This is sort of off-topic, and sort of not...

8 years ago, my younger brother committed suicide. I've posted about this before. He wrestled with depression his whole life.

Our oldest brother was unnecessarily cruel to him in the days and weeks leading up to it. He was so proud of his nasty emails that he forwarded them to all of us.

Fast forward a few years and his own son has started wrestling with the same issues, so my brother has fashioned himself into a an anti-suicide crusader. But it's only a talk-is-cheap grandstanding sort of thing on Facebook. For example, in the last few years he posts messages on our deceased brother's FB on his birthday, or other days of note.

My brother also meddled in our deceased father's trust, resulting in a lawsuit from our step mother. The readers digest version is that this brother's meddling cost each of us a couple hundred thousand dollars. My deceased brother's only daughter received part of his share (the part not lost in the law suit), but there's no doubt that her life circumstanced would be much better if she'd received the full share.

Sadly, this same niece has been posting a some cries for help online. There's a boy-who-cried-wolf element to it all, so it's difficult to know what's genuine and what's not. I've lost track of how many times I've sent money to help out (and no longer do). Money is a big part of her stress and anguish.

Anyway, my oldest brother has largely ignored all this, but all of a sudden is posting his talk-is-cheap anti-suicide stuff on her posts. I have to admit, part of me wants to say, "if you'd been 'Joe Positive' (as you purport to be now) with her dad, he might be here to comfort his daughter himself." Or "if you hadn't meddled in our father's financial affairs, her financial affairs would be much better."

He's never taken any responsibility for his meddling, cruelty, etc. Everything he says and does is for affect, to manipulate others, or to make himself look good. I haven't spoken to him since a few months before my terminally ill wife died in 2017, because he accused me of "neglecting" her. In reality, I had taken more than two years off work to be her full-time caregiver, and he lived 500 miles away and had no idea what our day-to-day life was like; it was just convenient for him to try to manipulate me into doing what he wanted re. that lawsuit.

Anyway, it really aggravates me to see him act like he's mister positivity, when the reality is that when her father was metaphorically dangling from the ledge, this other brother was stomping on his fingers.

I don't want to stir the pot, and/or get her any more worked up, but it's admittedly hard not to lash out him for his hypocrisy.

Yes, I imagine it is unbelievably hard not to lash out. It's good that you are now keeping him at a distance.

Thanks, summer. I keep about half of my family outside of firm boundaries. I'm better off without them.

These types of people are so insecure that the need to find fault with others is a life line to them. Engaging just fuels them and gives them their fix. They draw their power from your reactions and turn the tables as they tend to be pathological liars.

Ignoring them is the best revenge. Not feeding them. When they elicit no response their self importance is diminished. They aren't curable. Nothing you can say will change them.

I have had one in my life. Control Freak/Narcissist. Every expert tells you to avoid them completely.

"I am not an expert but I played one on TV" Haha, as the saying goes. But that is my two cents as a true non-professional armchair shrink.

I know how hard it is not to set them straight as they sit smugly in some kind surety that they have bested you.

I agree, Done & Done. Normally the best thing to do is ignore these narcissists. And I know that it "wounded" and/or embarrassed him a few years ago when I told him to quit contacting me (because within minutes I heard from both of his children). Along those lines, though, I think sometimes they do "need" conspicuous pushback. There have been a handful of times that I've posted contrary points of view on FB that have embarrassed him. When I do, I ignore him other than perhaps vague 3rd person implication, but by and large I ignore him.

He's sort of mastered these "Look at me, I'm so great" posts on Facebook. I long ago unfriended him on FB, but his stuff sometimes pops up on my feed because we obviously have family members in common. And people who don't know any better will "like" and post attaboy commentary.

So, I thought this might be one of those times to embarrass him by pointing out the reality of how cruel he'd been to this very same niece's father, but decided not to bother.

In an actions-speak-louder-than-words sort of way, it's clear that this brother is not really invested in the niece. For example, he and his wife recently went on an Alaskan cruise, that started in Seattle. They posted FB pictures of meeting my late brother's wife (whom they only met at his funeral, since they didn't bother going to the wedding 8 months earlier). That's "nice" on the surface, but they made no effort at all to visit with the niece, whom they've known her whole life. And he'd NEVER once gone to Seattle to visit our brother. Not once. Ever. And playing nice with the widow is only part of the ongoing masquerade of convincing her that we're a big happy family (meaning that my brother's "issues" weren't valid). So they undermine her dead husband in order to look "good" themselves. "We're not the problem; the man you loved is." It's really perverse. Also, my niece and this sister-in-law didn't get along, so it further wounded her to see her uncle meeting the wife and not even contacting her to say "we're in town."

Anyway, maybe in some unintended way it will help her to have the positive message posted, even if it's only fake grandstanding. But I know how this works in my family (because my dad and stepmother did the same): put out some feel-good BS for public consumption, and then the mistreated person gets their hopes up, only to be dashed again by reality at home. Lies. Gaslighting. Etc. Lather, rinse, repeat...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2021 02:13PM by Gordon B. Stinky.

If mental illness is consistently viewed as maybe worsening during pandemic and also now nearly in still a post pandemic period, act accordingly.

Why did I have to read this post today?

One year ago, my little sister committed suicide. I've posted about it on the day I found out and about how we used to hide in the basement when our parents fought. She was depressed and bulimic growing up and our parents "treatment" of screaming at her didn't help. She ran off to live with a couple who took her in and ended up marrying their son. And I didn't help her because I was focused on joining the Navy. Some fucking brother I was.

Of course, my TBM mother and JackMo sperm donor are big anti-suicide crusaders now. Like Gordon's brother, they're just virtue signaling because it affected their image of a happy Mormon family. At least, Mom is like that. Sperm-donor still makes it about him. Even at the funeral, he barely talked about my sister and more about his "philosophy" about losing her.

If TBM family had just shown *half* of the love they preach about in life, my sister might still be alive today. If they had actually taken her, my youngest sister, and I to therapy instead of praying and belittling us, she might still be preparing for my youngest niece's birthday.

I'm sorry about your brother, Gordan, and that I don't have any answers on what to do. But I do know the urge to lash out at the hypocritical fuckers. The only advice I can give is to keep an eye on your niece.

Thanks, ookami. I'm so sorry to hear about your sister. A lot of what you write resonates with me.

I felt like I could have been a better brother too. My conscience told me all along that I should have lived closer. My brother lived most of his adult life around Seattle. I interviewed for work there multiple times through the 1990s, for just that reason, but inevitably turned down offers because salaries were the same as Atlanta, and the cost of living was so much higher that I didn't want to move.

I visited 2 or 3 times a year, and also flew him east for visits 2 or 3 times a year, so he was never more than a couple months away from something fun to anticipate. Still, he managed to hide a lot. I knew of one suicide attempt about ten years earlier, but apparently there were multiple, and he even had a short marriage that no one knew about, but it was in a window of time that my dad had driven him away with one of those haughty judgmental messages that my older brother had learned to emulate.

Anyway, before his first attempt, I felt like I should be out there. After the first attempt, I felt the same. Now, of course, I still feel guilty about it. Ultimately, though, I don't know if that would have made a difference, but I think it would have helped him just to have a brother around.


Man, ookami, I could go on and on with similar stories about hypocrisy, belittling, arguing, etc.

I am so sorry for both of you. My experiences pale in comparison but do know I understand and am in your corners. I think you are both fine people and any blame does not rest with you.

I wonder sometimes if Mormonism affects member's sensitivity to things like suicide and dying. Like it desensitizes them since it is a belief structure setup to "work" for dead people? It is like after the fact Mormons can be "good." Like a credit card? Be awful now and then when you are old you will temple work yourself to death paying the dead for your deficits?

I think it probably does.

My TBM convert brother was oddly sentimental at the memorial. Got choked up and teary eyed. (I did too, of course--that's what's appropriate).

My BiC TBM SIL apparently did not. SILs don't necessarily have the same emotional connection, and that's ok. But people should at least be respectful at funerals.

On the day after the memorial, we loaded up into cars and trekked up to the island where our mom grew up and a lot of us had spent a lot of time growing up to spread his cremated remains, but we tried to make a fun day of it. Guys in one car, Ladies in another. And kids all in a minivan driven by the one nephew who was old enough to drive (which was fun for all the cousins to bond).

My wife was shocked at my TBM SIL's callousness and endless critical comments about our brother in the "ladies" car. Her fake chipperness was mixed up with repeated commentary about how he "wasn't a good example," etc. Can you imagine criticizing someone at their funeral, to their widow?

Ironically, my deceased brother had up until that point been the only family member courageous enough to talk to my TBM brother about Mormonism. It resulted in a spat with the SIL, and his being shunned for the next few years until he passed. And then she turned up to bad mouth him at his funeral. Classy.

But I guess it's all ok, because they'll "do the work" for him, and get it all straightened out in the afterlife.

It's not just mormons unfortunately. My hubs had a boss for close to 18 years who had done a lot of above and beyond for him. A truly fine person. He did a lot for a lot of people. He had asked that hubs be a pallbearer and he was touched and honored to do it. There were many people in his family and church but he singled hubs out, it was that kind of relationship. After the service there was a reception in the cultural hall/kitchen area. The company had been bought out a few years before and the son of the owner started bad mouthing the deceased. Right there in front of his friends and family, everyone was stunned. I had experience with that kind of thing because of my own asshole relatives and I was not going to let that kind of crap pass. Just about the time I finished hubs walked in and the jerk asked if he could control his wife. Hubs just laughed and said he would never try.

No, it's definitely not only Mormons. Sorry to hear about that, Susan. Only a truly boorish lout denigrates someone at their funeral. My Methodist dad's biggest nemesis late in life was my elder brother's Catholic father-in-law, because of competition for time with the first grandson. The guy was truly an all around jerk, but in spite of that, and my dad's own flaws, my dad managed to be nice when the other guy passed away.

People's ability to be obtuse and insensitive is mind boggling though. I could write a book. I suspect we all could...

Not only is the need for money stressful, the way it was taken from her is sickening and increases her depression. One likes to think that close relatives are honest and fair but they usually are not. I am dealing with dishonest brothers and it isn't just about money.

It is a double whammy for a depressed person.Your brother is a dick and he needs to pay his niece along with interest owed. Feeling financially secure can be a big start in helping her depression.

You are right on all counts. My poor niece was so trusting that she asked at multiple junctures what she should do, and the people that she should trust least gave her self-serving advice.

Money can't buy happiness, but it can help alleviate some stress and problems.

Thanks for letting me rant, everyone! It's somewhat carthartic, and better not to do it where I'd really like to.