that true?

In what sense is that useful here?

The current Democratic party is right of Reagan? LOL what have you been smoking? The Democratic party is left of Reagan but the Republicans are definitely right of Reagan. OK the Qrumpers.

What, pray tell, is the bias for your opinion??

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The current Democratic Party platform is to the
> right of Reagan.

This idiots have burnt down churches founded by people from Africa who had nothing to do with the residential schools. Africans who had fled hatred and religious persecution in their own countries find out the suppoaedly liberal west is a lot less tolerant than they were told it was.

I put these people no higher than the guy who tried to burn down our city's gurdwara because he said he hated God.

Succumbing to the vapors again? What would Trotsky say?

What has the African Evangelical Church got to do with this? It didn't even exist in Canada when the residential schools shut down.

Do you think attacking African born people helps First Nations rights?

Do you think those who did this should be arrested?

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/ten-churches-vandalised-alberta-canada-013152143.html

Ten churches have been vandalised in Alberta, Canada, in attacks that police have linked to anger over historic injustices against indigenous people.

Investigators in the province said orange and red paint was daubed on the churches in the city of Calgary.

The premier of Alberta said the attacks were "appalling".

Alberta's Premier Jason Kenney, said on Thursday one of the vandalised locations was an African Evangelical Church in the city of Calgary.

-->He said its congregation was made up entirely of former refugees who fled countries where churches are often vandalised and burned down.<--

"These folks came to Canada with the hope that they could practise their faith peacefully," tweeted Mr Kenney... "Some of them are traumatised by such attacks."

Have you emailed CZ yet?

How can you justify an attack on an African refugee church? You can't, which is why you dodge the question. You may think you're deflecting, but you show up your double standards with cheap shots.

In fact, how does any of this church burning help living Native Canadians at all? It doesn't solve present day issues, but it does create hatred between them and other groups like the Africans who were attacked. A very inconvenient truth for you to think about.

Antihate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How can you justify an attack on an African
> refugee church? You can't, which is why you dodge
> the question. You may think you're deflecting, but
> you show up your double standards with cheap
> shots.

I once saw a chimp throw feces at spectators. For some reason I felt no reason to reply in kind.


------------
> In fact, how does any of this church burning help
> living Native Canadians at all? It doesn't solve
> present day issues, but it does create hatred
> between them and other groups like the Africans
> who were attacked. A very inconvenient truth for
> you to think about.

Except you are the only person who thinks they can stick that argument on me given that I never made it. Why don't I engage?

Because you just aren't that important.

Since you avoid answering the questions, we can take it as read that you condone the attack on the African Evangelical Church but know it would look bad to admit it.

The OP boasts that "I hope the Catholic Church burns in hell, but this might be as close as I get to seeing that become a reality."

I'm not RC, have never been RC nor wanted to be RC, but I tbink these are despicable acts. I am ex-Mormon but I could never agree with burning or vandalizing LDS chapels either. Apart from the chapel at the school maybe, they just end up hurting people who have almost nothing to do with the issue like Africans, Italians and Eastern Europeans.

This is not a world we need.

I answered your questions above, Jordan. Here's the link since although this is a relatively short thread you seem incapable of finding the post yourself.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2382196,2383025#msg-2383025

That should disprove your memory-impaired claim that I am "avoid[ing] answering the questions [sic]."

Enjoy your engagement with the chimps and, word to the wise, it's best to keep your mouth closed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2021 11:57PM by Lot's Wife.

Antihate Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
> This is not a world we need.
===============================

Well, I agree with that, yet it's the world we gotz.
Mess, ain't it.

It's the tale of history. Written in ash.
Stuff can be rebuilt, replaced. It's important, but not that important.
What I fear is the strengthening sense of The Other.
From this seed comes the pogrom, the genocide.

John Lennon caught the vision once

What about the 100s of LDS churches in Chile which were vandalized in the 90s and even a few years ago? What's that about?

That is a bit too on topic to discuss.

Indigenous leaders up here have said that burning churches does nothing to address the residential school issue and to stop doing it....but the arsonists are apparently not listening to their elders.