Looks like many people in Oregon are sick of people from Portland.

https://www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2021/5/21/22446522/oregon-idaho-counties-leave

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Greater-Idaho-Oregon-counties-vote-measure-16192466.php

Hardly anyone lives in eastern OR, and this would require approval by the entire state, not to mention Idaho and Congress.

When pigs fly.

Or when the nut jobs take over the country. And yes, it could happen.

I don't blame them. Many of the people in Oregon work hard, but earn little. They have to pay for hipster rentiers, New Age cultists and a mandarin class who do little but tell them how useless they are, because they don't share their privilege...

Good luck to them. California should be split up too.

The odds against it are astronomical!

It all presumes that Idaho wants them.

that is the slightest hang up/ hitch in the deal

Gerrymandering is a practice intended to establish an unfair political advantage for a particular party or group by manipulating the boundaries of electoral districts, which is most commonly used in first-past-the-post electoral systems. Two principal tactics are used in gerrymandering: "cracking" and "packing".

Gerrymandering. Not just for the little guys anymore?

And the beat goes on . . .

I was hoping Idaho would gain something else. Like, a clue.

....yah! IF only Idaho could get its act together and be more like (the hopeless $hit hole known as) California !!!....

Interestingly, slavery was the driving issue both times.

My father's family is from Eastern Oregon and I spent a big part of most of my summers there as a kid. Northeast Oregon is such a beautiful place and still a pretty affordable place to live if you don't care to live where there's no culture. Still, I do often think about trying to retire there. But it is as redneck and backwards as the South. In fact, much more than the are of the Bible Belt I live in, just because I'm kind of in one of the blue dots of the South. That area is definitely the red part of the PNW. They actually would fit in better with Idahoans, but it would sure piss off any progressives who moved to the state because the state as a whole is more progressive. But, like has been said, the odds of them being able to do it are pretty astronomical.

Don't be fooled. This is a push for a white only nation. It's not a new idea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Territorial_Imperative The Skinheads were pushing for it in Idaho in the 1970s. This is not about representation, the line they are pushing right now. This is about White Supremacists wanting a chunk of the US they can control and kick everyone else out of. They don't want a state, they want their own NATION. They want the chunks of WA, OR and CA for their MONEY. They know they sure as hell couldn't support themselves. It's not about wanting "wide open spaces". It's about having control of food supplies and access to the ocean for trade. They are too stupid to understand that they would not be able to exist without federal support.

The comments by "Rick Dalton" above are telling. Note the use of "mandarin class".

My bat crap crazy family that lives there think this is a fine idea. They also think that running around with automatic weapons is a fine idea. They are still waiting for the caravan to show up and the brown people to take their homes and rape the women. But those brown people damn well better get up there and pick their crops this year!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Territorial_Imperative

True. The racism is obvious.

What is also obvious is the fact that those macho men live in regions that are big net beneficiaries of federal subsidies. They want their independence from Washington, DC and from the wealth-generating liberal cities but would take up arms rather than surrender their transfer payments. A

mmon Bundys, the lot of them.

Bundy is a prime example. Wants to be Governor but doesn't vote or even register.

They wouldn't even be able to fight their own wildfires. They would be up the brown river without all the money the farmers/ranchers get in subsidies. In 2020 that was $646 million. From other sources I have read, the next step in the plan would be to take over WA and ID all together because they would be cut off. They think AZ and UT would join of their own accord. Then they would take over the rest of CA.

I have been following this for a long time. First because of crap my brother was told when he was in ID then the last couple of decades when we were trolled by the ZC prepper nuts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2021 01:23AM by Susan I/S.

My guess is that most of them are not that crazy. They'd like their own large state free from influence by others. But they are freeloaders. The subsidies to those parts of the country are much higher than $700 million if you count highway and road maintenance plus subsidies to schools, healthcare, police, fire, forest management, etc. I looked at the official data a few years ago, and the ratio of federal expenditures to tax payments was around 5X even without consideration of defense.

So they want to be independent of Washington even as they continue to suck at the public teat. And in the exceedingly unlikely event that they got access to the ocean, imagine their surprise when they discover that you need harbors and ports to manage anything more than trading some fish: kayaks and motorboats won't do the trick.

It won't happen. And that's good for the Ammon Bundys of the world, for if they succeeded in their quest the world would soon see the practical costs of their profound cupidity and ignorance.

> And in the exceedingly unlikely event that they got access to the ocean, imagine their surprise when they discover that you need harbors and ports to manage anything more than trading some fish

According to their proposed map, they would have the port of Coos Bay
https://www.portofcoosbay.com/


But economically, they get subsidized by the rest of the state. A few years ago, eastern Oregon was complaining that they subsidized Portland (primarily referencing the "welfare queens").
A study by one of the universities - don't remember if it was OSu or PSU - looked at the actual data on state tax revenues and expenditures and determined that the Willamette Valley (and esp. the Portland metro area) subsidized the rest of the state.

I did find this (see graph)

https://www.wweek.com/news/2019/08/21/rural-oregon-wants-a-louder-voice-but-portland-supplies-most-of-the-tax-dollars/

And this

https://www.wweek.com/news/dr-know/2021/06/05/can-we-bribe-the-voters-of-eastern-oregon-to-secede/

"You probably won’t be surprised to learn that none of the seven wannabe Crimeas (Union and Jefferson counties had already approved similar plans) are tax-revenue powerhouses, with an average income per capita that would rank 31st out of 36 if they were a single county. The Citizens for Greater Idaho Facebook group claims taxpayers in northwest Oregon subsidize the rest of the state to the tune of $547 per year.

It’s rare to see rural folks so plainly acknowledge the fact that in terms of taxes paid versus services rendered, red America is dead weight. (I took a few screenshots in case they change their mind.) But in this case, the numbers bolster their argument: “Let us leave, and you’ll never have to pick up our slack again!”

"Wanna be Crimeas:" that's hilarious.

Thanks for the information on Coos Bay. I don't know much about the West Coast and that's good information to have.

The graphic does make the point: both locally and nationally, a lot of rural populations want more influence but aren't willing to forego subsidies from richer liberal areas on both the state or federal level. Assuming that the higher taxed cities and states wouldn't be willing to go along with that deal, autonomy would translate into penury.

So the Greater Idaho folks are fortunate that their dream is doomed from the start.

Susan I/S Wrote:
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> The comments by "Rick Dalton" above are telling.
> Note the use of "mandarin class".

? Mandarin means a career bureaucrat ? I don't think most people are fans of bureaucracy.

Nobody likes overly complex red tape. But many of us understand that a functioning society requires rules, and agencies and officers are necessary to see to it that you follow the rules like the rest of us.

I don't agree.

Bundy, IMHO, isn't concerned about anything other than POWER. I Don't think he's thinking of beyond what days he has left in mortality, maybe not even down to his children (any?).

Unless I'm horribly naïve, he doesn't give a rat's rear about agriculture or high-tech in Idaho.

Is Bundy smart enough or does he think / care about long-term, the value of crops/farmers & other transfers?

I think that farm subsidies are a bit over-stated here, but gov't spending in other areas (defense spending, etc.) is marginally on his mind.

Bundy: More SHOW than GO.

No, I quoted correctly.

https://www.idahofb.org/News-Media/2021/01/government-farm-payments-jumped-in#:~:text=According%20to%20estimates%20by%20University,the%20%24165%2C000%20total%20in%202019.

Ammon Bundy and his crowd as welfare mothers.

Sometimes the truth hurts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2021 03:32AM by Lot's Wife.

It’s the old, Make Oregon Whites Only Again! Campaign.

Again being the point.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/oregon-white-history-racist-foundations-black-exclusion-laws/

Check your geography. Baker, Grant, Lake, Malheur and Sherman counties aren't on the coast.

Can they take Eastern WA too?
Personally I’m a big fan of forming ‘Cascadia’ out of the whole West Coast, West of the Cascade Mountain Range. CA is already the #4 economy in the world. If we call everything East of the Cascade mountains ‘Jesusland’ we can sell it back to Mexico for a Peso.

Wait until they find out Idaho has even less money to spend on communities and services than Oregon.

It seems that when we (Idaho) get any funds from the government, you can bet it will go to projects of cronies that don't benefit the rank and file citizens much.

Oregon conservatives, prepare to take a step down economically if you succeed.

Doesn't the term Greater Idaho seem like an oxymoron?

I wish they would update all state boundaries in the west. Most of these boundaries were decided over 150 years ago and don't make sense in the modern world. Vancouver WA is basically a suburb of Portland OR. The Idaho panhandle is cut off from southern Idaho by mountains and has more in common with Spokane. Eastern WA has more in common with eastern OR and the Idaho panhandle than Seattle.

I wish they would do the following: 1) Combine western WA and NW Oregon into 1 state that includes the Seattle & Portland metro areas. 2) Combine eastern WA, the Idaho panhandle and NE Oregon into 1 state. 3) Combine SE Oregon with southern Idaho into 1 state and 4) Create the state of "Jefferson" referenced in the earlier articles above which encompasses northern California with SW Oregon.

I know it sounds ridiculous and will never happen....one can dream though. :) Has anyone seen the show, "How the States Got Their Shapes" features on the History Channel about 10 years ago? It is worth checking out.

Serious question: what benefits would such a rearrangement bring?

ExMo in WA Wrote:
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> The Idaho panhandle is cut off
> from southern Idaho by mountains and has more in
> common with Spokane.

I always thought of the panhandle as far western Montana, and southern Idaho (except for Boise) as northern Utah.

The state that is southerly to Idaho is correctly called

Baja Idaho…

Eastern WA & eastern OR have both wanted to break away for decades. The term is called "the Cascade Curtain" which devides both states politically as well as geographically.

Coeur D'Alene is quickly turning into a suburb of Spokane.

Vancouver has lost its sales tax base to Oregon. High sales tax in WA & no sales tax in OR.

Folks in rural areas don't want to be governed by liberals in Seattle & Portland.

What you are suggesting would impoverish the conservative states by gutting their tax base. Conservatives may not like liberals, but it's the latter who are paying the bills.

Irrevocable truth: “Them that has the money, makes the rules.”

ExMo in WA Wrote:
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> Folks in rural areas don't want to be governed by
> liberals in Seattle & Portland.


They don't want to be governed by the majority.

So they want to engage in gerrymandering on a state level.

If they were smart, they'd want to organize themselves in 25 tiny states each of which would get two senate seats and one House seat. That would tip the balance in Congress and enable them to increase transfer payments from evil liberal cities to righteous but impecunious conservative hinterlands.

They'd need to replace all their national flags, but the bill could be sent to Seattle and Portland. Problem solved.

I'm sure the conservative folks in eastern WA & OR would adjust. I have lived on both sides of WA state and in Portland. I remember growing up in eastern WA hearing that we would have a GDP the equivalent of Mississippi if we had our own state. Things have changed a lot since then. Cities like Spokane, Boise & Bend are more prosperous and have experienced a lot of growth over the last decade.

I don't see this as gerrymandering. I think it makes sense to have people living in the same state that have a similar cultural identities and shared history. Geography plays a big role in this too. Imagine if Salt Lake City and San Francisco were all part of 1 state? It would never work. This is how folks in eastern WA & OR feel sometimes.

Full disclosure, I live in the Seattle metro area. I consider myself moderate, but stopped voting Republican shortly after George W was elected. I would be happy to let eastern WA have some more autonomy.

Yes, I was being facetious about the gerrymandering; I'm sure you are right about the motivations.

I must admit that when you mentioned SLC and SF, my initial impulse was that that might work pretty well. I may be wrong, but my impression is that urban SLC is in some ways closer to liberal parts of CA than it is to conservative parts of Utah. The geography certainly wouldn't work but perhaps we could conjure up a digital state comprising similar cultures in different locations. (Joke)

On the question of aligning states with cultural boundaries, I don't share your view. In my opinion the last thing this country needs is further polarization. The healthier strategy may be changing the fiscal, healthcare, and pension systems to assuage the anxieties of people who for one reason or another feel aggrieved. But one way or another, working towards greater integration seems critical to alleviating the stresses that weaken the United States and open the way for aspiring tyrants.

The one thing that got me through the Trump era was knowing that I lived in a state that shared my values for the most part. I can't control what is going on in the rest of the country, but I know I live in a state where I feel welcome.

I hope that people living in conservative states feel the same way now. I support your view that the country needs go beyond further polarization. I think the best way to do this is to give people more autonomy at the local and state levels. If people in eastern OR & WA don't want healthcare and pension systems, we shouldn't force it on them. If they want to be a poor state and have lower taxes, we should let them.

If this happened, eventually the new states would start fighting internally and then there would be another split.

I don't know what the big deal is, but some of the western states could do with being smaller, not bigger. California or Texas could be turned into five states apiece. In California, two or three of those would be Democrat.

It’s no different in New York State. NYC and the bigger cities are Democrat. The rural areas are Republican. The rural people complain and want to separate from NYC and say NYC should be it’s own state.

Pittock Mansion Wrote:
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> Looks like many people are sick...


They'll get well soon, er, or, later...

I would be happy if Idaho would get a brain.

Well Dagny moved there, so that’s a start. I’m less certain of Kentish...

Idaho has long been a small town agricultural state. The massive growth in the state, fuelled by incomers from all over, will inevitably change that.

Less certain? I am an open book. If not lol at least breaking a mischievous grin .

;)