Here is the dilemma:
Joe jr., without a shred of supporting evidence, claimed to have spoken to God and Jesus Christ
Based on his later propensity for perpetrating lies can he be believed?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2021 10:32AM by thedesertrat1.

He is as believable as any other man who claimed to have talked to god.

No. That's why claims require external independent verification. He had none of course, so that's why "faith" is used for crap like that.

And why they use the slur of "not having faith" as a way to discredit those who think they are gullible fools.

"Oh ye of little faith!" is their best their one size fits all defamer.

Little do they know that they are giving me a compliment!

Haha. I know, right?

It's like when my Dad in an attempt to get me back to the church said, "Satan is so clever he can fool even the very elite."

All I could think of was, "Thank you, Dad."

Done & Done Wrote:
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> Haha. I know, right?
>
> It's like when my Dad in an attempt to get me back
> to the church said, "Satan is so clever he can
> fool even the very elite."
>
> All I could think of was, "Thank you, Dad."
You are therefore among the "very elite"

I would view any such claim with skepticism, but especially for a man like Joseph who had every appearance of being a con artist and grifter.

A lot of people do believe it, though. How do you think the church got so rich? P. T. Barnum was right.

I think this proves he was lying:

Complete apostasy: Joseph Smith said the true church had been

withdrawn into Heaven and he, himself had been ordained by God

to restore it. However, if you believe that, and you believe

the BOM story of the three Nephites (III. Nephi, 28) and the

D&C statement that the Apostles John and Peter are still alive

(D&C 7) you must either believe the Three Nephites, John and

Peter apostatized or that Christ went back on His word, because

in vs. 7-9 of III Nephi 28, Christ promised the three Nephites

that they could remain on earth to preach His Gospel “until He

returned in His glory.” It is obvious that if there are 5

apostles of Jesus Christ on earth, (the 3 Nephites plus John

the Beloved and Peter) there could have been NO complete

apostasy. Would you rather believe Jesus lied, or Joseph lied?

(I’m sure Joseph was making this up since history records the

death of the apostle Peter.)

In my work, I met a lot of pedophiles who talked to God.

I don’t read their books, and I don’t give them money.

+1

No person has ever spoken to any god.

Depends upon the charges.

Correction--- Many people have tried to speak to God through prayer or other communications.

There is 'no evidence' God has personally responded to anyone!!

I'm very aware that the vast majority of humans will lie in order to improve their situations, with the divergence from truth based on the extremely variable concept of "just what can I/We get away with".

People who don't/won't lie are seen as very strange, weird, and maybe even dangerous!

The assumption that paid, public servants only lie when their lips are moving is based on centuries of research.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm very aware that the vast majority of humans
> will lie in order to improve their situations,
> with the divergence from truth based on the
> extremely variable concept of "just what can I/We
> get away with".
>
> People who don't/won't lie are seen as very
> strange, weird, and maybe even dangerous!
>
> The assumption that paid, public servants only lie
> when their lips are moving is based on centuries
> of research.

Aint it the truth---aint it the truth---aint it the truth

What kind of fool tells the truth in a world where lying is much more effective in getting what you want?

For me the problem isn't the lying, it is the rampant gullibility that makes it worth while. People tend to believe what they hear, especially if its salacious or whacko, and are reluctant to change their minds even when facts come to light.

This is a case of "innocent until proven guilty" biting everyone on the butt.

So he probably spoke to one of them, but not the other.

No.
What’s the dilemma?

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No.
> What’s the dilemma?
It is whether or not to believe him

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
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> It is whether or not to believe him

"without a shred of supporting evidence"

Belief that "supporting evidence" could exist is more telling than Joe's claim.

I have no use for belief. Can't even stand the phrase, "believing in yourself." Is anything more useless? Just figure out what you want and do it.

There are too many facts to assess, too much knowledge to gain in this world, to waste time in the land of make believe.

Some times I say, "I believe I'll have another cup of coffee," but that's a lie. I know damn well I'm going to.

I was a Mormon and I have learned from my past.

Reminds me of Yoda, "No. Try no. Do or do not. There is no try."

eternal1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reminds me of Yoda, "No. Try no. Do or do not.
> There is no try."
HOW CORRECT YOU ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Believe or don't believe. There is no lie.

"The Belief will set you free!"

   --Judic West, Archduke de Triomphe

It has been my experience that anyone who claims to have talked with God is either full of bologna or was trippin' balls at the time. Either way, Smith didn't sea the god of the Old Testament or Jesus Christ. I actually knew someone who left the church and did a bunch of psychedelics and then he rejoined. When I asked him why he rejoined, he said that he found Jesus while on acid. To each their own I guess.

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is the dilemma:
> Joe jr., without a shred of supporting evidence,
> claimed to have spoken to God and Jesus Christ
> Based on his later propensity for perpetrating
> lies can he be believed?


They NEVER Identified themselves as God and Jesus, did they?

Might it have been "The GOD of This World" - as taught in the Temple? You know, the guy who has you wearing his Apron all the way into the Celestial Room?

Maybe it was him introducing his son, Wardell... or a hired actor?