Diversity is NOT divisiveness.

“ This past Monday, I experienced another flood of messages. Within an hour of your remarks, three current BYU students expressed to me how unsafe and scared they felt knowing that church leaders instructed the university’s faculty to use metaphorical “musket fire” to defend the “doctrine of the family” and push back against LGBTQ+ inclusion.

I don’t personally know most of the people who have reached out to me, but I do know what it feels like to be in their shoes.”

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2021/08/27/matt-easton-elder-holland/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2021 05:31PM by schrodingerscat.

Wow, what a letter. This Easton character is a helluva man: strong, smart, and polished.

Yes! The one easily outclasses the other. No question about it.

On a related note (I don’t know if this Pat Bagley cartoon has been shared yet):

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/bagley/2021/08/27/bagley-cartoon-out-step/

Russ will send Holland on an extended assignment to Siberia. Dammit Jeff! Muskets? Really?

it's time for a few apostalates to go on Emeritus Status.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2021 07:33PM by GNPE.

Holland seems to be a sanctimonious hypocritical bigot
What think ye?

Holland has fantasies that go back to his childhood that are very dear to him. Fantasies being the key word here. Jeff wants BYU to be this perfectly Mormon institution the world will be in aw of. That’s the fantasy. He explained it in his talk. He doesn’t like a bunch of people who have lifestyles or beliefs he objects to polluting his sacred institution. He views BYU as a fortress that needs to be defended because dammit! That white Y on the mountain is something special. When that thing lit up in rainbow colors Holland probably put a fist through a wall.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That
> white Y on the mountain is something special. When
> that thing lit up in rainbow colors Holland
> probably put a fist through a wall.

That White Y might as well be a great big KKK.
Lighting it up in gay rainbow colors is probably like drawing a cartoon of Allah to a Muslim.

In short. Holland’s talk was, “We need to work together to defend the fort!” BYU is under siege in his mind. It’s Captain Holland vs the LBGTQ+. Now we get to see if General Russ reels his dog in or says fire at will commander!

Maybe Jeffrey Holland should go out in disgrace like Paul Dunn did.

And I liked Paul Dunn. I can't say the same of Holland. Dunn's problem was that he couldn't tell truth from faction, even in his own life stories.

I think Holland is headed to a rubber room like Chief Inspector Dreyfus in the Pink Panther movies. Everyday and in every way I keep getting better and better. Then something gay will trigger Jeff and he will start talking about muskets.

While fully prepared to be flamed (is that term passe' now?) I had a thought about whether his announcement about being gay was a calculated pronouncement, but I suspect many BYU valedictorian speeches have had many references to getting married. Of course, grad' speeches have al kinds of interesting things said. I gave a speech and I was an idiot.

Fire away!

May I borrow your weapon? I didn't bring mine to this garden party.

I think Holland is a Loose Cannon; I'm betting that, at least in public, Russ won't comment on Holland's talk/speech/remarks.

That's the safe thing to do, but Who Knows what the lighted pen will reveal (or what will Wendy write while Russ is asleep, wake up, and say: LOOK WHAT YOU WERE INSPIRED TO WRITE IN YOUR SLEEP!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2021 12:37AM by GNPE.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2021/08/27/byu-will-investigate/

"Brigham Young University will investigate a confrontation that happened across the street from the school Thursday night when a man dumped a bottle of water on chalk art messages drawn in support of LGBTQ students and shouted a homophobic slur at some gathered there.

The video that she shot and shared on social media shows the man taking the large bottle and dumping it out on a rainbow next to the word “love.” The colors quickly fade and wash away.

One of Sorensen’s friends, shocked at what the man was doing, can be heard in the video saying: “I’m feeling a little less homophobic than that.”

The man responds, using a slur. “Oh no, f------ go to hell,” he spits."

BYU's response?
“There is no place for hateful speech, or prejudice of any kind, on our campus or in our community,” added the school, which is sponsored by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Did they clear that with Dodo Holland?

About 10 years ago I was on the search committee for a new minister for our (Unitarian) church. We settled on two candidates that we brought in for a full candidating week, along with their spouses/partners. One was a guy with a gay partner (now husband) and he told us his partner was mormon. Naturally, I couldn't wait to meet him. When I did, everybody would laugh because the two of us talked so much and one person said "it's like you two are talking a foreign language and you know exactly what the other one is talking about and we don't get the references at all."

He was from Logan, Utah, but at the time lived in Nashville. He told us about telling his mother and his mormon family that he was gay. His father had passed and he was the oldest child. His mother had insisted he go to Nashville for a year to a design school he was interested in before he made the decision of whether to go on a mission. He didn't pick up on his mother's ulterior motives (so he could figure out his sexuality).

He came back to Utah and got up the courage to drop the "no mission, I'm gay" bomb on his mother. He said his mother looked at him and said "I know. I have always known. And I've always been afraid for you--not for your salvation but for your happiness and your safety." By the time we met them, they had been in a relationship for quite some time and the ministerial candidate said he'd never felt anything but love and acceptance from the mormon family. We were all crying when he told his story, none more than me who understood how rare that was, especially then. I've heard of mormon families since then who have really rallied around their LGBTQ kids. They have a lot they could teach these so-called mouthpieces of God.

Damn it, who got the job?

But if it wasn’t the Gay guy, I don’t want to know…

What a lovely story. And when I say that I still speak fluent Mormonese, that is what I am referring to - I can make all the allusions that Mormons will understand, and they can do the same with me, and outsiders will think we are speaking a foreign language.

I think Holland is more like Inspector Javert than a character in a Pink Panther movie. Of course Oaks is even more of a Javert.

I wonder if Holland was assigned by the Q15 to make the remarks he made, or if he went rogue. I'm sure his remarks reflect the general feelings of the Q15, but I am not so sure he was supposed to make them so public.

In any case, the blowback was stiff enough (and I hardly think it is over yet) that I expect some backpedalling after sufficient time has elapsed so that it doesn't look like backpedalling.

accept gays as they are. I have talked to SO MANY ex-wives of someone gay. Do they think these families work? Oh, I know there are some out there who are still together. I wouldn't say they "work." The church destroyed what I thought family was. They destroyed it for my children, too, let alone my husband. Somehow we've made a family, but we had to leave the church and accept my husband as gay. He has his boyfriend. I have my boyfriend. And we coparent and share the house we bought when the kids weren't even a year old and they'll soon be 36.

They NEED TO STOP the PAIN for EVERYONE INVOLVED in this mess THEY PERPETUATE. I look forward to reading what he wrote in the morning. I'm doing 'stat" reports for surgeries in the morning and I'm waiting for the next report to be finished. Sure wish they'd dictate earlier.

Mormonism is a conformist institution. Period. It's not just about being perfect like Jesus, it's about everyone being perfectly identical — identical to the leaders.

(I was so tired, I didn't even remember that I posted on here.)

I don't think that Holland came up with this idea himself. So many members want to believe that they'll come around. I was 25 when I found out he is gay. I'm 64 now. They don't say they are damned now just for having the "feelings," but they are damned if they choose to participate in a gay relationship of any type. So be alone the rest of your lives. Marry a woman or male and make them "happy." F up some more lives why don't we.

Mormonism spouts hate. You either FIT IN on their terms or you don't. My cousin, who I know is gay because my mom told me--he is her sister's son and I'm not supposed to know. I just got his THIRD wedding invite in the mail Saturday. He 56 or so. He has one child from his first marriage. This wedding isn't in the temple this time. His last marriage lasted 2 years.

cl2notloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think that Holland came up with this idea
> himself.

Agreed. As I've remarked elsewhere, the Q15 decides on major policy/doctrine speeches. Holland has his role and plays it in a loyal if lachrymose manner.

I think Holland is now damaged goods. Gerritt Gong will be the next one tasked to fall on his sword.

There goes Dieter, next is Jeffery. . .

So the Q15 really is the Gong Show?

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lachrymose manner.

That is a delicious word.

What they should have done is be truthful if they indeed receive a letter. They should admit that their big time BYU donors hate gay people and if the school doesn't become more bigoted and homophobic then the donations will go elsewhere.

If I was a professor, I would truly be terrified of losing my position. The whole spying and tattle telling is really bad. It sounds as bad as how my 2 year mission was. Not knowing who has your back was nerve wracking.