If you have also fine
If you have not also fine
It is your personal choice and I do not have the right to FORCIBLY INTERFERE WITH YOUR CHOICE
I am not your slave master



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2021 12:54PM by thedesertrat1.

Everyone already knows it is their choice.

It is also the choice of those who are vaccinated to not be in contact with the unvaccinated. Your right to breath ends where my lungs begin.

The unvaccinated are choosing to be avoided just like a person who chooses not to get a passport is choosing not to be allowed into a foreign country.

Choices come with a double edge just like some swords.

Like standing next to someone smoking.

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
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> I am not your slave master

Very unfortunate word choice, imho, I can't help saying.


Re To Get or Not to Get:

I just saw a news story about a 62 year old man in hospital with CV. He said he and his wife were ultra careful about measures to prevent contracting the virus because he is a double-lung transplant recipient (therefore, severely immunocompromised). They received their vaccinations as soon as they were called. Interviewed from his hospital bed, he said "we thought we were being really cautious", as they stressed the importance of preventive measures with family and friends and curtailed their activities. However, he ended up getting sick with COVID and his recovery is not assured.

He said he doesn't know where he caught the virus. However, they held a family photo shoot and, unknown to him, some members weren't vaxxed. His son tearfully stated "I'll get the vaccine now". Uh...

The father, through his breathing tubes, from his ICU bed, said "I guess we weren't careful enough".

Yeah. It's the gathering. And the willingness and honesty of people around you to help protect you as well as themselves.

Fortunately, it's a sunny day today on our Thanksgiving. Maybe people will gather outdoors if they must. Or at least open some windows. Keep the air circulating. The least you can do for each other.

It is not only a "personal choice". By being vaxxed you can help to protect everyone who's breathing the same air as you, including your most cherished loved ones.

What's the argument there? Sheesh.

What a lovely Canadian Thanksgiving message. Hope you are having a beautiful day that repays all the graciousness you always share.

Hunker down with a good book and eat something that you really love :)

Hi Sus. Just on my way to buy a turkey breast (already prepared). I finally broke down and thought I can't just have toast for Thanksgiving. I deserve a treat! It won't be like the feasts Mom excelled at but hey, it'll be meat and some garden-fresh potatoes and raw carrots (I don't like them cooked). Best I can do - I didn't inherit Mom's chef gene. I hope I don't forget the cranberries.

As for a good book, it'll be forensics for me. I'm so hooked on it. This is a Kathy Reichs. I read every one of her books and clamour for more. It's hard to wait a year between. Her main character (a brilliant forensic scientist) lives in the USA but spends time in Quebec with her retired police officer partner. Makes for interesting cases and fun interplay between the two. And her cat who's full of personality. As cats are.

Yeah, could be worse. Always. Oh, and my brother is going to be here. Maybe I'll share my turkey. Or not. :)

I am glad you got some turkey NG :) I just get a breast too. Nice that your brother is coming, make him bring something lol. Maybe dessert. The books look interesting, I will have to check them out. I have been on a Darcy Coates binge but I don't think you would like them. Well written but I don't think you are big into horror lol. If you do want a Halloween read try Craven Manor.

Nighty, I just saw your remark about liking forensics. I'm afraid I never heard of Kathy Reichs.

Have you read any of Patricia Cornwell's "Scarpetta" books? I just pre-ordered her 25th one. I have learned more stuff about medical terminology from her than I ever did from my 2 years in medical transcription. And she explains WHY medical things work the way they do, so there is a lot of stuff that a science ignoramus like me can learn.

I'll have to check out Kathy Reichs!! Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.

Thanks Catnip. I love a big beefy series. I bet you two would like the Jonathan Kellerman Dr. Delaware books. There are 37and counting. A little different perspective, he is a child psychologist but doesn't stay in his lane much. Very well written and action packed.

Spot on. I am a big fan of Jon Kellerman. I haven't read any of the books he has co-written with his son, however.

Thanks, D&D. Love you.

I've seen a news story of someone who has had transplant surgery and who has family members who refuse to get vaccinated. Sad and tragic.

Vaxxed or not, the virus get into you it it is around. I don't understand why people think that being vaxxed will make the virus reject sticking into you.

>> If you have not also fine <<

I know it's a persons choice, even if the choice cost's them their job or their life.

I don't think it's "fine" to choose not to get it, because that can cost others their lives.

Getting it or not isn't some benign choice that has no affect on others.

Roy G Biv Wrote:
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> I don't think it's "fine" to choose not to get it,
> because that can cost others their lives.
>
> Getting it or not isn't some benign choice that
> has no affect on others.

May I say Amen.

And Amen.

Nightingale Wrote:
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> Roy G Biv Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't think it's "fine" to choose not to get
> it,
> > because that can cost others their lives.
> >
> > Getting it or not isn't some benign choice that
> > has no affect on others.
>
> May I say Amen.
>
> And Amen.
I can accept that you feel that way Can you accept the way I feel?

Of course I can accept that you feel that way. I just feel different and was pointing that out.

I can accept that people want to drink bleach or take horse worm medication. I'd point out that I feel different than they do too.

I'm not sure, DR, if you were addressing me or Roy. I see that he's answered. Again I'd agree with his comment, that of course I accept that you can have a different opinion. However, I disagree with it. In the case of COVID, two opposite opinions are not equal to each other. It's not, imho, that it's OK to have confidence in vaccines and it's equally OK not to have confidence. It's understandable to have questions but to me, in a case of a public health matter, the expert opinions of physicians and scientists outweigh the feelings or opinions of non-experts.

Knowing that I could potentially pass on a virus to a vulnerable person who could die from it is a powerful incentive for me to be vaccinated. The bonus is that it can also protect me.

For me it's a case of Love Your Neighbour and Yourself. So it's not a case where personal choice is paramount because one's personal choice re declining the vax affects others. As others have commented, there are all kinds of ways in which our personal choices do not trump all others, as in wearing seatbelts, obeying traffic laws, using cabs rather than driving ourselves if we've been drinking, not jaywalking, showing up for jury duty if we're summoned, renewing car insurance annually and driver's licenses when due, paying taxes and the list goes on. So many things we do not have "free choice" about.

To me, refusing to vax is not a hill to die on. Perhaps literally.

If you get into my car you need to buckle your seat belt

If you have fine
If you have not I may get a ticket
It is your personal choice and I do have the right to FORCIBLY INTERFERE WITH YOUR CHOICE. (The seat belt beeper is going off)
If you do not fasten your belt and we get in a wreck, you will fly through the window.
You are my passenger, just trying to keep you safe

Sure, it's your choice but it is a demonstration of concern for others or selfishness. People who have no desire to help protect others and work as a team for the public health are not "fine" but are basically assholes with a few exceptions. It's one thing to be tolerant of the choices others make. It's quite another when it involves a respiratory pandemic. There are 700,000 dead people who are not "fine" with people not doing their part.

I got my third and still wear my mask when in public because I care about my fellow human beings. Is nearly 3/4 of a million dead Americans not enough?

Thank you!

As soon as I qualify for a 3rd Moderna jab I'll be at the head of the line!....and I still wear a mask in public too.

Maybe by next weekend in the US, fingers crossed.

Us, too—both vaxxed and still wear masks, and never miss a chance to stay home.

Quebec nurses who refuse the vaccination will have their licences to practice suspended. Works for me.

Do you know how to fly a plane? Southwest in a bit of a bind.

There are a whole bunch of pilots flying midnight runs for FedEx and similar companies, that are just waiting for openings at passenger airlines, so they can get day jobs. It normally takes them several years for a pilot to get an opening. They'd be thrilled if a bunch of passenger airline pilots got laid off. It would take some months to get them trained and certified, but that is not an insurmountable obstacle.

If there are people lower in the pyramid than you that want your position, threatening to take your ball and go home can be problematic.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> There are a whole bunch of pilots flying midnight
> runs for FedEx and similar companies, that are
> just waiting for openings at passenger airlines,
> so they can get day jobs. It normally takes them
> several years for a pilot to get an opening.
> They'd be thrilled if a bunch of passenger airline
> pilots got laid off. It would take some months to
> get them trained and certified, but that is not an
> insurmountable obstacle.
>
> If there are people lower in the pyramid than you
> that want your position, threatening to take your
> ball and go home can be problematic.

Ben Shapiro:
It turns out when you panic the vaxxed about working and bar the unvaxxed from working and pay everybody not to work, nobody works.

Well if Ben Shapiro says it, it must be true.

Most of the Red states stopped "paying everybody not to work" almost three months ago. It was a nation-sized experiment on whether that would make any difference in the employment rates between the two sets of states. It did not.

Not that actual data matters. Some things are so obviously true contradictory data can be ignored.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> Some things seem so obviously true that contradictory data can be ignored.

You're welcome.

Jerry,

Are you sure the data shows paying people not to work doesn't encourage people not to work? I know people who don't work because they have income. I think there are times in my life I wouldn't have worked if I had income.

What am I missing here?

You’re looking at the wrong end of the problem. The claim was that a lot of jobs are going unfilled because of the unemployment benefits. About half the states ended the extended benefits midsummer. If unemployment benefits were the reason the jobs were going unfilled, they should have started filling in the states that cut off benefits. That did not happen.

The real problem is that there are also labor shortages in industries that pay better, have better schedules, and benefits like health insurance and paid vacation and sick days, so people are taking those jobs rather than food service, Uber driver, and the like.

I have conservative friends who thought a law raising the minimum wage to $15 by 2025 was a terrible idea that would destroy the economy yada yada. The irony is that fast food places in SLC are advertising $11 to $13 starting salaries, more for shift managers, right now in 2021. That’s higher than what the minimum wage law that was defeated earlier this year was aiming for.

2020 was a miserable year for blue collar workers, but it created a lot of pent up demand, and a lot of demand for stuff, since nobody was spending money on travel. We’re seeing the result of that now. A lot of industries are getting caught flat footed.

I would like to add that child care is a huge issue. Schools and daycare facilities have been opening and closing due to the virus. Most of the people I know who can't work are juggling how to work while caring for their kids.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I have conservative friends who thought a law
> raising the minimum wage to $15 by 2025 was a
> terrible idea that would destroy the economy yada
> yada. The irony is that fast food places in SLC
> are advertising $11 to $13 starting salaries, more
> for shift managers, right now in 2021. That’s
> higher than what the minimum wage law that was
> defeated earlier this year was aiming for.

Fast-food businesses are raising their wages for two reasons:

1) Increased automation means fewer workers are needed. This is everything to on-line ordering, order kiosks the stores, to robotic product preparation.
2) Because of the huge still-at-home labor force, they were forced to increase wages to attract workers.

Let's note that you're reporting on SLC, which has a better economy than most of the country, so upward wage pressure is to be expected.

Glad to know you have conservative friends, Bro'Jerry. I'm pulling for you!

As I poked around search engines, most of the reports about extended/terminated Covid unemployment benefits were reports from the summer months. It takes a while for policies like these to gain traction, so I wondered, is there more recent data?

I didn't find much. But I did find, from a short piece in wallethub.com, this, dated Oct. 7 of this year:

"18 states had unemployment claims last week that were lower than before the pandemic: South Carolina, Arkansas, West Virginia, South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, Nevada, Illinois, Washington, New Hampshire, Arizona, North Dakota, Delaware, Maryland and New Jersey."

A definite mix, tilting red.

source:
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-unemployment-claims/72730

Then there's this:

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-unemployment-rates/74907

States with the lowest unemployment tend to be red, with a fair mix-in of blues and purples. States with the highest unemployment are clustered blue. But data with clear distinctions between states having extended vs. terminated Covid unemployment benefits are hard to find.

My blue state has no shortage of "Now Hiring" signs.

It is not my choice to have an unvaccinated fool give me covid. Your freedom ends where my lungs begin.

Did you get your 2nd dose, or are you talking about the booster shots?

I see one of the 2-dose boosters are out. I took the 1-dose J&J vaccine which is supposed to have a booster available by the end of the month.

It was the second shot in the series of 2

Unlike the Second Anointing that save you, the Second Vaccination saves not only you, but all those around you, including your loved ones.

Had my booster shot this morning. Unremarkable except that unlike the first and second shot experience there was far fewer people there.

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
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> If you have also fine
> If you have not also fine

Not saying much here-

> It is your personal choice and I do not have the right to [FORCE YOU TO DO ANYTHING; ITS YOUR CHOICE]

Free country. Individual choices, individual voices...

> I am not your slave master

Great, because I'd whip you if you were.

Noise Wrote:
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> thedesertrat1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> > I am not your slave master


Maybe a wrong choice of words …


> Great, because I'd whip you if you were.


… I don’t think you could whip him.

kathleen Wrote:
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> Noise Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > thedesertrat1 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > > I am not your slave master
>
>
> Maybe a wrong choice of words …
>

TRUE


>
> … I don’t think you could whip him.

Sorry, it's already done.

Desertrat1, we got our shots, too; and also, we avoid crowds and stay home at every opportunity. If we have to go to Costco, we wait until the parking lot is only half full or less. Restaurants? —-only if we travel and then we take our food to the car. None of us are completely out of the woods, yet.

Something tells me that the way you cook, your family doesn’t need no restaurant.


:)