https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-deliver-six-step-plan-covid-19-pandemic-2021-09-09/

I guess that’s include LDS Inc?

Companies could face thousands of dollars in fines for each employee who does not comply.

Enforcement is the question.
How do you enforce that?
What about religious exemptions?
Do anti-vaxers who have religious exemptions get to come to work and put public and co-workers at risk?

Not if you work at United Airlines.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/08/united-airlines-staff-granted-religious-exemptions-to-vaccine-mandate-will-be-put-on-unpaid-leave.html



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2021 03:45PM by schrodingerscat.

Will Hobby Lobby and Chick-Fil-A file an injunction on behalf of religious freedom?

We don't have medical or religious exemptions in B.C. at the moment. A proof-of-vaccine card program is being implemented now and within a week or so, unvaccinated people will not be able to enter "non-essential" businesses and services. They will be able to access those designated as "essential" such as medical centres and food shops - however, masks are mandatory in those facilities. Therefore, you can decline the vaccines but not the mask-wearing unless you can get along without any of the above - perhaps someone can do your shopping for you.

However, unvaccinated folks can attend religious services (I guess they're designated as essential?) However, mask-wearing is mandated for those, as far as I know.

The bottom line is to try to accommodate people's needs and beliefs and vaccine status while attempting to keep spread of the virus to an absolute minimum as far as is humanly possible.

One important point that is not stressed enough, imho, is that the measures and restrictions are meant to be temporary. If the case numbers decline and stay low then Public Health can gradually ease up on the restrictions.

I don't see how people can reasonably argue with this approach (but some will, I know).


Here's an outline in a CTV News article, August 24, 2021:

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/no-medical-or-religious-exemptions-for-b-c-s-vaccine-passport-system-1.5558423

Excerpts:

"People who can't get vaccinated against COVID-19 for medical reasons won't be exempt from B.C.’s upcoming vaccine passport system, nor will those who choose not to get immunized for religious reasons.

"Provincial health officer Dr. Bonnie Henry, who announced the requirement Monday afternoon, said those individuals will have to miss out on discretionary services and activities, such as dining in restaurants and attending live sporting events, until the proof-of-vaccination requirement is lifted next year.

"This is a temporary measure that's getting us through a risky period where we know people who are unvaccinated are at a greater risk, both of contracting and spreading this virus," Henry said Monday.

"Those rare people who have a medical reason why they can't be immunized … they will not be able to attend those events during this period."

"The same goes for people who refuse to get immunized because of a religious conviction, though officials noted the passport system does not apply to worship services.

"We've worked really closely with faith-based groups across the province over this past very long year-and-a-half, and we have in place guidelines that they are using to help support faith-based services coming back," Henry said."

-----

NB: The language has changed, as I noted yesterday. They're calling it a vaccine card now (not passport or certificate or pass) to keep it benign I guess. There was a negative reaction from some to the 'passport' designation.

Again, it's a temporary measure to try and reduce infection rates in the midst of a pandemic in the upcoming winter season. To those who complain about restrictions, I have one word: Eyam.

Eyam was the village in England that had to resort to a complete lockdown to avoid spreading the bubonic plague (Black Death) to surrounding areas. Every resident in the village died. They sacrificed themselves for the good of others, including strangers.

*That* is loving (caring for) your neighbour.

And no. Nobody's asking us to do anything approaching that level of self-sacrifice.

We've got it good in comparison. (Understatement)

-----

Interesting article from the BBC (April 2020) re the plague, Eyam, and COVID-19:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-51904810

Excerpts:

"When plague arrived in Eyam on a bundle of cloth from London, no-one could have foreseen the ordeal that lay ahead.

"[After the self-imposed shutdown] The following 14 months were characterised by death and disease, sacrifice and sorrow. The village's story has gone on to become part of English history as a symbol of selflessness.

"Dr Didelot said: "The importance of person-to-person infection showed isolation was the right thing to do. By staying within the confines of their community, the inhabitants of Eyam did indeed stem the spread of the epidemic, albeit at a tragic cost to themselves."

"It is moving to think that the unimaginable sacrifice the villagers made benefited not just those communities nearby at the time, but is still benefiting the wider world now."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2021 04:31PM by Nightingale.

Smart. I like BC’s approach!
If we really wanted anti-vaxers heads to explode we’d do the same in the US only force them to get vaccinated or forgo medical treatment or any other kind of services.
In Maui last year when I was there they shut down beaches and parks, imposed a 9pm curfew and a mandatory 14 day quarantine. Penalty for breaking either was a year in jail and a $5k fine.
We were scheduled to go again this week but cancelled due to Delta strain.
My family and friends went w/o us.
Restaurants and Bars require proof of 2 vaccines.
BIL said he is wearing his on his chest.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If we really wanted anti-vaxers heads to explode
> we’d ... force them to get vaccinated or forgo medical treatment or any other kind of services.

I'm not in favour of forced vaccination. I do think that is a few thousand steps too far and the spectre of it may have fed partly into the reluctance, refusal and resistance of some people.

The fact that restrictions will apply to those who aren't vaxxed should help us find medium ground on this issue - maybe neither side is 100% happy but each gets some of what they want. The vaxxed folks reap some benefits, having access to business and other venues, the unvaxxed don't have to fight against mandatory vaccination. All that is mandatory is to be vaxxed to enter certain premises, with the objective of keeping infection rates down as low as possible.

The idea of government officials holding people down to vaccinate them by force is extreme and distasteful to most people, I'd think, even those in favour of vaccination.

I can't see it happening in our democracies. I hope. Even though I'm in favour of public health measures to keep everybody as safe as possible, based on science.

I also would not withhold necessary medical services.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2021 05:35PM by Nightingale.

NYC is requiring proof of full vaccination to enter restaurants or bars or theaters. If they can do it on NYC, why not the rest of the country?
Slammed Hospitals in Idaho are already rationing care for patients.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/idaho-covid-19-hospitals-ration-care/

Drs in FL are already refusing to treat the unvaccinated.
https://whdh.com/news/lack-of-selflessness-doctor-says-she-will-refuse-to-treat-unvaccinated-patients/

I agree with non-essential services/businesses restricting access in order to protect staff and patrons.

I understand why some medical facilities have to ration care, based on resources and other realities.

What I was disagreeing with was the idea of physically forcing people to be vaccinated.

I should have included a crucial point about the current public health approach here:

All the measures (in particular, vaccine cards & mandatory masking in certain venues) are being employed in order to be able to reopen as many businesses as possible to help boost the economy, to be able to operate schools as safely as possible and to move forward with those who are fully vaxxed.

The alternative is to open up completely without employing any preventive measures, thereby suffering a resurgence of cases of COVID-19, according to public health experts, which would necessitate another round of closures ("lockdown").

So, it's opening up as much as possible, with recommendations and requirements on how to avoid mass infection.

I think it's crucial to realize and remember that the situation as is can be temporary if we adhere to public health direction. Seems completely rational to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2021 05:23PM by Nightingale.

Nightingale wrote in part:

"I think it's crucial to realize and remember that the situation as is can be temporary if we adhere to public health direction. Seems completely rational to me."

Actually, we really don't know how long "temporary" will be, regardless of when and how these mandates are put in place. Many thought that the virus was dying out in the U.S. and so mask mandates were lifted, but nobody counted on the delta variant. Now, even as we (or some of us) try to fight the delta variant, a new variant is emerging in the U.S. which has epidemiologists concerned. It's called the mu (the Greek letter) variant, and my local NPR outlet was reporting that as of this morning, Arizona now has two cases. The concern about this mu variant is that it may be vaccine-resistant though that is still under study. As one NPR commentator has said, this virus could go on for a few years or a few decades--we really don't know.

What I am saying is that the "temporary" in this equation may well last a long time, maybe much longer than anyone would wish.

Good points, blindguy. The variants are keeping us hopping at the moment.

I said above that the current recommendations and mandates "can be temporary", intending to indicate that as far as we know currently from the information we have and if enough of the population follows the regs etc then hopefully we can find an acceptable balance. Many say we will never go back to the way things were pre-COVID.

What I really meant, and I should have been more specific, is that public health reps are not putting the mandates in place with the intention that they are meant to be permanent. It seems to me that at least some of those who are most vocally and behaviourly against the mandates may not realize that they're meant to be temporary or else they don't believe it.

Indeed, some measures may be long-lasting, depending on how things go with the virus.

...was based on only health issues determining the temporariness of the just-announced U.S. vaccine protocols. All of these measures could end immediately if a court (or courts) says so.

I mention this because, as of this morning, NPR is reporting that the National Republican committee (NRC) is planning to file a lawsuit against the U.S. government for its actions. Yes, there is a law and a Supreme Court precedent supporting what the U.S. Federal government is intending to do in this area, but with the current leaning of justices on the U.S. Supreme Court and the reported flow of dark money towards some of those justices, it is anybody's bet whether the precedent and law will hold up.

It may be that this is what it takes. Do we really want our children and grandchildren dealing with this long into adulthood? Or do we want to give it our very best effort right now?

    But there are people who sincerely believe that future generations NEED stalwart souls to resist the government's evil intrusions, aka forced, unholy vaccinations, in order to preserve the fundamental liberties that are the bedrock of America, ghawd's chosen country, his chosen people (Whities), and chosen religion, ghawd-fearing, gun-toting, girl-chasing Christianity.

    "I'd rather die than submit to the plan to yoke into submission good Americans via Satan's evil vaccine!", said Jack Splat, spokesman for Americans United to Live A Blessed and Holy Life, or AULABAHL, which is pronounced a-Ú-la-ba-hall, according to Mr. Splat's representative, Jill.

Yay !

My "husband" brought it home from going to Midway by Park City to an art fair with is boyfriend over the weekend. My "husband" has HIV. I haven't told the board before I don't think. He went to work at the hospital (ground's supervisor) on Tuesday.

Have to tell the tale of the HIV. One of the reasons I married him is HIV/AIDS was just on the scene and I wanted to save him from it. So I went to live in Colorado about 9 years ago with my boyfriend. My daughter was in Alaska and college in the off season and my son lived with his girlfriend in Trenton, Utah, so he was here and lonely and got stupid I guess. He wanted to have me invest my inheritance in this insurance thing, but one of us had to have blood tests and I refused.

So we got a registered letter notice in the mail and on our anniversary no less, I went and picked it up. I was actually driving when I opened it and HIV jumped out at me. He was out of town. I called and told him to come home, but he got it out of me on the phone. He has done really well--really, really well. But now me with diabetes and RA and him with HIV and now COVID, and our son lives here with us.

We got vaccinated as soon as we were able to. We'll see how this goes. My boyfriend has been out of town LUCKILY and he just got home the other day. His first grandchild/granddaughter was born yesterday in CO. I'm so glad I didn't see him as a precaution as now he can go see his granddaughter.

I'm so glad you are taking care of each other. He is very lucky you are in his life.

Lots of censoring on this board.

If a company is close to 100 employees they will be willing to let go to get below 99 in order to not have to deal with compliance.

Phazer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of censoring on this board.
>
> If a company is close to 100 employees they will
> be willing to let go to get below 99 in order to
> not have to deal with compliance.

At this point I think the tide has shifted and the Government has declared an all out war on anti-vaxers bullish!t excuses. All Federal Employees and contractors are required to get vax’d or get axe’d, no exceptions.
The Fed Gov is the largest employer in America.

Where I live, the Anti Vaxers called in the Proud Boys (Incels) who are in no mood to “Stand By and Stand Back” at his point, instead they are roaming the streets in well armed roving gangs chanting ‘FnCK Antifa’ while hunting anybody dressed in all black.

Now the incels are threatening to return on Sept the 18th to avenge an incel terrorist getting shot.

https://youtu.be/wZLTXl9aoBM

I can’t imagine being a Peace Officer having to prepare for this terrorist hate group coming to town to “Own the Libs” (hunt down law abiding citizens).

https://www.reddit.com/r/olympia/comments/pjitcm/proud_boys_planning_to_return_sept_18/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

It is becoming a problem in my area too. They are taking over public parks and running people out.

Phazer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If a company is close to 100 employees they will
> be willing to let go to get below 99 in order to
> not have to deal with compliance.

Either that or loudly blame the government for the new requirement and quietly thank their lucky stars they no longer bear legal liability for workers and customers getting COVID.

And those few companies that reduce their payrolls to avoid the new regulations? We should applaud their civic-spiritedness for agreeing to take some of the financial liability from the shoulders of the public.

What patriotism!

Can we call the payroll-reducers "patridiots"?

As long as the message is written by crayon in all caps.

Some discussion from those who have businesses that border on 100 employees would be more valuable than this discussion. I find this very short sighted.

What is your view on the matter, D&D?

The simple answer as a stand-in for a long diatribe is that all workers should be vaccinated. The 100 rule is wrong and places the wrong kind of pressure in all the wrong places.

The kinds of choices that small and medium size company employers have to make at times are very, very complicated and they have a right to do what is best for them just as everyone has that right.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The simple answer as a stand-in for a long
> diatribe is that all workers should be vaccinated.

Is there no compromise?

No. Start your own mail order business and work out of your house and garage but don't bring your "latest variant breath" to work.

I'm being officious here, but I think EB was asking if there were any middle ground between your very subtle post and "a long diatribe." My guess is that my success in getting you to spell out your argument was what he had in mind.

Of course my interpretation could be wrong.

Thanks. If I misunderstood it certainly wouldn't be the first time. Feel free to be officious any time. Still not sure what the "is there no compromise?" is getting at then.

Also when I said "your" I was not directing that at EB personally but speaking to anyone who won't vaccinate and still expects to go anywhere they please unmasked.

What you say, D&D, makes perfect sense. Letting smaller businesses stew in illness and liability is the wrong thing to do.

You're probably right. Anti-vaxers and their enablers seem to be operating at about that level.

I think responsibility is the operative word in all this. Anti- vaxers seem to scream a lot about their rights but say little about their responsibilities. Can freedom really operate without responsibility? It's what makes mundane freedoms like driving a car safely on the highway possible. Getting the vaccine is the responsible thing to do.

Someone I know recently went to the emergency room of a hospital in northern Utah with severe breathing issues., The diagnosis was blocked arteries that would need bypass surgery. He was told that because of Covid pressures he should go home but report to his local emergency center if things got bad. A few days later they did get bad and he was life flighted some miles away to where surgery could be done. Fortunately he is doing well and recovering. Just one case that turned out well but I would certainly be a little ticked (understatement) if a loved one of mine suffered because services were being taken up by irresponsible sufferers with the anti vaccine variant.

kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would certainly be a little ticked
> (understatement) if a loved one of mine suffered
> because services were being taken up by
> irresponsible sufferers with the anti vaccine
> variant.


I would as well. The people who don't want to get the vaccine will now suffer economically and like the government splitting up polygamist families this might evolve into looking like a terrible move.

>>and like the government splitting up polygamist families this might evolve into looking like a terrible move.

If you are talking about what happened in Short Creek, I had zero problem with that. In fact, I approved of it thoroughly. It was high time that situation was dealt with. Ditto for the compound in Texas.

I work in a very large company that has required vaccines for the white collar at headquarters but the rest of us who are working class and diverse, no,. If this manda really goes through, which I highly dout, half our facility will be laid off, the whole supply chain will be disrupted, the economy will tank, I hope everyone knows how to grow their own food. Lol!

Maca not logged in Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I work in a very large company that has required
> vaccines for the white collar at headquarters but
> the rest of us who are working class and diverse,
> no,. If this manda really goes through, which I
> highly dout, half our facility will be laid off,
> the whole supply chain will be disrupted, the
> economy will tank, I hope everyone knows how to
> grow their own food. Lol!

Yeah, that's what the workers will do: give up their jobs and watch as their families are bankrupted.

Either that or get vaccinated.

About 15% of the population sees the vaccine as death by lethal injection. Those not having a death wish would give up their job.

The governor where I live is already pushing back against Biden. Little Caesar should be selling pizza, not vaccines.

I got 99 employees and not a vaxxed one!

All I know is it's time to give some relief and love to the Nurses, Doctors and all the Health Care Workers who are overwhelmed, exhausted emotionally as well as physically, and risking their lives. Right now we have one way to do that.

I agree. I believe that we are in grave danger of burning out our hospital-based health care workers, particularly the nurses. It's one thing to have restaurants, hotels, retail, etc. understaffed, but quite another to have a hospital understaffed.

Too late.
They are already burnt out.
Here in WA they are also required to get vaxed or get axed, yet 1/3 of hospital workers are unvaccinated.
I support to Government mandate, but we already have a real shortage of hospital workers and now we are going to fire 1/3 of them?
If you are going to suffer a heart attack, now is not a good time, you may die in the waiting room.

That can be misleading.
Keep in mind that "hospital workers" include janitorial, food services, maintenance, etc. The percentage for the professionals in the hospital is probably higher. There have been nurses not vaccinated but I have to wonder if they slept through their Micro 100 class.

I guess WebMD is full of sh!t then,
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210628/huge-number-of-hospital-workers

I don't see the conflict from the point I was trying to make. From the article:

~~

It revealed a spectrum of hesitancy among health care workers corresponding to income and education, ranging from a low of 9% among pharmacists to highs of 20%-23% among nursing aides and emergency medical technicians. About 12% of registered nurses and doctors admitted to being hesitant to get a shot.

~~

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't see the conflict from the point I was
> trying to make. From the article:
>
> ~~
> 12%
> of registered nurses and doctors admitted to being
> hesitant to get a shot.
>
> ~~
The alarming part.
That means 1/8 RN’s or Dr’s don’t believe the scientists or government.

Do you want one of them to be your caregiver?

That’s why I support mandatory vaccines for hospital workers, like we are doing in WA, along with all State and Federal workers, which I support 100%.

And I suspect resistance to that will be stiff and furious.
It already is here where I call home. LARPers

Zero sympathy for anti-vaxers/maskers
100% support the Gov making it a requirement to do business with us.
100% support our nurses and Dr’s and all those on the front line.
Thank you all,
Except the 1/8 who refuse to get vax’d, I hope you get axed!

and a lot of people are quitting at the hospital he works at in a big city. If they lose many more, that hospital will close and he'll have to drive 2 hours one way to get another job.

When we don't have healthcare, then we are really in trouble.

And I agree, make it everyone if they are going to do this.

Me, I've said I've always hated shots (and of course, now a diabetic but that's not a big deal in terms of shots, those tiny needles) and I got it as soon as I could and I was ready to go get the booster as soon as they tell me I should and I will even if I've now had it.

My SIL actually asked me if we hadn't been vaccinated. It is like, "Well, YES! We have."

Also, large numbers of employees in the NIH have declined, or deferred, or whatever. Maybe those figures aren't reporting nurses or front-line employees (techs, equipment specialists, whatever) but it means the medical system is not running at full power, right when we need it. I've read anecdotal reports of large numbers of nurses intending to quit/be fired of need be. They can always get rehired when the legal and political mud settles to the bottom.

Newsweek reports "President Joe Biden’s new vaccine mandates for federal employees don’t apply to members of Congress or those who work for Congress or the federal court system." Also, Postal Workers, but I came across one article that throws shade on the USPS exclusion. Aren't Amazon Prime delivery drivers entitled to a break?

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Newsweek reports "President Joe Biden’s new
> vaccine mandates for federal employees don’t
> apply to members of Congress or those who work for
> Congress or the federal court system."

That's because the legislature and judiciary are independent branches of the federal government and the president lacks the constitutional authority to issue rules for them.

It seems that Federal Judiciary and Congressional employees are exempt from ObumaCare, maybe because they have have generous healthcare benefits, making their inclusion moot. I expect they'll be excluded. Professional courtesy, or maybe the Biden Administration doesn't want to p*ss them off.

I expect this initiative will crash and burn for practical, not legal, reasons. First, there's the logistics--OSHA doesn't have the enforcement resources. (Tip o' the hat, BlindGuy!) Second, the Biden Administration has underestimated the number of people who will "die on this hill," job-wise, especially in the healthcare field. How will we maintain that industry if 20%,30%, maybe more are willing to "face the consequences?" Thirdly, many companies will outsource mass vaccinations to 3rd parties. Seeing as J&J, Moderna, and Pfizer are already "immunized" from liability, vax providers may find themselves facing liability issues.

(signed)
Caffiend,
still Covid & Vaccine-free

That pisses me off!
Why not members of Congress? Executive and Judicial branch?
Why are they exempt?
Are their freedoms more precious than ours?

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That pisses me off!
> Why not members of Congress? Executive and
> Judicial branch?
> Why are they exempt?
> Are their freedoms more precious than ours?

Implicit in your reaction is the idea that the president can say or write a rule or regulation and that it must be followed by everybody. That, I'm afraid, is the province of a king, and the people who founded the United states didn't wish to have one person have that kind of absolute authority over all of the government.

Stepping back from my response to this post, I think that it should be noted that rules and regulations have not yet been written for the president's proposal and that OSHA, the Federal agency responsible for overseeing health and safety issues, doesn't have the manpower or financial means to scrutinize the COVID19 policies of each and every business with 100 or more employees.

Finally, as I noted above, once the regulation gets written, there will be lawsuits (including one from the NRC) challenging its constitutionality which may well delay the proposed regulation from even going into effect.

All of that said, I very much agree with both the proposed regulation and its intent, and I'm very much hoping that it will pass legal muster.

Public schools have required vaccinations for children since forever. Mandated vaccines for the good of the individual and the good of society are nothing new. This is just one more vaccine.

When I was a classroom teacher, I reviewed my students' vaccine records every year (vaccinations are a part of a child's school record, and we are required to certify that our students' school records are complete and in order.) It was a very rare parent who took a medical or religious exemption for their child. I would say that 96% or better were compliant.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2021 12:29AM by summer.

Dumb isn't it Summer. It's not about the science, it's about the culture. I think one very telling point is that people are sneaking around to get it and not wanting to admit they got the vax. And the "passports" are not new either. In CA I had to keep a special card for the kids with the shots filled out by the doctors over the years. You had to show it each year when they started school. No one protested. No one hit school principals or gave teachers shit. Everyone knows you need to do it and why.

These people are so childish.

Yes, I still have my old vaccine card from my childhood. Nowadays physicians give the parent a computerized printout.

I haven't heard of such a thing, at least not in my limited sphere of 1st World society. It's counterintuitive. With more businesses, services, and entertainment venues requiring proof of vaccination, not to mention increasing discussion and practice of Vax "passports" and wristbands, why would anybody get the jab and keep quiet about it?

To the contrary, there's talk about cottage industry forgeries (digital & document) for people who refuse the Fauci Ouchie. And there's major qualitative difference between inoculations on a school medical record and having to carry something around when you buy goods and service or attend events.

"Papers, please!"

Perhaps you are not looking.

Consider Fox News, with its vaccine mandate for all employees and the refusal of Tuckums to confirm or deny that he was vaccinated. Which do you think is more probable: that he didn't get the vaccine but doesn't want to tell that to his anti-vaxxer viewers; or that he got the vaccine, as required by Fox as a condition of employment, and doesn't want to expose his own hypocrisy?

Consider also Donald Trump, who got the shots after his recovery but wouldn't admit that for many weeks. Doesn't his reticence fit the pattern described by Susan I/S?

What about Republican Congressmen like Rand Paul, Jim Jordan, and Matt Gaetz, all of whom refuse to acknowledge their vaccine status. Use the old noggin here, caffiend. What are they hiding? Are they afraid their followers would be displeased that they have NOT been vaccinated? Does that make any sense?

Then there are the reports from MDs around the country describing their patients and their hesitation to be exposed as vaccinated.

If these cases of public officials and timorous individuals hiding their status have really evaded your powers of observation, perhaps it's time to come out from under the blankets.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/08/09/some-may-be-getting-covid-19-vaccines-in-disguise-to-hide-vaccination-status/?sh=24a802c42ff3



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2021 02:48PM by Lot's Wife.

Exactly. The ones at the top are vaccinated. They are using people like caffiend to carry out their tactic to divide people.

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> "Papers, please!"

You know, for years you've decried others' invocation of Nazism as a rhetorical technique. You have said, with justification, that he who first resorts to that short-circuits the discussion and loses the debate. And yet the last few days you have conjured up Nazism several times because it serves your purposes.

You've no credibility here.

Exactly. Quoting Nazi slogans is a new low for any poster here. I can't even begin to describe why it's despicable. It should be self-evident.

Any thinking person surely would not adopt slogans from those atrocious killers (words are insufficient to describe their utter despicableness - I know that's not even a word but you get the idea), whatever our disagreements here about the topics we discuss.

It is O F F E N S I V E.

Get it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2021 03:48PM by Nightingale.

Businesses with less than 99 employees will require their employees to eat bugs.