Im finally overcoming church trauma and am ready to finish school. I'm set on an astronomy degree (and want to eventually specialize in astrobiology). When I told my parents they laughed and said that was about as useful as fine arts. Now I have self doubt

[EDITED TO ADD: I ignored the obvious! Google: Is getting a degree in astronomy a good idea? Multiple informative answers will come up, with extremely practical information you need to know.]

Follow your heart, but be aware of the real life consequences which could likely and logically happen in the future.

From my distinctly UNinformed perspective, a degree in astronomy would seem to be a rational choice--but I am no astronomer, and I have no special knowledge of astronomy at all.

If you haven't already, I think you should check into the lives of people who have received degrees in astronomy, and see where they were five, ten, fifteen, twenty, and thirty years after getting their degrees.

Which advanced degrees did they need to have?

What were the exact jobs these people were hired to do?

How much were they paid to do these jobs?

How secure were their jobs?

Who are the main employers of people with degrees in astronomy?

What have THEY done, decade by decade, through the rest of their working lives?

Very important: What advice do these people have for students who are in your position right now?

What do they see in the future coming up that you do not yet have the education and the experience to see?

What would THEY have done differently if they had known?

What do THEY wish they had known before they made their final choices to earn astronomy degrees?

Find those astronomers who made careers out of astronomy and learn what they did right, what they now feel was not so optimum, and what they WISHED they had known before they made the lasting commitments they made back then.

You need to know all of these things before you make your own final commitment(s).

I wish you grease to your elbows!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2021 10:48PM by Tevai.

I agree with Tevai. You need to talk to people working in the field. I always put it as three vital questions that need to be asked: What do you like about your job? What do you dislike? If you had to do it over again, what would you do differently?

ETA: I think it's impossible to talk about getting an advanced education nowadays without taking the financial aspect of it into account. I know that one of my regrets from getting my Master's degree was in not getting a GA (graduate assistant) position, since it would have greatly reduced the student loans that I needed to take out. But at the time the person in charge of my program was ridiculous in terms of the workload he expected of his students, and I didn't want to trust my working life to him along with school.

Student loans can absolutely crush you for years on end. You have to have a plan to keep school affordable. I can tell you that my estimated student loan debt doubled in the 2.5 years I was pursuing my Master's degree. So even your most careful budget can go awry. You want to keep the total loan debt in proportion to your expected earnings, especially in the early years of your career. I was just reading about Columbia film school students racking up an average $181K in debt, and graduating to jobs paying a starting salary of $30K. I can tell you that unless you come from a rich family which is willing to subsidize you, that scenario doesn't work financially.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/analysis-columbia-film-graduates-carry-181000-in-loans-make-less-than-30000-per-year



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2021 12:55AM by summer.

I read that article about Columbia, too. Outrageous!

Imagine if you were the one to prove life on another planet.

Imagine if you came up with a way to purify the oxygen in spacecraft or in lunar or martian habitats.

Imagine any other accomplishment connected to astrobiology.

Many decades ago I wanted to study astronautical engineering.
My parents talked me out of it. Now everytime I see another launch or better the results of a planetary probe I realize I could have been part of that.

The only real regret of my life is not following my dream when I could.

Go for your dream. Maybe one day mom and Dad will say look at my kid. Going to Mars.

Maybe they thought you said astrology instead of astronomy. Some people don't know the difference.

Hey, there's good money in astrology if you have the requisite flair for convoluted bull***t

That’s what I thought, too!

I may be an outlier but I think degrees in astronomy--and, anybody, especially astrophysics--are very useful. That sort of background is highly valued in some fields, including finance and economics. There are a ton of physicists on Wall Street and in mansions on beautiful beaches.

Education is more about critical thinking and skills than about any particular subject.

I'd say turn astrobiology into medicalbiology and there will be a greater chance of getting a good paying job. I went to college and studied a less than useful theoretical discipline and got average grades throughout, passed but was no Einstein. Now I work in something totally unrealted, where I get to use my biceps instead of my brains, I still make a decent salary.

Life's hard, there's always someone better, nothing is easy, don't follow your passion, follow the money.

That is some terrible advice.

>> "Life's hard, there's always someone better, nothing is easy, don't follow your passion, follow the money."

And don't forget....don't think for yourself, do what others tell you to do. Your passion and happiness don't matter. Its more important to have money and possessions than anything else in life.

To be fair, you do need to take money into account. Houses, cars, vacations, etc. don't buy themselves. The field you go into does determine your overall lifestyle (both financially and otherwise,) and that does merit consideration.

Agreed. The key is to find a balance. For me it was like this....

My passion is music. I wanted to be a musician since I was a kid. However, as an adult, I realized that my chances of making a good, solid and steady income as a musician was taking a change at best. So I am a hobby musician so I can follow the passion and not worry about making money at it.

As a missionary in the Caribbean islands, I became the medical guy. I gave the Gama globulin shots to everyone, I provided first aid on many occasions, I was the mission barber (no blood letting though). I thought about going into medicine at that time and becoming a doctor. There is potential to make a lot of money in that field. However, I realized that it would require hours and shifts that I didn't want, as well as liability for the lives of others. Not my passion, could have been big money, but I didn't follow it.

I always liked making things, designing, building, etc. So in college I decided on Manufacturing Engineering. It was something I liked and there's good money in it. So for me, it was a blend of passion and money. I like what I do and it pays very well too.

Very sensible. My brother made a similar choice, choosing a surer bet than his number one choice of career field. He ended up having a terrific career and loving his job. For a friend, it was the same -- he was not hired for investment banking (which would have required a ton of hours,) but became a securities analyst instead. Still excellent pay, and much better in terms of hours.

There have been many good things about my teaching career, but money hasn't been one of them. If it paid even marginally better, I think I would have been satisfied.

Your lazy-learner parents probably think a degree in Book of Mormon archeology would be a great thing to have. (There's no such thing. Not even BYU offers that.)

Go for the astronomy degree. Ask your professors, the department chair, etc. about the astrobio emphasis. Their opinions on the subject will actually matter and ought to give you the inside scoop on its viability.

Just because mom & dad can't step out of the mormon litter box doesn't mean you're stuck there too.

No Book of Mormon archeology? What about Kolob? The Earth having a soul? BYU could have a course on Book of Mormon celestial mechanics, what with the sun getting its light from Kolob.

Ah, yes, the Earth's soul!!

Which is one reason for Noah's flood, when all but that boatload of people perished from the face of the earth!

Another reason was so the Earth could experience a baptism by immersion.

No, no, no. Kolob, Kli-flos-is-es and Enish-go-on-dosh are in the Pearl of Rapidly Diminishing Price. Now in the bargain basement bin of your favorite dollar store.

You will be a fine cosmotologist.

What is wrong with your parents? If it weren't for the fact that I'm a lousy mathematician, I'd have wanted to study astronomy! Plus, astrobiology is a unique field, so you should be able to find internship and work from your professors.

Go for the astrobiology program!

I sincerely believe that anything you have to work at, that requires you to discipline yourself, will lay valuable groundwork for everything that follows.

There are so many careers that you know nothing about and it is very likely that in 20 years, you'll look back and say to yourself, "I never could have imagined the path my life has taken!"

Stay positive!



I think it was on another board where an exmo/postmo related having such faith in his Patriarchal blessing that he majored in music because his blessing said that music would a major force in his life. He had neither talent nor passion for it, but slogged through his classes, only to realize upon graduation that he wanted nothing more to do with music and he switched to talk radio. True story!

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I sincerely believe that anything you have to work
> at, that requires you to discipline yourself, will
> lay valuable groundwork for everything that
> follows.

A cynic might remark that anything you are to lazy to work at, that requires discipline you do not develop, will likewise lay the groundwork for everything that follows.

Praytell?

What part of “…valuable groundwork…” should we leave out in the rain?

Valuable Groundwork self-identifies because only by being successful can it be inferred.

Just ask Jordan!

That is the Frankfurt School of Groundworkism.

ETA. You summoned him from the bedroom in his mansion. It's the damnedest thing. If you mention his name, he must reveal himself.
It's like he has no willpower of his own.

See?

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2383687,2383845#msg-2383845

You did that, Jesus!

ETA: And here again:

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2383671,2383849#msg-2383849

If you must summon a spirit, summon a great one from the underworld not a timid one from under the bed. Please!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2021 04:39AM by Lot's Wife.

Bruce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Im finally overcoming church trauma and am ready
> to finish school. I'm set on an astronomy degree
> (and want to eventually specialize in
> astrobiology). When I told my parents they laughed
> and said that was about as useful as fine arts.
> Now I have self doubt

Maybe because there are limited employment activities in that field? (Astrobiology even fewer.)

It probably shouldn't be that way. If you could angle it to say you were interested in the defense/satellite angles of spacw research, they may take you more seriously.

IMO when there are limited employment opportunities along with no other source of income, you have to compensate with a lot of drive, focus, and the ability to tolerate risk. I knew by my mid-30s that I didn't have that level of drive, and changed career course accordingly. Other people who shared my fine arts major made good careers for themselves as artists, designers, and art professors. It just depends on the person.

I did read about an English PhD who never was able to build a career in academia, apart from patching together several adjunct positions at local colleges. In terms of pay and benefits, she would have been better off teaching high school for a public school system. I understand that her experience is not unusual. There is a glut of PhDs in certain fields.

I have a fine arts degree.

I ended up being a farmer. :-)

On the other hand, when I did work in the "industry" I would sometimes get $16,000 for a day's work.

My point is, get that degree, but be prepared to do other stuff as it will give you a broad horizon (and make a few bucks) in life. Remember, Brian May, the famed guitarist from Queen is also a noted astrophysicist. I'm sure your parents would not approve of either of his life choices, and especially not his hair. :-)

My cousin joined the Army and left after four years. He wasn’t good at school, so he didn’t finish college. But he is a brilliant musician, so he went to Nashville. He just finished a nationwide tour playing bass guitar with several bands, including Jamey Johnson and Whiskey Myers. He’s also a great artist, as in he draws and paints.

I think sometimes, following your passion is the best thing you can do. I wish I had gone into music myself. Ah well, at least I can make videos and write, despite all the time I spent in school learning useful things.

There’s more than one way to get through life. I realize I have been very lucky. I am all for being practical about career choices, but sometimes the unconventional way really is the best path to take.

I could have majored in accounting or physics, but I would be terrible at either. But if you want a pretty song sung or a thought provoking editorial, I can deliver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2021 01:33PM by knotheadusc.

DOUBT NOT
PURSUE YOUR DREAM

It depends on what you want to do with astronomy. Professional astronomers have to know lots of math and physics, which is useful (and can be profitable) in many other fields. They don't tend to have problems finding jobs. If you like math and physics, you'll probably enjoy being an astronomer.

Professional astronomers don't spend their time looking through telescopes. That's all automated these days and the astronomers themselves usually do everything over the internet. They do more number crunching and data reduction than staring at pictures. If you just want to look at pictures of the sky, then professional astronomy is probably not for you. Amateur astronomers, on the other hand, do spend lots of time looking through telescopes.

The field of astrobiology is small but broad. Getting a degree in astronomy and some background in biology (or vice versa) would certainly start you on your way there.

Concrete Zipper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It depends on what you want to do with astronomy.
> Professional astronomers have to know lots of math
> and physics, which is useful (and can be
> profitable) in many other fields. They don't tend
> to have problems finding jobs. If you like math
> and physics, you'll probably enjoy being an
> astronomer.

Anybody who learns good math and physics will be well-placed professionally. Learning those subjects while pursuing an enjoyable degree is serendipity.

Skills matter more than the words on a diploma.

I had a calculus professor who asked the class, "What can you do with a Mathematics degree?" His answer, "Anything you want".

There are very few careers in which math is not useful either directly (increasingly the case) or because of the education in logic that it entails.

Amen. I got a degree in math. I "really" majored in comp sci with a math emphasis, which seemed like a better way to find a job, but in reality, most of the jobs I ended up with had much to do with mathematics.

When I was teaching, it was not uncommon for students to say, basically, that they don't like math, but wanted to go into computer graphics. I had to inform them that in a considerable slice of computer science, you really don't need calculus directly. You take calc mostly to develop skills in proof and analysis that you will need in other courses, like discrete math and combinatorics. The main exception to that is computer graphics, which is neck deep in calculus and linear algebra.

This has been the case for quite some time. Albrecht Dürer and Leonardo Da Vinci (good old Lenny) both worked in what became projective geometry, in their experiments with drawing in perspective. That was the hot subject in the 1500s. Da Vince was actually nothing to write home about as a mathematician, but he worked really hard at perspective, and got pretty good at it.

https://www.mos.org/leonardo/artist

If you tour the Accademia in Florence, Italy to see Michelangelo's David, one of the rooms has models of various projects he was working on, with metal pins sticking out at key locations. They were used for measuring the model, and the measurements were augmented and located on the large marble sculptures being created. He didn't just go at a block of marble with a hammer and chisel. It was carefully measured out.

It used to be that even people who did construction of higher end homes with complicated roof structures had to be good at math. Roof trusses were not easy to design or to construct. Now of course the trusses are drawn and constructed by computer, loaded onto a flatbed truck, and shipped to the site. It still takes some skill to find tab A and slot B, but not like it used to.

So you're telling us that technological progress has rendered you obsolete?

More seriously, one could do a lot worse than cavorting with Da Vinci and Durer. I hadn't known of the latter's mathematical interests but that makes sense in terms of his art. There's a point at which both visual art and music become mathematical.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are very few careers in which math is not
> useful either directly (increasingly the case) or
> because of the education in logic that it entails.

Agreed. I began looking at some different graduate degrees a few years back and noticed that among the varying undergraduate degree requirements, a Math degree was always listed. So just for fun, I started looking at all sorts of different degree paths, even ones I was not interested in or even remotely qualified for. Math kept popping up. Law School? Preferred degrees were Pre-Law, Political Science, Sociology, or Math. Med School? Biology, Chemistry, Physics, or Math. Engineering grad school? Engineering, Physics, or Math. MBA? Undergraduate degree in business, economics, management, or math. Math is always there. If I could do it all over again, I would do an undergraduate degree in Math. In fact a few years ago, I almost did a second bachelor's degree in math just because I had the time and money and saw how useful it could be.

Your first degree would probably be in either math or physics, not specifically Astronomy. Those are the tools of the trade, so to speak.

When I did my undergrad, I took Astronomy 101 and 102 to meet my science area requirement. The professors made it clear that they were doing a lot of hand-holding, and if you wanted to make it any further, you had better have some serious math and science chops. We all got the message.

But it was great fun! The professors would go over the weekly quizzes in class. You could retake the quiz, and the prof would average the two grades. For your average college student with an interest in astronomy, it was great. Plus the campus had a wonderful telescope and planetarium. Some of my classes were in the planetarium. I loved it, and have nothing but fond memories of those classes.

I suck at math but love astronomy. So that career path was a non starter.

For people like you and me, the best career choice would be astrology.

Lol.....I hope I never get that weird...

Too late, my friend.

Thanks for that...really..hehe

LR went into agronomy instead of astronomy. Perhaps it was a spelling error. :)

I had a lot of students who grew up on farms and they were generally hell on wheels when it came to spreadsheets, a skill which they picked up from their parents. Modern farming, just like Renaissance sculpture (see my earlier post) is hardly a seat-of-the-pants operation.

I strongly suspect both LR and LW have stronger math chops than they are admitting to.

A surprising proportion of financial instruments arose from agriculture. Forward and futures contracts, for instance, arose from (I think) India roughly two millennia ago; and options ensued somewhat later. So yeah, at some level farming and math are closely related.

Now could I interest you in a Tarot card reading?

I should have studied agronomy but dad was discouraging me from following him into farming. He was unsuccessful..lol

A lot of my students grew up on farms and went into comp sci for the exact same reason. Software can be boom and bust, but not like farming is.

I do not. I could do whatever math was required to calculate seeding and spray rates but retired before the GPS computerized everything on farm equipment era took over. And I'm glad about that. I left the spreadsheet to my accountant to figure out.

I think that before you invest in that degree, there are a few things to consider. But first, don't let what others say detur you from your dreams. If you wanted to become a famous rock star, you might say "what are the odds of succeeding at that?". But the truth of it is, there are famous rock stars out there. So we do know that some people succeed in that field. A lot of people want to study Marine biology. But unless you get hired by Sea World or Jaques Casteau, where will you even start looking for work in that field? How many jobs in your field will actually exist and how many people are looking for those same jobs? Don't make that investment blindly.

One day at the lunch table at work, myself and several other Electrical Engineers there were discussing electronics projects that we had built as kids. Most of us started at young ages with electronics kits and expanded from there. A degree in Electrinics was a natural progression for each of us as we got older. All of us (without exception) had built at least one crystal radio set at a young age, high-school or Junior High. Basically, we were still doing as adults, something that we started doing at young ages, because it interested us. It was fun to hear from the other guys about the things that they built and how they built them as kids, for some things that I had never even thought of. What was your passion at a young age? What did you enjoy doing before you had to work?

Another consideration is what you enjoy doing. On one hand you need to make money. But we all really need to enjoy our work too. Dream big. If you really want that astronomy job and you feel drawn to it, decide that you're going to be the best in the field. If there is only one job in the field, you can see yourself being the one to get it. If that's too big of a burden to place on yourself because you just want "a job" in that field, it's probably not the job for you unless there are an abundance of those jobs out there. If you find yourself thinking about Astronomy a lot because it fascinates you, maybe you should pursue that degree.

There are plenty of good jobs available for astronomy majors. Some jobs only require a 4 year degree. They don't care what your major was, as long as you have a 4yr college degree.
If you like astronomy, go for it and don't worry about getting a job. If I were young, these days, I'd choose a career that was robot proof. If you think your job can be done by a robot, choose another career, because it will be, soon.

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/jobs-for-astronomy-majors

There are plenty of good jobs available for astronomy majors. Some jobs only require a 4 year degree. They don't care what your major was, as long as you have a 4yr college degree.
If you like astronomy, go for it and don't worry about getting a job. If I were young, these days, I'd choose a career that was robot proof. If you think your job can be done by a robot, choose another career, because it will be, soon.

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/jobs-for-astronomy-majors

There are plenty of good jobs available for astronomy majors. Some jobs only require a 4 year degree. They don't care what your major was, as long as you have a 4yr college degree.
If you like astronomy, go for it and don't worry about getting a job. If I were young, these days, I'd choose a career that was robot proof. If you think your job can be done by a robot, choose another career, because it will be, soon.

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/jobs-for-astronomy-majors

There are plenty of good jobs available for astronomy majors. Some jobs only require a 4 year degree. They don't care what your major was, as long as you have a 4yr college degree.
If you like astronomy, go for it and don't worry about getting a job. If I were young, these days, I'd choose a career that was robot proof. If you think your job can be done by a robot, choose another career, because it will be, soon.

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/jobs-for-astronomy-majors

    Does "Do what you want to do" ever translate into "Do what you think you can get away with!"?

    Cuz you can tell someone your dreams, and they could say, "Cor, blimey lad, yer never gonna get away with it! The rozzers'll nick you 'fore tea-time, they will!!"

and if you still do, consider this:

You are condemned to live your own life.

Parents, many other intelligent, well-meaning, wisdomed and community-respected people may have tons of seasoned advice - but it is for these easy. They do not have to live your life.

Only you do.

These esoteric interests and drives of yours are not happenstance.


I go now.