https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/unvaccinated-individuals-are-11-times-more-likely-to-die-from-covid-19-than-those-who-are-vaccinated-180978714/

“Unvaccinated Individuals Are 11 Times More Likely to Die From Covid-19
Multiple CDC studies suggest that vaccines against Covid-19 remain highly effective against severe complications from the virus. According to a report released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), unvaccinated individuals are 11 times more likely to die from Covid-19 than those who are fully inoculated, reports NPR’s Vanessa Romo. The study, published in the CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR) on September 10, also found vaccinated individuals were almost five times less likely to get infected with the virus and ten times less likely to end up hospitalized due to complications from the virus.”

Yet 35% of MORmONs are vaccine refuseniks, despite the fact their PRofit told them repeatedly over the pulpit that they need to get vaccinated.

Why?

BwhyU !!


Did I win?

Covid is their lottery ticket to meet Jesus

3,000 Utahns have died of Covid.
That's like a 9/11 worth of needless deaths.
And most of those deaths are in the rural areas of the state, like most states. California is doing remarkably well and they've had about the tightest restrictions, other than WA, which has some very strict vaccine and mask mandates.
56% of Utahns are vaccinated.
Meaning 44% are vaccine refusniks
in a theocracy run by a CULT who's PRophet told his followers to get a vaccine, in no uncertain terms.

It's like Catholics who hear the Pope said to get vaccinated. They're like, "Well he's wrong! He's lost his mind!"

>And most of those deaths are in the rural areas of the state

Actually, over half of Utah's covid deaths are from Salt Lake and Utah counties. If you extend that to Davis and Weber counties, 71% of Utah's deaths are from the Wasatch front. Not surprising since 74% of Utah's population lives in those counties.

https://coronavirus.utah.gov/case-counts/

I was looking at per capita rates, which are much higher in my state, like most states, in rural areas, where vaccination rates are much lower than in major metro areas.
Obviously diseases of affluence, obesity, heart disease and diabetes have everything to do with why America is such fertile ground for ‘Darwin’s Revenge’ to exacted so much revenge, relative to places like S.Korea or the rest of Asia.

China had it pretty bad at first, but they didn’t screw around with it. They put everything on lockdown by area. No traffic in or out.
Same with NZ.
They seem to have done well.
Then there’s Swedish experiment. which took a “Personal Responsibility” approach to the pandemic and avoided shutdowns and they’ve had a far lower death rate than the US or Great Britain. About the same as their neighbors who did shut down everything at first.
I agree with taking strict measures, mask and vaccine mandates, shut down air travel to/from areas with high spread, to end pandemic ASAP so it doesn’t mutate again and adapt to our vaccines.
Last I read, today, We have to get up to 80% (+\~) vaccinated or infected to reach herd immunity. I’m all for getting there one way or another, with as little loss of life as possible, but 700k are already dead here in US. If that 1/3 of our country has to die off to reach herd immunity, at least it’ll be the science denying third of the herd getting culled and that’ll be cause for celebration alone!
Turns out almost anything is better than the US approach.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2021 05:55PM by schrodingerscat.

>I was looking at per capita rates

But that isn't what you said. You said "And most of those deaths are in the rural areas of the state." You seem to have a difficult time stating what you mean. Examples: Francis Collins being a Nobel prize winner, buckyballs being the most common constituent of interstellar medium. Then there are the things that are just plain wrong like the Higgs boson being the smallest particle known or energy being mass sped up past the speed of light.

>Then there’s Swedish experiment. which took a “Personal Responsibility” approach to the pandemic and avoided shutdowns and they’ve had a far lower death rate than the US or Great Britain. About the same as their neighbors who did shut down everything at first.

Death rates from Covid:

US 2194/million
UK 2013/million
Sweden 1460/million
Denmark 459/million
Norway 159/million
Finland 197/million

The first half of your statement has some validity. The second half is just wrong.

[|] Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >I was looking at per capita rates
>
> But that isn't what you said. You said "And most
> of those deaths are in the rural areas of the
> state." You seem to have a difficult time stating
> what you mean.

You seem to want to pick fights over pointless issues.
3,000 dead in Utah was the point. And 35% of Mormons are refusing to get vaccinated, higher than National Average, in a CULT who’s PRophet told them to get vaccinated.

Examples: Francis Collins being a
> Nobel prize winner,

Ok, that was beside the point, he mapped the human genome and runs the NIH, for 3 Presidents, and you don’t think he is a respected scientist?

buckyballs being the most
> common constituent of interstellar medium.

Buckyballs are found throughout the interstellar medium, despite hydrogen being 10,000 times more plentiful, which should make formation of C60 molecules unlikely, but they’re very common.

https://scitechdaily.com/mysterious-buckyballs-found-throughout-interstellar-space-puzzled-scientists-until-now/

Then
> there are the things that are just plain wrong
> like the Higgs boson being the smallest particle
> known

What is smaller than a God Particle, besides a photon?
It’s the basis of the pyramid of our standard model.

or energy being mass sped up past the speed
> of light.

So you don’t accept that e=mc^2?

You do realize it’s been proven, right?

>
> >Then there’s Swedish experiment. which took a
> “Personal Responsibility” approach to the
> pandemic and avoided shutdowns and they’ve had a
> far lower death rate than the US or Great Britain.
> About the same as their neighbors who did shut
> down everything at first.
>
> Death rates from Covid:
>
> US 2194/million
> UK 2013/million
> Sweden 1460/million
> Denmark 459/million
> Norway 159/million
> Finland 197/million
>
> The first half of your statement has some
> validity. The second half is just wrong.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [|] Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >I was looking at per capita rates
> >
> > But that isn't what you said. You said "And
> most
> > of those deaths are in the rural areas of the
> > state." You seem to have a difficult time
> stating
> > what you mean.
>
> You seem to want to pick fights over pointless
> issues.
> 3,000 dead in Utah was the point. And 35% of
> Mormons are refusing to get vaccinated, higher
> than National Average, in a CULT who’s PRophet
> told them to get vaccinated.

None of which was anything you posted. You apparently expect people to read your mind to know what you are really trying to say.
>

> Examples: Francis Collins being a
> > Nobel prize winner,
>
> Ok, that was beside the point, he mapped the human
> genome and runs the NIH, for 3 Presidents, and you
> don’t think he is a respected scientist?

I never said he wasn't a repected scientist. I merely pointed out that you were incorrect when you said (several times) that he was a Nobel Prize winner.


> buckyballs being the most
> > common constituent of interstellar medium.
>
> Buckyballs are found throughout the interstellar
> medium, despite hydrogen being 10,000 times more
> plentiful, which should make formation of C60
> molecules unlikely, but they’re very common.


>
> https://scitechdaily.com/mysterious-buckyballs-fou
> nd-throughout-interstellar-space-puzzled-scientist
> s-until-now/

Very common is a relative term. Not only are they not the most common constituent of interstellar matter as you claimed, they only constitute ~1X10^-6 of all of the carbon in interstellar matter.


> Then
> > there are the things that are just plain wrong
> > like the Higgs boson being the smallest
> particle
> > known
>
> What is smaller than a God Particle, besides a
> photon?
> It’s the basis of the pyramid of our standard
> model.

Given that the Higgs Boson weight >130 times as much as a proton, there are many particles weighing less than it: neutrinos, electrons, protons, pions (and many other mesons), W bosons, Z bosons. Even a number of atomic nuclei weigh less - like the majority of isotopes of all elements before Xenon.


> or energy being mass sped up past the speed
> > of light.
>
> So you don’t accept that e=mc^2?
>
> You do realize it’s been proven, right?

I don't object o E=mc^2. I object to your interpretation of it. It does not mean that energy is produced by speeding mass up beyond the speed of light. According to your hero Einstein, that is impossible. Maybe you should actually take a physics course.


> >
> > >Then there’s Swedish experiment. which took
> a
> > “Personal Responsibility” approach to the
> > pandemic and avoided shutdowns and they’ve had
> a
> > far lower death rate than the US or Great
> Britain.
> > About the same as their neighbors who did shut
> > down everything at first.
> >
> > Death rates from Covid:
> >
> > US 2194/million
> > UK 2013/million
> > Sweden 1460/million
> > Denmark 459/million
> > Norway 159/million
> > Finland 197/million
> >
> > The first half of your statement has some
> > validity. The second half is just wrong.

Spitting into the wind. . .

Sometimes I even tug on Superman's cape.

Don't even think about messing with the Lone Ranger. He's even more massive than E/c^2 as E goes to infinity!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2021 01:51AM by Lot's Wife.

And I certainly won't mess around with Jim!

Ah yes, a man with a classical education!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2021 04:00AM by Lot's Wife.

It's now a Pandemic Of The Stubborn And Willfully Ignorant.

Thanks to modern scientific research, the groundwork for a successful vaccine was laid years ago and a vaccine was developed relatively quickly.

We should be out this by now, but, as I said before, you can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

We're not dealing for the most part with people who were lied to and used for experimental purposes like African Americans in the infamous Tuskeegee Experiment.

We're dealing with people who *prefer* living in an artifical reality of conspiracy theories and lies.

Enough.

They'd rather die to prove their loyalty to the cult or the tribe rather than get vaccinated and live.

We now have to protect ourselves from them.

If they won't get vaccinated, then they have to submit to testing to protect the rest of us from infection.

Innocent people shoudn't have to suffer just so they can keep on living in fantasyland.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2021 06:26PM by anybody.

You have to have a plague before you can have a rennaisance.

And I'm not so keen on the CDC. I'm sure my COVID would have been much worse had I not been vaccinated and if I didn't get the monoclonal antibodies. I really feel "lucky." But I'd sure like to be able to eat SOMETHING that tasted normal.

cl2notloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And I'm not so keen on the CDC.

You’re not keen on controlling disease or just having a ‘Center’ that ‘Controls Disease’?

the changing messages. I just do what I need to to try to take care of myself like getting the vaccination. I've heard enough messages like if I got vaccinated, I'd be protected from getting it. It just stresses me out to listen to everything that they say.

cl2notloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the changing messages. I just do what I need to
> to try to take care of myself like getting the
> vaccination. I've heard enough messages like if I
> got vaccinated, I'd be protected from getting it.
> It just stresses me out to listen to everything
> that they say.

It was never about not getting it.
Everybody knew ahead of time these vaccines were at best 98% effective at preventing Covid infection, but the reason most of us got vaccinated was to not end up in the hospital, or dead.
So far, that’s proven true.
98% of people dying of Covid are not vaccinated and I have zero empathy for any one of them, except kids, who had no choice.
But so far, not many kids are dying from it.

research things myself. I don't need to listen to someone on exmormon to make my decisions. I had the vaccine as soon as it was available to me IN MARCH 2021. I still got COVID and I got antibodies because we listened to my "husband's" HIV doctor and I did what it took to get them as my doctor didn't even know how to get me signed up for them. I had them within a day of my positive COVID test.

I have doctors and I also have transcribed medical records for 35 years. I have typed for every kind of doctor and for the big hospitals like U of U, VA, Primary Children's, and many out of state large hospitals including Hamilton hospital system in Ontario.

I am very capable of taking care of myself even if I have a chemistry boyfriend, who is extremely intelligent, I worked for scientists and chemists with Ph.D.'s who I talk to regularly. I don't need you or anyone else to tell me where I should get my info from. I don't know you from ADAM. Why would I trust your input? Or anyone else's on this board? Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Knock yerself out!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2021 12:10AM by schrodingerscat.

cl2notloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the changing messages. I just do what I need to
> to try to take care of myself like getting the
> vaccination. I've heard enough messages like if I
> got vaccinated, I'd be protected from getting it.
> It just stresses me out to listen to everything
> that they say.

First of all the message has been rather constant. Had this discussion with an acquaintance on FB recently, and he claimed that the original message was that the vaccines would prevent infection. Even when I showed him articles from multiple sources (including current anti-vaxx news sites like Fox News) from fall of 2020, all claiming that the even with vaccines, infection might be possible and that the ultimate goal is to prevent serious illness, he still insisted the message had changed. It has not changed, you can go back and read many, many, many, articles from last summer and fall and they are all saying the same thing about the vaccines as they do now.

The other thing is that guidance and recommendations do change when new information becomes available. Seeing changes does not mean the system is not working, it means that it is working as it should.

alsd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The other thing is that guidance and
> recommendations do change when new information
> becomes available. Seeing changes does not mean
> the system is not working, it means that it is
> working as it should.

This is a crucial point. As medical spokespeople are explaining, this far out from the original onset, stats and experience indicate which measures need to be adopted, enhanced or put aside. A lot now depends on your area and how widespread, or controlled, the contagion is. In my city the mandates around restaurant dining, for instance, come and go depending on case counts. That's not change, just adjustments as facts come in.

I'm tired of the pandemic myself, absolutely, and keeping up with all the news conferences and current regs gets challenging for a few reasons but it's our reality now, for a while yet, certainly as winter approaches.

Experts and authorities aren't causing the situation, the responsible ones are helping us navigate it. The details and numbers change but the overall plan stays constant. Vax, mask, distance, caution, logic/reason, medicine and science as well as selflessness.


(Edit to change "adapted" to "adopted" - I think that's what I meant - I already can't remember what I was thinking at the time).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2021 03:25PM by Nightingale.

+1.0^10x9

I’m not cheering. Those are my people. Things could have worked out so much different then they ended up.

Cold-Dodger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’m not cheering. Those are my people. Things
> could have worked out so much different then they
> ended up.

I’m not cheering people dying.
At the beginning of this Pandemic UW Medicsl estimated 200-300k Americans could be lost, but if we wore masks, then it could be 100,000, which sounded high,
Now it’s 700,000 dead and it’s not over yet.
If we have another wave it could cost a million American lives, most of them preventable, if only they had trusted science instead of science deniers and charlatans.

After 18mo of science deniers screwing up our lives, I’ve kinda had it with science denial.

If you don’t trust science stay home when you get sick and don’t use science to try and save you, don’t subject the rest of us to your stupid decisions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2021 06:47PM by schrodingerscat.

We ( husband and me) have been thinking for some time now, that we probably had COVID in late August last year.

He lost his sense of smell, and 13 months later, he still can’t smell substances such as gasoline or Clorox. The loss of smell seemed to be the only symptom he had.

I didn’t have any symptoms except possibly a low grade fever of 99.8, if that is considered a fever.

It makes me wonder if we were lucky enough to have strong natural immunity that prevented worse symptoms. We did our best masking up, washing hands,etc. We even used hand sanitizer immediately after filling up our vehicle with gasoline cause we thought the gas pump handles were probably contaminated with Covid.

Oh my, was I deleted? Free speech and healthy debate must truly be dead.

This is a private message board. It is not run by the government. You have not been silenced by the government. Free speech has limits within the law. Free speech is alive and well. And you are seeing the limits that have always existed.

I understand all of that, and I wasn't claiming that my 1st Amendment right was being violated by this board. I did nothing more than state that free speech and healthy debate did not exist here...the "here" part being implied since I didn't go off on a rant that I have a right as an American to say anything I want.

I am curious about what it was that I wrote that was so offensive to the hearty individuals on this board. Did I shout "Fire!" in a crowded message board?

Well, one thing you did was bring in Project Veritas, which has a long history of lying and deceit. This BB has a strong bias against disinformation. The mods will nuke an entire subthread to minimize confusion and preserve a thread's continuity.

We've all been deleted at one time or another and have learned not to take it personally or complain about "free speech." No one is exempt. I presume this was the first time it's happened to you. Welcome to the club.

Do the three Pfizer scientists not exist? Did they not say what they are recorded saying? Does it really matter who recorded what they said? I thought The Washington Times coverage would lend the story some gravitas.

BTW - I have not taken it personally, nor am I complaining. I simply observed that I was deleted. I thought that my amusement was apparent by my mocking "Oh my". Perhaps my humor is more arid than merely dry. I am looking forward to the inevitable litany of the injuries my words inflicted upon the indomitable free thinkers who reside here.

Washington Times? The paper owned by the Moonies? The paper that denies climate change? Not a source for gravitas.

Greg, you asked a question. I answered. It's not my fault you don't like the answer.

I don't know if the people interviewed are Pfizer scientists or not. I do know that Veritas is not a trustworthy source irrespective of the news outlet.

Is this the right Rahul Khandke? I don't know. If someone else can do better, great.

PYTHON|JAVA|SQL|HTML|CSS|JAVASCRIPT|JDBC|CLOUD COMPUTING (BASIC)

Licenses & Certifications
Java development

Nothing about Pfizer.

https://in.linkedin.com/in/rahul-khandke

I'm not getting into an extended debate about this. I really have other and better things to do with my time.

Question your sources.
I’m all for censoring Anybody who uses a moonie paper to back their conspiracy theories, that directly contradict the CDC.

And what if a conspiracy is true? Even paranoids have enemies, right?

Should we discuss your conspiracy theories? Should be censored? Can't swing a cat of questionable life-status around here without hitting one of your pet theories.

Contradict the CDC? Please, even the self-contradicting Dr. Fauci contradicts the CDC, the preeminent authority on infectious diseases with a string of politically-appointed contradictory directors! Who am I to trust?

https://www.city-journal.org/panic-pandemic

"The traditional strategy for dealing with pandemics was to isolate the infected and protect the most vulnerable, just as Atlas and the Great Barrington scientists recommended. The CDC’s pre-pandemic planning scenarios didn’t recommend extended school closures or any shutdown of businesses even during a plague as deadly as the 1918 Spanish flu. Yet Fauci dismissed the focused-protection strategy as “total nonsense” to “anybody who has any experience in epidemiology and infectious diseases,” and his verdict became “the science” to leaders in America and elsewhere."

What this board tries to do is to deal with facts; not conspiracy theories. Especially when more than 700,000 Americans have died from Covid 19. So your hairsplitting and conjecture aren't going to be very popular.

Sure. Shoot. I’ll bite,
What unfounded ‘conspiracy theories’ have I spread on this board?
I can back up everything I say with reliable sources, you on the other hand, moonie paper.

Edited to add: OK I’ll admit I fell for the whole Ivermectin scientific studies that showed Ivermectin works against Covid, but the ‘scientists’ (frauds) lied.

I don’t really care about having been right, I care passionately about being right. If you’ve got better statistics or sources than me, shoot. I’m all ears.
But unfortunately there’s a shload of misinformation and bad studies out there. It’s best to take a wait and see attitude sometimes.

But it’s been a yr we’ve been vaccinating people, that’s plenty of time to see the effects, >98% of Covid Deaths are among unvaccinated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2021 07:38PM by schrodingerscat.

From the Washington Times to the City-Journal. Out of the frying pan. . .

The latter article is truly memorable. Ioanides said that the COVID science was wrong and he's very smart. Moreover, he would never have published something erroneous because doing so would be foolish. So we must all agree that he was right. Yet despite the fact that he was right, other scientists accused him of being wrong and then still more scientists and journalists piled on, agreeing that he was wrong. Therefore we have proof that he was right.

Then there's Scot Atlas, another Stanford mastermind who is too smart to make mistakes. Scientists condemned him, too. But fortunately there were intrepid political leaders--specifically, Ron DeSantis--who saw the genius of what Atlas and Ionides were saying and adopted appropriate strategies. And guess what? Atlas praised him, proving that DeSantis too is a genius. And in the sequel the geniuses were vindicated by the fact that Florida has done so much better than the rest of the United States.

I congratulate you on your use of sources.

"Ioanides said that the COVID science was wrong and he's very smart."

You have to be really smart to tell people how smart you are.

Or not.

I was unclear. Ioanides did not say he was very smart: the writer of the article did. My use of the pronoun was ambiguous.

I'm confident, however, that Ionides believes he is very smart--and he may well be. But that does not mean his analysis is immune to scrutiny nor that a journalist can get away with saying "my source is smart so don't question him."

Oh, thanks LW. I was remiss in not reading the article before commenting. I just shot off a quick smart-alec reply. Because that's the mood I'm in today.

Little Florence wore jeans to school today.

Scandalous!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2021 04:16PM by Lot's Wife.

:)

John Ioannidis' name came up in a thread some months ago and I was asked my opinion of him. I really knew nothing about him, but the first google search article was a letter from the editor in Scientific American, and it is the most abject disclaimer about an article it published that I think I have ever seen in print. They were not happy campers with respect to that article. It at the very least raised a yellow caution flag in my mind, if not a red warning flag, WRT Ioannidis.

You can read the gory details yourself.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-ioannidis-affair-a-tale-of-major-scientific-overreaction/