Read on Church news site of Rusty attending somewhere recently and speaking. He said BoM is not a historical record yet talks about Jesus visiting people here in and talking to them and blessing them. He said e would benefit is we studied this account. My question to Dusty is this. If the BoM is not a historical record how do we know this happened? If it happened as it is written then it is a historical record. We need a better explanation from God’s prophet to the world on what you said. It does not make sense.

Or, just getting really desperate?

I think he’s having the time of his life. When you are 96 you don’t have anything to lose. I think the man has thrown caution to the wind and is changing everything to the way he wants it to be knowing it will be difficult for prophets after him to change things back. Nelson wants a mainstream Christian church that is globally respected.

Not hard to believe that could be the case. But--does that imply that Russ knows (admitting to himself at least) that they really are--just another church. Even run of the mill?

This is my observation. Everyone can be programmed. You become what you constantly bombard yourself with. Even a con artist can program themselves into believing their own deceptions.

I would say with Russell M Nelson he’s programmed. I think he doesn’t think any deeper than making the church into what he believes is best for it. That means putting Jesus front and center and changing the old ways of doing things.

I notice several of the Church News articles focus on how the church has changed over the years and tells the reader to expect more change.

In short the church is programming the membership change is good. Prophets exist to change things.

Programming.Your slant adds a lot to the do-they-really-believe conversation.
Russ believes so much in his own prophethood that he can carry the assumption that anything he does is inspired---or that God chose him because he knows how to fly solo. That would explain my brother as well. I much prefer Russ to him though.


My Dad was as TBM as you get but I never heard him talk about Joe and his book. He always stayed focused on Jesus although he always said, "The Savior". If he were alive he would be the same age as Russ and probably still reading Talmage's book on Christ over and over still.

They say this all the time. Their book is a spiritual record for spiritual eyes but don't question them about the historicity. Rusty will defend that to the end.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2021 02:05PM by Elder Berry.

This happened on the 17th in a devotional broadcast from SLC to mormons in Kansas and Oklahoma. It was covered in the Church News; I'm not going to bother to provide a link.

Per the CN synopsis, Nelson said that the BOM isn't a *textbook*. This isn't a new position at all, as he said the exact same thing back in 2016.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1840830

This talking point is one way for the church to wave off the anachronisms and glaring omissions in the BOM. Those pesky details like no evidence of horses or chariots or swords or mighty cities don't matter because this isn't a textbook.

Wendy's devotional message was more annoying and culty. She "invited" listeners to "study, and study again" *all 31* of Nelson's GC addresses since he became Prez. Leader worship much?

If I were ever caught in such a meeting I would just raise my hand and ask in which chapter is the Fullness of the Gospel they always claimed the BoM contained. Cuz all I found was bloody wars and curses from God.

As for Wendy--the more important she can make Russ, the more important she makes herself by association. Being Prophet-Adjacent has its perks.

Wendy is the Tammy Baker of Mormonism. Truly a disgusting creature. The times she is in an interview or speaking and say something like ... "My husband..blahblahblagh" or like what is referenced above to read Rusty's GC addresses. She portends to be a Spiritual currency digger, but I think she is going after real money... the stuff you use to buy anything in this world. Her husband is a big deal, dontchaknow?

The mormon church has a lot of women like her and she is enjoying being queen. I can't stand Rusty, but my desire for him to kick the bucket has more to do with her losing her stature as once he is dead, she'll be nothing to the mormons.

Try to think of any other GA wife.

I tend to go also with D&D--desperation!

I really can't wait to see the fallout when Rusty's reign ends.

I went to the archives and found one about Aunt Wendy and her talk on 4 steps to love in a marriage. I said some pretty mean things there and the admins took it down which was probably a good idea. I have some real vitriol for that freaking..sister...in..Zion...freaking!!.. Wendy gives off a very insincere, Holier than me vibe. My unrighteousness cannot stand to look upon her righteous smug countenance. Though they are not the same, there is something equally irritating as Wendy and Julie Rowe. (Ive recently discovered that phenomenon..and WOW! is all I can say.

Anyway,

Like you I wonder how the next head geezer in charge will cleanup the prophetic mess left by ol'Russ the Revelator. If it is Oaks, I wonder how much he would change? Is he onboard with this or like during the Hosana Shout, is he really out of step and biding time till he is commanding the pulpit? Mormonism is one ever-unfolding train wreck. I just want to fast forward to the extremely sensational parts.

Russ is pretty slick. He understands setting up the narrative. “We are continuing the restoration” basically is a clever way to say we are going to change things. Most people will buy into it.

By saying The Book of Mormon isn’t a historical record simply means don’t get caught up in the factual flaws of the book. Don’t get caught up in the details look at the broader message. Most people will buy into that as well.

I think where the church really is failing is not putting enough resources into real charity. How about building some hospitals? I think the best things church’s ever gave us were hospitals and universities. Many communities had a hospital because a church provided one.

Focusing on building more temple dead dunking assembly lines is going to be a huge fail. Temples were built to make the members feel they were special. They have often been referred to the “mountain of the Lord”. There was something magical about traveling to go to this holy and special place.

Having too many of these things will ruin everything the temple ever was about. It will be like showing how all the magic tricks are done. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were masters at psychology. They knew how to hang a carrot out there for people to chase. The current church is dumping bags of carrots over people’s heads. There is nothing special to chase anymore.

“We[They] are continuing the restoration”

This is the mantra of many old Mormons I know.

Restoration means going back to what something was. What year are we going back to? 1830? Then church would just be a sacrament meeting. 1852? Then the church goes back to open polygamy. What they really are doing is a reformation not a restoration.

Yes. And, you can't restore something and distance yourself from it at the same time. On top of that, restoring is the opposite of re-defining and re-branding. The thinking processes of Russ and cohorts boggle the mind.

Russ knows saying I’m reforming the church would upset too many members so he’s going ahead with the reformations and label it as continuing the restoration.

It’s his Jedi mind trick.

The church could build some sewage treatment plants. They could be cherished as holy places; even sources of inspiration.

do you realize how few people are even aware that he spoke let alone what he said.
Corporate never lets rank and file know what is really going on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2021 07:43PM by thedesertrat1.

I’m sure Russ is fully aware. Ha! Ha! He’s just going to change things. Already you don’t have to switch your robe, take your slippers on and off and tie that annoying string on your hat to the robe.

It would be too funny if people went to the temple and it’s a whole new movie and you don’t have to take anything out of the temple pack. No robes, no headwear, no sashes, no silky green aprons.

How many members would actually like to see that silly stuff go? I bet most of them to be honest. Most honest members I know hate the endowment.

Then initiatory could just be: Brother so and so, I pronounce you clean and give you a new name of Flounder. This name is sacred and should never be mentioned until you are asked for it in a certain place in this temple.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’m sure Russ is fully aware. Ha! Ha! He’s
> just going to change things. Already you don’t
> have to switch your robe, take your slippers on
> and off and tie that annoying string on your hat
> to the robe.
>
> It would be too funny if people went to the temple
> and it’s a whole new movie and you don’t have
> to take anything out of the temple pack. No robes,
> no headwear, no sashes, no silky green aprons.
>
> How many members would actually like to see that
> silly stuff go? I bet most of them to be honest.
> Most honest members I know hate the endowment.
>
> Then initiatory could just be: Brother so and so,
> I pronounce you clean and give you a new name of
> Flounder. This name is sacred and should never be
> mentioned until you are asked for it in a certain
> place in this temple.

They would have been light years ahead had they instituted such changes decades ago. Instead many of us have traumatic experiences instead of semi-inspirational experiences. At the time, I thought my college library was a superb place for quiet meditation on a Friday afternoon. No kooky costumes, gruff temple workers and you could sit where you wanted to for as long as you desired.

Which temple (of learning or house of the lord) is really a temple?

That's what someone would say when they have to defend something they know is BS.

I feel sorry for dedicated Mormons today. They've been faithful morgbots throughout the years, giving their time and money and defending their faith. It must be so confusing and disheartening when their leaders tell them the Book of Mormon, that is so crucial to their beliefs, is a work of fiction -- just a bunch of made up stories. But that's what it's always been. They were told that from the beginning. Why don't they remember? They must not have been paying attention or were not worthy or something. Gaslighting.

"Either the Book of Mormon is what the Prophet Joseph said it is, or this Church and its founder are false, a deception from the first instance onward." - Jeffery R. Holland, Feb 2020

who remembers 'Keystone of our religion'?

I think that most adult attendees are 'sorta TBMs', they go to see & be seen by family, friends, & neighbors...

If they bother with (what we call) details, there are 2 or more ways of dealing with that circumstance/situation.

The last time I attended (last summer) it was in SLC (the avenues) with a gf with whom we were enjoying lots of affection together (guess what...).

It was a Sunday morning meeting, leaders were there, but no Sacrament; I asked for an explanation, but failed to understand...

Cafeteria Mormons, that pretty much says it.

Q: What do Mormons believe?

A: The last thing they are told.

Mormonism is on an identical path with that of the JWs. JWs claim the light of the Bible grows brighter every day so any changes they make to doctrine are a result of more brightness. There is always an excuse or justification for revisions.

It's fascinating how slippery they can believe in one area and be total prudes in another, from recent GC there was one brother who said 'if you don't come to church you can pretty much plan on forfitting your family'

Statements like this are hurtful to many many part member families and less actives.

You have to look at it with your spiritual eyes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2021 09:43AM by bradley.

Yeah, desperate. An old captain at the helm, trying to right his listing ship. Now he has to use every lie in the book, knowing that the "real" members of his flock will help gaslight their own selves.

The thing is:
how many rank and file members even have an inkling that he even made that statement?
And if you are a Truly Brainwashed Mormon would it make any difference?
Their House of Cards is collapsing around them and they are too blind to see it!!!!!!!!!!!!