And she was covered head to toe.

Modesty at 4- to 6-years-old? Who's looking at them at that age?

It would be laughable if heat exhaustion and dated religions weren't real.

Wearing long, loose fitting, light colored clothes in the desert a bad thing. The Saudis know what they're doing when it comes to managing sun exposure.

*isn't a bad thing

Humberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> *isn't a bad thing

The women are wearing jet black abayas in the desert. Jet black.

Yeah, that's the clarification I was fishing for. The color makes a big difference. Black is plain cruel.

I have a number of Muslim friends, most progressives. When we see such a sight we feel good about American freedom of religion and expression and also hope that in a few years she will no longer think it necessary to dress in such garb. There are so many women who wear a hijab or scarf as an indication of ethnic identity as they live otherwise as the normal Americans they have become.

Dreadlocks, cowboy hats, Gucci handbags, crosses, yarmulkes, hijabs, even Jesus’s bolo ties: these are healthy indications of personal history and pride. America is a subversive country that transforms exclusionary practices into stylistic choices.

I know quite a few of women who wear the head scarves. Still a travesty.

Muhammed said to cover women so men wouldn't lust them. Yeah, because of... Men, women are dressed as a voting booth in Islam.

The only things that the Koran says should be covered are 1) women's "bosoms," and 2) their jewelry and adornments--just like the Bible says. There are lots of additional rules that men have subsequently imposed, but they are not koranic and Mohamed did not pronounce them.

More generally, while I agree with you that much of Islam has taken the misogyny to absurd lengths ultimate liberation is for women to make their own choices, men be damned. So if a liberated Muslim wants to wear a head cover in Congress or a hijab in pride of her Iranian heritage in the UK or France or Santa Monica, so be it.

There's also the danger of a double standard here. If you or anyone were to say that Muslim women should abjure the styles of their homeland and hence their ancestors' or even their own religion, you must logically demand the same of women from other cultures. Japanese women must never wear the kimono, which also has misogynistic origins; Chinese women the objectifying qipao; and Western women the wedding ring, which symbolizes ownership, or the long hair long condemned by the Bible. The same would be true of shoulder-covering clothing for an ex-Mormon woman who may feel more comfortable in that conservative dress.

If Western women are free to choose styles of dress and adornment whether or not they align with conservative Christian or Jewish traditions, Muslim women must be given the same freedom to make their own sartorial decisions.

Superb post. Thank you, Lot's Wife.

A few years ago I met a family who were refugees from Syria. The mom wore the head covering even at home. Her two pre-teen girls were looking forward to attaining the age where they too would be dressed like their mom. When they got to know me better the mom would uncover her head when I was visiting but one day when the doorbell rang and a man was coming in she ran to quickly put it back on. It is a deep part of their beliefs and religious practice just as is the prayer they excuse themselves to do in their living room at the prescribed times even when they have Western visitors.

The mom and dad have a loving relationship from what I've observed and are very good-humoured people. The kids are delightful.

Each of us is largely, if not wholly, a product of the area we are born into through no choice or fault of our own.

Our human differences, to me, are what make the world a colourful, interesting place to be.

(It goes without saying that I don't support abnormalities or suppression or cruelty, of course, but cultural differences are what makes the world go 'round, no?)

PS: There is a newsreader on our national network (CBC) who wears a head covering on a mainstream newscast every day. I guess it helps that she is gorgeous but it looks interesting and altogether fabulous. A different colour every day. :)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2021 05:19PM by Nightingale.

Hijab literally means partition and curtain in Arabic. Women, if they practice Islam as written, are to be covered head to toe in drapes.

"ḥijāb was used to denote a partition, a curtain, or was used generally for the Islamic rules of modesty and dress for females."

Also, the burqas and related clothing that you describe as voting booths are required only in a few Muslim countries. The vast majority only require a scarf/hijab. The religion is at least as complex as Christianity and generalizations at least as ill-founded.

From my experience, it varies significantly from one region to the next and depending on events elsewhere: for example, in North Africa and France in the early 80s (when I arrived there and also went to Morocco), hardly any women under the age of 50 wore any headcovering whatsoever. Then "current affairs" caused Islam to become tougher - and when Nicolas Sarkozy decided to ban them in an evident dog-whistle to racists, suddenty 95% of muslim women were wearing them.

I agree that it should be a choice but, in my experience in liberal western societies, it is just as often the woman's choice as it is a male imposition. Also, to put it bluntly, what business is it of mine how women dress? After all, in those same 1980s, I had a large afro with 3 bright red stripes in it...

And to "Charlotte Hampshire" (whose second name is probably Jordan ;-) :

Would it be better if Lot's Wife had said "None of my friends are muslim?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2021 09:09AM by Soft Machine.

Yes, my friend. Charlotte Hampshire is Jordan. So too is the Deepster or Deemster that appeared at the same time.

I guess he got time off from his morning job writing about the royals for the tabloids.

Soft Machine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From my experience, it varies significantly from
> one region to the next and depending on events
> elsewhere: for example, in North Africa and France
> in the early 80s (when I arrived there and also
> went to Morocco), hardly any women under the age
> of 50 wore any headcovering whatsoever. Then
> "current affairs" caused Islam to become tougher -
> and when Nicolas Sarkozy decided to ban them in an
> evident dog-whistle to racists, suddenty 95% of
> muslim women were wearing them.
>
> I agree that it should be a choice but, in my
> experience in liberal western societies, it is
> just as often the woman's choice as it is a male
> imposition. Also, to put it bluntly, what business
> is it of mine how women dress? After all, in those
> same 1980s, I had a large afro with 3 bright red
> stripes in it...
>
> And to "Charlotte Hampshire" (whose second name is
> probably Jordan ;-) :
>
> Would it be better if Lot's Wife had said "None of
> my friends are muslim?"

"Some of my best friends are [whatevers]" is something of a modern cliché.

It also sounds incredibly patronizing as if she's collecting various groups like some kind of human Pokēmon. Got to catch 'em all!

In-appropriation Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Some of my best friends are " is something of a
> modern cliché.

You would know, In-appropriate, that I have described many of my friends and our relationships in this and other threads if you had bothered to read them. But since you insist that you embody your familial legacy from centuries ago, it's a good bet that you have been too busy digging in your bog and losing teeth to get much experience in reading.


---------------
> It also sounds incredibly patronizing as if she's
> collecting various groups like some kind of human
> Pokēmon. Got to catch 'em all!

You don't really mean "incredible," do you? Because it doesn't mean "very."

As for human beings, life has given me experience with all sorts of people and ethnicities. They are my friends and relatives, teachers and students, employers and employees, teammates and inspiration. That's why I respect their sartorial choices and even such greetings as the fist bumps that so exercised your small soul those several years ago.

Do you have a lot of diversity around you, Jordan? Not much, eh?

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------
>
> Dreadlocks, cowboy hats, Gucci handbags, crosses,
> yarmulkes, hijabs, even Jesus’s bolo ties:
> these are healthy indications of personal history
> and pride. America is a subversive country that
> transforms exclusionary practices into stylistic
> choices.

Rendering everything equally meaningless

Not really. What it does is let the individual choose her own personal style and personal meaning, which is what freedom is all about.

college classes started in my town. new students here from places far afield, all across the world.

spotted my first two Muslim women covered from head-to-toe with just the little horizontal mesh rectangle for their vision. light blue cloth

every year i see one or two like this in august a few times then they are not spotted again..do they ditch the garb or find themselves confined to home for the rest of their family member's study?

curious minds want to know

I had a muslim neighbor, a long time ago, who was a here from another country as a student in the US. His wife came when he first did, but went back home after a few weeks. Maybe this is common, and why you don't see them after a while?

I don't imagine any sudden and widespread abandonment of religious beliefs is taking place, but maybe...

There are other options besides abandoning one's faith.

When I was a freshman in college, I was friendly with an Egyptian woman who was very much Muslim. A couple of years later I bumped into her and she was wearing perfectly Western clothing. I inquired and she said that she wasn't as Muslim as she'd been. I didn't pursue the matter but it seemed she was still religiously Muslim. I doubt that is still the case.

Another man I knew was a Sikh and wore his turban for two full years. Then one day he showed up at class with his hair cut, his beard trimmed, and looking quite dashing. Several of us asked what was up, and he said somewhat sheepishly that he had decided to dress as a Westerner even though he was still Sikh. I still see him on international news broadcasts sometimes and he remains tall, dark, and handsome albeit slightly gray.

My point is that in many cases people adjust to the dress patterns of their new cultures. That doesn't mean they left their religions although it may imply less fervency or at least greater openness to the rest of the world. I think it's all good. People make their own choices, and in many if not most cases they become more moderate (some were already moderate) in their feelings about others. I think Americans who live abroad for long periods of time often go through the same very welcome adjustment.

What you say makes sense. My only experience with a Muslim woman "ditching her garb" involved a college classmate who was undergoing a faith transition under opposing pressure from her family. We'd had ongoing discussions about it, and ultimately she showed up to class one day in complete western attire, sans head covering and all. She was beaming with pride and I, as a non-believer who couldn't conceive of a path out of my religion because of the family pressures, was in awe of her bravery.

In any case, regarding the original question, I was considering the context of "in august a few times then they are not spotted again", and it seemed more likely that they just went home.

I'm sure that happened. For some people moving to the West is an immense culture shock and the more conservative of them would inevitably want to go home so their kids can be reared in a traditional manner.

I was stuck in the McDonalds really long drive-up line with my 2 dogs (one is having problems with a stretched muscle or something and wants me around all the time, so I don't get to get out and go in anywhere) and I was switching through radio stations as I was waiting and I happened upon this show between rock stations.

In recent years, I lived in the United Arab Emirates and Qatar for a total of fifteen months.

Let me say it gave me an impression that fundamentally broadened my understanding and appreciation of Islam.

Particularly, I love to connect and share with other people like me who have had extended stays in Muslim countries.

I hung out with some lovely ladies from Dubai in London. No burkas. All nicely dressed in the latest fashions.

OK, here's what chaps my hide: On a hot summer day somewhere in our little touristy slice-of-heaven SoCal coastal town I see a guy and his son wearing shorts and a 49'ers T-shirt, while his wife is covered up completely and pushing the stroller.

That chaps my hide.

I try to be tolerant of most forms of dress, but what bothers me is the requirement that women be covered up, but men not so much. I just get tired of women being treated like objects. There are requirements for women's dress in conservative Islam that the men would never dream of imposing upon themselves.

A 2017 Pew Research poll on Muslims in the US showed their happiness levels were equal with the general population and that they had a desire to adopt US customs. The downside showed that 26% of young Muslims approve suicide bombings in defense of Islam.

Just an FYI for those who wish to truly understand Islam: The Koran is not the only source of Islamic Law or rules. In addition to the Koran and of equal importance as a source of Law is the entire Hadith. This is the sayings and doings of the Prophet Muh...

Islam takes "Follow the Prophet" very very seriously, and in fact Muslims are to not only follow him, but also to see as a RULE what he spoke and did. For example, due to his not liking dogs, most believing Muslims will think unfavorably toward dogs.

The Islamic law manual was translated and published into English in 1991, all except a few sections, by a convert to Islam, Nuh Ha Mim Keller. He translated it for his own use so he could readily look up the rules. The book, in English, is titled "Reliance of the Traveller." The biggest omission in it are the laws on slavery, because this new convert to Islam believed slavery laws weren't relevant in the late 20th Century. New converts often see their religion through Rose-colored glasses, and he certainly did. Nevertheless, this is a mostly comprehensive guide to Sunni Islamic Law. You can find a pdf of it online for free.

Some Excerpts:

HOMOSEXUALITY
p17.2 – 3 “The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:
(1) Kill the one who sodomizes and the one who let it be done to him.
(2) May Allah curse him who does what Lot's people did.
(3) Lesbianism by women is adultery between them.”
This is repeated in 3 other places. There are several lesser hadith stating, "if a man comes upon a man, then they are both adulterers.”


p.278 paragraph p42.0, 42.1, 42.2 A WIFE'S REBELLING AGAINST HER HUSBAND (def: m10.12)

WOMEN WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT:
From the Koran here is the quote of what to do with women who are perceived to be disobedient:
p42.1 Allah Most High says:
"Men are the guardians of women, since Allah has been more generous to one than the other, and
because of what they (men) spend from their wealth. so righteous women will be obedient, and in
absence watchful, for Allah is watchful. And if you fear their intractability, warn them, send them from bed, or hit them.
Note: the original wording is actually Sura 4.34 is “Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made one of them [men] to excel the other [female].” And “4.34 continued “As for those [females] from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart; and scourge (beat) them.”

p42.2 The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:
(1) "Allah will not look at a woman who is ungrateful to her husband, while unable to do without him."
(2) "When a man calls his wife to his bed and she will not come, and he spends the night angry with
her, the angels, curse her until morning."
(3) "It is not lawful for a woman to fast when her husband is present, save by his leave. Nor to
permit anyone into his house except with his permission."
(4) "Whoever leaves her husband's house (A: without his permission), the angels curse her until she
returns or repents."
(Khalil Nahlawi:) It is a condition for the permissibility of her going out (dis: m 10.3-4) that she take no
measures to enhance her beauty, and that her figure is concealed or altered to a form unlikely to draw
looks from men or attract them., Allah Most High says, "Remain in your homes and do not display your beauty as women did in the pre-Islamic period of ignorance" (Koran 33.33).(al-Durar al-mubaha (y99), 160)

p.209 m2.3 A majority of scholars (n: with the exception of some Hanafis, as at m2.8 below) have been recorded as holding that it is unlawful for women to leave the house with faces unveiled


o8.0 APOSTASY FROM ISLAM (RIDDA)
(O: Leaving Islam is the ugliest form of unbelief (kufr) and the worst. It may come about through
sarcasm, as when someone is told, ``Trim your nails, it is sunna,'' and he replies, ``I would not do it even
if it were,'' as opposed to when some circumstance exists which exonerates him of having committed
apostasy, such as when his tongue runs away with him, or when he is quoting someone, or says it out of
fear.)
o8.1 When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed.
o8.2 In such a case, it is obligatory for the caliph (A: or his representative) to ask him to repent and return to Islam. If he does, it is accepted from him, but if he refuses, he is immediately killed.

section o8.7 "Acts that entail leaving Islam" including "(7) to deny any verse of the Koran or anything that by scholarly consensus (def: b7) belongs to it, or to add a verse that does not belong to it."

Quran 2:85 So do you believe in part of the Scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the Day of Resurrection they will be sent back to the severest of punishment. — Quran 2:85

Quran 4:150-151 They say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between - Those are the disbelievers, truly. — Quran 4:150-151

[more verses see https://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/65616/can-one-still-be-a-muslim-if-he-she-denies-some-verses-that-he-she-found-outdate ]


r40.0 MUSIC, SONG, AND DANCE, MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS (p.316)
r40.1 (Ibn Hajar Haytami:) As for the condemnation of musical instruments, flutes, strings, and the like
by the Truthful and Trustworthy (Allah bless him and give him peace), who
``does not speak from personal caprice: it is nothing besides a revelation inspired'' (Koran 53:3-4),
let those who refuse to obey him beware lest calamity strike them, or a painful torment. The Prophet
(Allah bless him and give him peace) said:
(1) ``Allah Mighty and Majestic sent me as a guidance and mercy to believers and commanded me to
do away with musical instruments, flutes, strings, crucifixes, and the affair of the pre-Islamic period of
ignorance.''
(2) ``On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will pour molten lead into the ears of whoever sits listening
to a songstress.''
(3) "Song makes hypocrisy grow in the heart as water does herbage
(4) ``This Community will experience the swallowing up of some people by the earth, metamorphosis
of some into animals, and being rained upon with stones.'' Someone asked, ``When will this be, O
messenger of Allah?'' and he said, ``When songstresses and musical instruments appear and wine is held
to be lawful.''
(5) ``There will be peoples of my Community who will hold fornication, silk, wine, and musical
instruments to be lawful....''
All of this is explicit and compelling textual evidence that musical instruments of all types are
unlawful (Kaff al-ra`a' `an muharramat al-lahw wa al-sama` (y49), 2.269-70).
r40.2 (Nawawi:) It is unlawful to use musical instruments-such as those which drinkers are known for,
like the mandolin, lute, cymbals and flute-or to listen to them. It is permissible to play the tambourine at
weddings, circumcisions, and other times, even if it has bells on its sides. Beating the kuba, a long drum
with a narrow middle, is unlawful (Mughni al-muhtaj ila ma`rifa ma`ani alfaz al-Minhaj (y73)m, 4.429-30).


SINGING UNACCOMPANIED BY MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS (p.316)
r40.3 (Ibn Hajar Haytami:) As for listening to singing that is not accompanied by instruments, one
should know that singing or listening to singing is offensive except under the circumstances to be
mentioned in what follow. Some scholars hold that singing is sunna at weddings and the like, and of our
Imams, Ghazali and `Izzi ibn `Abd al-Salam say that it is sunna if it moves one to a noble state of mind
that makes one remember the hereafter. It is clear from this that all poetry which encourages good
deeds, wisdom, noble qualities, abstinence from this-worldly things, or similar pious traits such as urging one to obey Allah, follow the sunna, or shun disobedience, is sunna to write, sing, or listen to, as more than one of our Imams have stated is obvious, since using a means to do good is itself doing good (kaff al-ra`a` ` an muhar-ramat al-lahw wa al-sama` (y49), 2.273).


o9.0 JIHAD p. 245
(O: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self (nafs), which is why the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said as he was returning from jihad. ``We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad.''
The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus (def: b7) is such Koranic verses as:
(1) ``Fighting is prescribed for you'' (Koran 2:216);
(2) ``Slay them wherever you find them'' (Koran 4:89);
(3) ``Fight the idolators utterly'' (Koran 9:36);
and such hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said: ``I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah'';
and the hadith reported by Muslim,
``To go forth in the morning or evening to fight in the path of Allah is better than the whole world and everything in it. ''Details concerning jihad are found in the accounts of the military expeditions of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), including his own martial forays and those on which he dispatched others. The former consist of the ones he personally attended, some twenty-seven (others say twenty-nine) of them. He fought in eight of them, and killed only one person with his noble hand, Ubayy ibn Khalaf, at the battle of Uhud. On the latter expeditions he sent others to fight, himself remaining at Medina, and these were forty-seven in number.)

THE OBJECTIVES OF JIHAD
o9.8 The caliph (o25) makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians (N: provided he has first invited them to enter Islam in faith and practice, and if they will not, then invited them to enter the social order of Islam by paying the non-Muslim poll tax (jizya, def: o11.4)-which is the significance of their paying it, not the money itself-while remaining in their ancestral religions) (O: and the war continues) until they become Muslim or else pay the non-Muslim poll tax (O: in accordance with the word of Allah Most High,

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day and who forbid not what Allah and His messenger have forbidden-who do not practice the religion of truth (Koran 9.29),


THE NON-MUSLIM POLL TAX
o11.4 The minimum non-Muslim poll tax is one dinar (n: 4.235 grams of gold) per person (A: per year). The maximum is whatever both sides agree upon


o14.0 THE PENALTY FOR THEFT (p.251)
O14.1 A person's right hand is amputated, whether he is a Muslim, non-Muslim subject of the Islamic state, or someone who has left Islam, when he:
(a) has reached puberty;
(b) is sane;
(c) is acting voluntarily;
(d) and steals at least a quarter of a dinar (n: 1.058 grams of gold) or goods worth that much.

PROHIBITION ON MAKING PICTURES (drawing, painting, photographing, TV, movies)
p44.1 The Prophet (Allah bless-him and give him peace) said: (1) 'Every maker of pictures will go to the fire, where a being will be set upon him for each picture he made, to torment him in hell."
(2) "Whoever makes an image shall be required (on the Last Day) to breathe a spirit into it, but will
never be able to do so."
(n: Other hadith evidence appears at w50, which discusses legal questions relating to the artistic,
photographic, and televisual depiction of animate life.)

What is the Penalty?
section o8.7 "Acts that entail leaving Islam" including "(7) to deny any verse of the Koran or anything that by scholarly consensus (def: b7) belongs to it, or to add a verse that does not belong to it."

These are times when the ruling derived from a verse is not applicable as there is another text which overrides it. Among such cases are:
• Naskh (abrogation) is when one verse is abrogated by another.
The gradual prohibition of wine abrogated earlier revealed verses. Another example of abrogation are the verses regarding war. It is well known that it was initially forbidden, and the Muslims were commanded to forgive

The Hadith is nowhere near as important as the Koran. Children do not memorize it in madrassas, its verses do not adorn mosques, and Islamic study groups do not read it.

Read your own link. What do the main questions ask? They ask if someone can be a good Muslim if s/he doesn't accept some verses of the Koran. That indicates that your reliance on the Hadith is misplaced.

Muslims may take the words of the prophet seriously, but they take them from the Koran and not the Hadith. Nor is there a single interpretation of the Koran that every Muslim accepts or lives by. Your mischaracterizations do not lead to a better understanding of such a complex phenomenon.

I apologize, Lot’s Wife, for writing that wasn’t specific. I am taking the information regarding the importance of the Hadith from a former Muslim, a professor and scholar. He was raised Muslim in a country that considers itself an Islamic state. In referring back to what he wrote regarding the Hadith, I find that I probably was incorrect in using the words “equal importance as a source of Law”

Here is what the Islamic scholar wrote, quote:

Perhaps nonspecialists and non-Muslims do not sufficiently appreciate how greatly the hadith is revered in the Islamic world. "The Hadith is held in great reverence next to the Koran throughout the whole [Islamic] world. . . . In some cases it is even believed that the actual word of God is to be found in the Hadith as well as in the Koran." These books of tradition serve as the theoretical basis for Islamic law and hence Islam itself.

End of Quote.

Let's be respectful of delusional insanity.

Can't we mount a similar defense of the past 4 years in America? Or can we just say it's nuts?

It's a crazy we have to live with. But it's crazy to the bone.

Legalism, the enemy to the simple expression of faith.

Like with most religions, the "good" ones are the people who ignore and cherry pick what is actually written.

The problem is, they never repudiate the harmful verses and laws in any real way. How do you redline and footnote the hideous and insidious teachings in holy writs? They "interpret" it how they want while the more extreme ones follow what is actually written. They both think they are following the religion according to what God wants.

I am no fan of any religion or custom that has more stringent rules for women (dress or behavior) than it does for men.

https://news.yahoo.com/taliban-brutally-killed-popular-afghan-122524484.html

cultural differences or a misreading of a text?

Where are the grammar police?

Hey, God is not into music after all that organ and choir singing. He could hardly stand the chants.

    Why do Bedouins wear black in the desert?

    The question so intrigued four scientists – all non-Bedouins – that they ran an experiment.  Their study, called Why Do Bedouins Wear Black Robes in Hot Deserts?, was published in the journal Nature in 1980.

    "It seems likely," the scientists wrote, "that the present inhabitants of the Sinai, the Bedouins, would have optimized their solutions for desert survival during their long tenure in this desert.  Yet one may have doubts on first encountering Bedouins wearing black robes and herding black goats.  We have therefore investigated whether black robes help the Bedouins to minimize solar heat loads in a hot desert."

    The research team – C Richard Taylor and Virginia Finch of Harvard University and Amiram Shkolnik and Arieh Borut of Tel Aviv University – quickly discovered that, as you might suspect, a black robe does convey more heat inward than a white robe does.  But they doubted that this was the whole story.

    Taylor, Finch, Shkolnik, and Borut measured the overall heat gain and loss suffered by a volunteer.  They described the volunteer as "a man standing facing the sun in the desert at midday while he wore: 1) a black Bedouin robe; 2) a similar robe that was white; 3) a tan army uniform; and 4) shorts (that is, he was semi‑nude)".

    Each of the test sessions (black-robed, white-robed, uniformed and half-naked) lasted 30 minutes.  They took place in the Negev desert at the bottom of the rift valley between the Dead Sea and the Gulf of Eilat.  The volunteer stood in temperatures that ranged from a just-semi-sultry 35C (95F) to a character-building 46C (115F).  

    The results were clear.  As the report puts it: "The amount of heat gained by a Bedouin exposed to the hot desert is the same whether he wears a black or a white robe.  The additional heat absorbed by the black robe was lost before it reached the skin."

    Bedouins' robes, the scientists noted, are worn loose.  Inside, the cooling happens by convection – either through a bellows action, as the robes flow in the wind, or by a chimney sort of effect, as air rises between robe and skin.  Thus it was conclusively demonstrated that, at least for Bedouin robes, black is as cool as any other color.


https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/aug/19/most-improbable-scientific-research-abrahams


ETA the original published material:  https://www.nature.com/articles/283373a0



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2021 01:24PM by elderolddog.