A (nevermo) family member of mine drove drunk, caused a big crash and two people are dead...he is looking at 10-20 years in jail and I am wrecked...blghhghgh

I am so sorry. What a dreadful situation. That must be causing anguish for your entire family.

"That must be causing anguish for your entire family"

I'm sure their anguish is nowhere near what the victims families of the dead are experiencing.

stillanon Wrote:
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> "That must be causing anguish for your entire
> family"
>
> I'm sure their anguish is nowhere near what the
> victims families of the dead are experiencing.

I'm sure no one is disputing that the victims' families are suffering. I see nothing wrong with acknowledging that families of those who screw up also suffer anguish. It's a rough situation all the way around.

stillanon Wrote:
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> I'm sure their anguish is nowhere near what the victims families of the dead are experiencing.

That rather goes without saying it, doesn't it? Yet I wasn't responding to the victims' families. I was responding to the OP, who along with his family, is also feeling pain. I was not trying to equate the two, and I'm surprised that anyone would think I was.

That's a pretty big bad "screw up". It is undoubtedly a very tough situation for his family members.

Too though, of course, his actions have severely negatively impacted two other families and all their friends and acquaintances, for all the rest of their lives too, and it's tragic for those who lost their lives.

A relative of mine drove drunk once and totalled my car. We were fortunate that was the only casualty.

It's a terrible thing to do and the consequences can be horrific for everyone involved.

I'm sorry for your pain. You're another casualty of his actions. Seems like he'll have a very long time to think about what he did. The bloody booze is never worth it.

Not that it matters a whit in terms of the sun rising tomorrow, but realize that those two fatalities have loved ones who may be more deserving of our pity, who are living with even more unanswered/unanswerable questions, and who really can’t be criticized for believing your family member is getting off easy.

Drunk/impaired driving is pretty much a choice, so . . .

I am interested in why YOU feel “wrecked”. I’m a spoiled, only-child and there’s a lot I don’t know about “family”.

That is sad. But life goes on. Except for the deceased, which at least you don't have to live with.

Is it inappropriate for me to be laughing while reading this thread?

Maybe God inspired him to drink and caused the crash because he needed the two spirits to help teach missionary lessons in Spirit Prison?

I am not impressed with the manner in which ghawd recruits.

I call first dibs on temple work.

My brother got gusted in New Orleans at Mardi Gras for "Reviling the Police." Now that's a hoot!

Would you consider asking your brother what he did specifically that was charged as "reviling the police"? If I'm ever truly bored or seriously drunk, I might want to try it.

Yup. My cousin's son has done a couple stretches in the slammer.

Yep I've got a relative who can't leave his ex alone. So they keep locking him up, but he doesn't learn. And he gets locked up again. The legal system is failing him and the rest of us tax payers. But the money keeps flowing around and the bureaucrats and credentialed professionals and secretaries downtown always get paid. It's a racket!

Let me get this straight. You've got a relative who won't leave his ex alone and so he keeps getting arrested and thrown in jail. But wait, it's the system that's failing him and it's all just a money making proposition for the "bureaucrats and credentialed professionals and secretaries"? Perhaps your relative could muster a little personal responsibility and stop the cycle himself?????? It'd be a win for all sides, wouldn't it?

Wow.

What are you proposing? Capital punishment?

Man even the secretaries are in on it...

Chicks stick together

I initially thought this was intended to be a joke, but then I looked again and saw whose response it was. If the relative is a victim of anything, it would be of his own lack of self-control and his own inability to take responsibility for his actions.

Exactly.

And using police and judicial resources to protect the victims of domestic violence, stalking, etc., is unequivocally appropriate. I'm not sure macaRomney's values belong in either this or the previous century.

Once I looked at the responder's name, I thought briefly about whether his point was that the system had failed the relative by not locking him up for longer and/or for failure to provide adequate mental health care, or if mcR thought "the system" was remiss in not rounding up the relative's woman and forcing her to go back to the relative. Just thinking about it was giving me a headache (I'm really not all that cerebral but have impressive manual dexterity, which is one reason I'm a surgeon and not a diagnostician), so I moved on.

Were they married in the church? If so, the church should pay to have her relocated. Obsessive exes are like The Terminator. They don't stop.

I wonder how open the church is to doing the right thing.

Or does he just get locked up and released, over and over, like a San Francisco shoplifter?

When The Mormon who beat me almost to death was in jail his Mormon family needed him to be in the photographs for a family dinner so they bailed him out.

His mother called me a few days later because they didn't realize they couldn't just sign him out and then take him back to jail after the family dinner and now they couldn't get rid of him.


I never knew anyone, much less an entire gene pool, could be so stupid.

Why did the guy's mother call you? Was it just to give you a heads-up that the guy was out on bail, or did she actually expect you to do something about their situation?

She dropped him back off at my house. Of course it was my fault that he beat me up and before he got out two missionaries and stake president dropped by at 9:45 at night to try to strong arm me into dropping the charges. If I hadn't had a friend there checking on me I have no idea what they might have done.
If you look up the phrase creamscheme you'll meet all of his relatives. A number of them are already in prison along with a number of colleagues they took down with them after perpetrating the largest health care fraud scam ever in America.

The Mississippi thing? Was there a Mormon connection to that?

siobhan Wrote:
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> She dropped him back off at my house. Of course it
> was my fault that he beat me up and before he got
> out two missionaries and stake president dropped
> by at 9:45 at night to try to strong arm me into
> dropping the charges. If I hadn't had a friend
> there checking on me I have no idea what they
> might have done.
> If you look up the phrase creamscheme you'll meet
> all of his relatives. A number of them are already
> in prison along with a number of colleagues they
> took down with them after perpetrating the largest
> health care fraud scam ever in America.

Yes. Masterminded by a mormon.

Was the mastermind in the deep South, too, or working remotely from elsewhere?

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2257979,2257985,quote=1

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/compounding-pharmacy-mogul-sentenced-multimillion-dollar-health-care-fraud-scheme

"Wade Ashley Walters, 54, of Hattiesburg, a co-owner of numerous compounding pharmacies and pharmaceutical distributors, was sentenced today on his guilty plea to one count of conspiracy to commit health care fraud and one count of conspiracy to commit money laundering."

What were Walters' past callings?

Possibly bishopric counselor

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1763814

Story doesnt identify by name

Here are two atricles from mormon publications bragging on him

https://www.deseret.com/2013/2/19/20514580/former-nfl-qb-brett-favre-joins-with-lds-church-members-in-tornado-cleanup-effort

https://latterdaysaintmag.com/article-1-12258/

Amazing.

They scammed Brett Favre into endorsing their pain cream. They slithered close to him during that tornado relief effort.

Just the opposite. Most my mom’s side of the family were cops.

Yes, a step-brother of mine was a rapist. He would get out of jail on parole in one state and move as soon as he could to another state where he once again committed rape. He had jail stints in 3 states.

It wasn't until after my mother died that I discovered he really wasn't the son of my step-father. Turns out he was born to my Step-father's first wife, but she had been raped. He was the son of a rapist. None of us knew this growing up, and it was a shock to learn this.

Wow. I'm curious. Did stepbrother know of the circumstances of his origin prior to committing any rapes? It's interesting to speculate as to whether the outcome may have been more heavily influenced by genetics, self-fulfilling prophecy, lack of nurture, or other compounding factors.

Interesting questions. Ironically, I just got home from seeing "Malignant" at the drive-in theater with my daughters. I won't ruin the story, but one detail is that the protagonist and boogy man are children of rape.

In answer to your question:
NO. My stepbrother did not know that his mother gave birth to him as a result of being raped. None of us kids knew.
I only found out many years later when I read what mother had written. It was a secret and he was raised just as one of us, as a good LDS kid.

In my opinion it is genetics that influenced him.

Thanks.

Fortunately not as bad as killing someone, but my half-sister has been locked up more times than I can count. DUI (multiple), leaving the scene of an accident, assault and battery (multiple, including "upon a family member"), etc. As a teenager she was banned from the local bowling alley for brawling, and banned from the shopping mall for shoplifting. She's a class act.

Also have had to go down to the hoosegow to pick up my dad who'd been hauled in for getting into some kind of altercation with a lady in the grocery store parking lot. My stepmother asked me to go pick him up. I did and didn't ask for any more details, and don't know how it ended. I just know that they let him go home about midnight, and she asked me to go down and pick him up.


I used to love going to Christmas Eve services in my hometown at an Episcopal Church were I sang in the choir for about a decade before moving to "the big city." Love the Christmas music and all the pomp and circumstance. It was sort of the highlight of being home for the holidays. One year I missed it because I wasted the evening bailing my half-sister out of jail. My folks were way past doing it, trying to practice tough love, and I should have followed their lead. She wasn't worth the effort.

I don't even go home for the holidays any more. Since my dad passed away, my stepmother and half-sister have pretty much destroyed any semblance of family, and with my half-sister's propensity towards violence, I don't want to be around her, let alone bring my daughters around her.

I thought my sister was wild. The most noteworthy thing she did of which I'm aware was when she got a DUI after crashing into the Brick Oven Pizza sign in Provo with her over-sized pickup. Fortunately, it was about 3:00 a.m, and no one else was around to be harmed.

She has since reformed, is married to a Mormon dentist who has, if possible, less common sense than she has, and is raising six nice little Mormon daughters.

Your half-sister beats my sister by leaps and bounds.

A Mormon dentist. Jackpot!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2021 03:19AM by Lot's Wife.

scmd1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your half-sister beats my sister by leaps and
> bounds.


My half-sister is a bonafide monster, complete with official diagnosis of Antisocial Personality Disorder (and is a textbook case of it).

For example, when my dad died 7 years ago, she emailed my wife and I that we were "forbidden" to visit. That's laughable because she had no authority as such. My brothers and I from my dad's first marriage actually owned the house, and we also still got along fine with her mother, our stepmother, at that time.

Shortly after my dad passed, I had a two-year cancer fight (all clear now), and I never heard from her once. Didn't expect to, but got an angry email from her when I did not respond to a family broadcast email about her boyfriend getting a root canal. By coincidence, I had had a root canal only a few weeks earlier, and also no response from her on my "family" message.

As if life couldn't get worse, my wife was diagnosed with cancer. Surprisingly, she did hear from my half-sister, but it was to tell her "you got what you deserve."

Along the way she's managed to destroy relationships between everyone, including me and my brothers, and her mother defends her at any and all cost.

By the time my wife passed away -- 4 years after my dad -- not a single "family" member came to her memorial. Not one. Later, after my half-sister's husband d̶r̶o̶v̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶a̶ ̶b̶r̶i̶d̶g̶e̶ ̶p̶i̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶f̶r̶e̶e̶w̶a̶y̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶e̶d̶ "had a heart attack" while driving, she lashed out at me for not going to his funeral. She also lashed out at me because I hadn't attended their wedding a few months earlier. I hadn't been notified, let alone invited, but reality doesn't matter. Somehow it was my fault that I wasn't there.

By the way, it's not just me. In the same horrible span of time, my brother was married and tragically passed less than a year later. Half-sister didn't attend either his wedding or his funeral, but was equally angry that his daughter, who's received the same sort of treatment, didn't come to her wedding or her husband's funeral. Now that I'm thinking about it, half-sister didn't attend the niece's wedding either...

To bring this back around to being "forbidden" to visit home (sorry for the rant), my half-sister emailed me last Winter to tell me I was "f#$%'ed up" for "keeping Mrs. Stinky away from everyone" while she was dying, because they "loved her too." No recollection of herself "forbidding" us to come, or allowing my wife the agency to choose not to see them given how she was mistreated.

She literally thinks she can rewrite history, from forbidding us to come and telling my late wife that cancer is what she deserved, to "loving" and "missing" her. The reality is it's just one more "accusation" she can hurl at me, blame shifting. It's the story she tells back home about why Gordon never visits, and she's so crazy that she doesn't realize that she can't tell her version to ME without me knowing it's nothing but antisocial gaslighting and B.S.

Like most sociopaths, she can be cute and charming (right up until she isn't), so many people buy it. But many don't (I still hear on FB from many family friends and church folks about her antics). Now, when people ask me why I "never come home" I just send the link to her rap sheet in the online judicial system.


It's all about perspective. Only the sociopath's concerns matter. Their mole hills are mountains, and your mountains don't matter. They will "crush" and "destroy" you over the tiniest "infraction." Your life and welfare don't matter. You're just meant to be a useable backdrop to their imaginary life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2021 05:12PM by Gordon B. Stinky.

Sounds completely horrific, GBS. So sorry to read all of this. You don't deserve any of it.

Cutting off contact, as you've done, seems like the only option. There's no hope of change.

Thanks, Nightengale. No, there's no changing her. All I can do is stay away. I choose to stay away from my brothers too, but only because they're insufferable and irritating. This one is worse then that though, because there's also a genuine danger associated with her.

Yes, you should definitely cut off contact....
Have you read the book "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout?

No, but I've read quite a bit about narcissism, NPD, APD, sociopathy, psychopathy, etc. My sister has actually been diagnosed, so it's legit, but I suspect my older brother is way off the charts too. There's no doubt about his extreme narcism, but I think he's probably a sociopath. He's been caught multiple times cheating on his wife, trying to cheat his brother-in-law financially, trying to cheat me and our other siblings financially, etc. When anyone "disagrees" with him he gets angry. I've seen his wife run to grab the blood pressure gauges when his ex-wife calls, or other disagreements arise. My TBM brother told me that the older brother even ended up in the hospital after reading an email that angered him, and he was apparently so wound up that he couldn't even press 911 on the phone. His rage viscerally overcomes him because he simply can't accept that other people have a right to disagree with him!

Anyway, I'm getting into the weeds... I've decided to stop reading about this stuff, because what it does is mentally drag me back into all the craziness. I can find all the affirmation I need in the explanations, but at this point I want to let it go and simply avoid the histrionics.

       I'm kinda not of the same opinion, and I thank you for the validation!

I like your logic on this! ;)

Your half-sister sounds like someone straight out of Oxygen Network programming. I would be afraid to be related to her.

Yep. I used to intend to retire in my hometown, but she is the single biggest reason that I don't want to do that now. The others are a nuisance. This one could have a meltdown violent rage in a restaurant, or store, or on the road. There's no telling.

I'm the only one who lived at home with her when she was young. Older brother had moved out and younger brothers lived with our mother. I also moved home again for a couple years later to finish my undergraduate degree, and then she lived with me for a while after turning 18. So... I used to think we had a "special bond," even after her world started going crazy, but I realized later that I was just falling for her phony charm and affectations.

FWIW, at this point I live 550 miles away. :)

Your half sister sounds like one who really would have been well described had the committee that approves entries for the DSM actually kept up with the science and approved an entry for the scientific diagnosis of "Psychopath."

Have you seen the following list:

https://psychopathyis.org/what-is-a-psychopath/

1. Excess Glibness or superficial charm
2. Grandiose sense of self-worth
3. Excess need for stimulation or proneness to boredom
4. pathological lying
5. cunning and manipulativeness
6. lack of remorse or guilt
7. shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness) [although they are extremely skilled at PRETENDING and ACTING to mimic emotional responses so that they fool experts]

8. callousness and lack of empathy [Psychopaths just don't care when bad things happen to other people]
9. parasitic lifestyle [Psychopaths prefer not to work for a living. They feel it is easier to take stuff from other people]
10. poor behavioral controls
11. sexual promiscuity [Psychopaths like one-night stands]
12. early behavior problems [As children, psychopaths often have a history of cruelty to others]
13. lack of realistic long-term goals [Psychopaths prefer crazy schemes over life or career goals]
14. impulsivity
15. irresponsibility [Psychopaths aren't big on doing the right thing]
16. failure to accept responsibility for own actions
17. many short-term marital relationships [an inability to commit to, or repeatedly betray, long-term relationships]
18. juvenile delinquency [skipping school (truancy)
19. revocation of conditional release [Even when psychopaths catch a break — like being let out of prison on probation — they tend to go back to committing crimes]
20. criminal versatility [Psychopaths differ from normal criminals because they don't really care which type of laws they break — they'll break any of them, under the right circumstances]

To score, Answer each Q on a scale of
0 = item does not apply, 1 = item applies somewhat, 2 = item definitely applies

Anyone who scores 30 and above is probably a psychopath.

From https://www.encyclopedia.com/medicine/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/hare-psychopathy-checklist

Interesting check list. I gave her a one or a two on everything but 17. Frankly, I should probably give her a one because although she's only been married once, she could never maintain a longterm dating relationship, or friendships.

Anyway, per the list, I gave her a 31.

My twin sister contacted me after many years of extrangement and wanted to give me our “family heirlooms,” since she is now leaving her husband and won’t have room for them. I agreed (with suspicion). I went to her lawyer with her and caught her in numerous lies. After that I went home and decided to look in my basement full of her boxes. The “family heirlooms” turned out to treasures of HIS family including significant components to collections and even the portrait of his mother —-stuff taken in visiousness.

DH and I ran his belongings back to him, and told her to never come near me again or i’d get law enforcement involved. Her name on the police log already looks like “Smith” in the white pages.

I’ve always been thankful that she and I are not identical.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2021 04:04PM by kathleen.

Wow, that was so good of you to get his things right back to him. She even took a pic of his mother, that is cold. Says a lot about her. I bet he is happy to be divorced!

It's funny how with people like this your radar instantly goes up when something out of the ordinary happens (for example, in my family, I know when I've been the subject of discussion, because I'll hear from multiple people in quick succession, when I usually hear from no one).

And how obsessed and greedy they can be about stuff. And deceitful. For some reason, my dad wanted me to have his desk. It was annotated on the property list of his trust as given to me. But I never got it. My step mother said that she couldn't give it to me "because it was still in the house when he died." Then I discovered 4 years later, that my older brother -- who made a big production of retrieving and mailing me the single thing I did ask for -- had it the whole time and never mentioned it it to me ("Oh yeah, Gordon, what do you want to do about the desk?"). I'd even been to town multiple times, and could have picked it up.

My stepmother moved it and a bunch of other stuff into a mini storage that he had access to, and he apparently helped himself to it. He claims his lawyer says that he "acquired it legally."

No immediate family jailbirds but I've got a few cousins who have. One of them who is in his 60s now started out at 15 with grand theft auto and rose from there. Now that he's older he's become a lot mellower. Gone are his hell-raising days. I guess he finally learned from his wasted life.

For years I was very hesitant to tell people I was related to him. Ya know, guilty by association/bloodline. However, I never "associated" with him anyway. I was cool with his siblings but he was always in and out of jail/prison during my life.

But talk about things which should have gotten his attention....one time a guy shot him with a sawed-off at close range. He wore a colostomy bag for a while but lived.

That was just one incident where he was shot or stabbed. I've never seen him w/o a shirt but his body must be heavily scarred.

"And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee."

I spent a few nights in jail as a minor, never as an adult. My last arrest was for breaking into the school grounds with three other boys--miscreants. I was seventeen.

Nugget, I’m glad you weren’t in the car with him.

You say you are “wrecked.” I’d be emotionally wrecked, too. But, also, I’m wondering what all you mean by “wrecked”—-if his incarnation has wrecked your or your children’s financial security. I hope you and all involved on both sides of this tragedy will be able to manage temporally, and be able to stay on your feet while healing from the loss of loved ones.

Our son had been to jail 12 times (that we know of). He would receive summons for thefts, assaults or sexual assaults. Then he would go about his life with no fixed address (aka homeless).

Eventually the judicial system grew wise to his tactics and held him on remand (not release to appear). So our son adapted his strategy to theirs. He grew to like being on remand: when you're homeless and unemployed getting free housing and meals is not a hardship.

Plus, there's a bonus: in Canada remand time was counted double at sentencing (since repealed). His technique for avoiding sexual assault charges was to wait in remand until the victim would decide that charges would be pointless because the judge will likely release him on time served. But since he hasn't been convicted, it doesn't become part of his criminal record and he doesn't have to register as a sex offender.

Finally he met his match when a woman refused to drop her complaint. Later I asked my son what he learned. "I should have let her keep the beer in the morning," was all he said.