Would they still have a church? It seems Rusty said publicly that the BoM is not a historical record. Mormons can memory-hole anything, so the church could in principle pivot to a virtuous mythology rather than fundamentalism. They could teach why mythology is such a powerful tool and explain away Joseph's pious lies as the work of a creative genius.

I would guess they figured this out, so those of us waiting for the church's demise could be in for a long wait.

Most of the intelligentsia already believe that Joe made it all up, all those liberal professors st byu, and what happens at the university tends to distil on the general population over time, so we just have to wait and see the demise, it's happening with crt which use to be a theory for intellectuals, now many common people believe on that stuff.

I think the majority know what the deal is but keep going because of peer pressure. They justify this by saying things like,"It's still a great place to raise your kids". The lie doesn't matter because they feel good.

Sit down, sit down, sitdownsitdown, Sit Down. You're rocking the boat!

It must be real. It is their passageway to the Unseen World, and that has to be 100%, absolutely true. The Unseen World is where all their prejudices and preconceptions and self-validations originate- like Plato's Forms. If the Unseen World is not there, then their world views just might be subjective after all, and that they cannot abide.

The ultimate proof of this Unseen World is the Final Battle at Armageddon. The main point of that thinking is that Jesus will really and truly show up, and his main job at that time is to declare to the rest of humanity that the Believers were right about everything after all, so there, you sinners. So they cannot allow a mythic interpretation of things like the Fall and the Flood and Jesus walking on water. All those things have to be 100% real and scientifically demonstrable. Even if they have to twist science out of all recognition to prove it.

IMO.

They'd have to think first, which isn't likely to happen (without awakening and learning-realizing the truth and reality and severity and urgency of it all) without disaffection.

Most things Mormon are like the golden plates. They can only be viewed with your spiritual eyes.
Which means that if you try hard enough you can make yourself believe almost anything.

I guess I didn't try hard enough.
I NEVER belived in mormon superstitions, stories and promises.

Because of the social part of it they would hold together as a social group.
Besides everybody needs something to grab on to!

MORmONism is big business.
That part works exceedingly well.
Because of that they will never admit it is just a myth.
The myth needs to be busted.
Things like CES Letter and Book of Mormon on Broadway are doing a pretty good job of that!

Mormons don't agree
They just accept

Then,

A) these "Mormons" would likely be ex-Mormons on ex-Mormon discussion boards, like this one, chatting it up with us bitching about they used to be in a cult and,

B) there would be no "church" besides whoever is still tasked with managing the billions in assets the organization legally owns.

Btw, my personal opinion but I think people are misconstruing and exaggerating what Nelson said about the Book of Mormon being a "historical text."

I don't think he's saying it's not historical. I can't say what he REALLY believes when it comes to the historicity of the BoM but I think he was trying to say, we shouldn't use the BoM for historical purposes and only use it for "spiritual" purposes.

I'm sure he realizes, at this point, that trying to prove or defend the historicity of the BoM will only cause problems as a whole for the church and so he is trying to get members to stop focusing on the historicity of it and, instead, just focus on the religious or spiritual aspect of it which, in religious terms, doesn't require evidence or facts, only faith and religious bias.

There's a reason the church put out that statement that it doesn't claim to know where the BoM specifically took place (because THEY DO NOT KNOW where it took place).

Religion requires faith, NOT evidence.

It reminds me of being on my mission when the two smart and highly regarded AP's had completely different theories about where the Hill Cumorah and Book of Mormon took place. They were both COMPLETE believers in the historicity of the BoM but they both COMPLETELY disagreed about where it took place. One believed in the "one Cumorah" theory and the other believed in the "two Cumorahs" theory. One was absolutely convinced there was only one Cumorah and that it was in New York and that the Book of Mormon took place in NE USA. The other was convinced it took place in Mesoamerica but that Moroni made the journey to New York state to bury the plates.

Either theory is fraught with real world historical and archaeological problems but it only makes things worse for fragile testimonies to be exposed to these problems. To preserve as many Mormon testimonies as possible, it's better for Mormons to simply ignore and not think about the evidence than to try and make it work into their preconceived notions of the BoM historicity.

Any time I dig too much into ANY subject, my opinion always changes. I'm sure Nelson knows this too and that MORE members will lose their testimonies, than be preserved, if they focus too much on the "temporal evidence" vs the "spiritual evidence."

It's like the Wizard of Oz. When he says do not look behind the curtain, he's not intentionally implying that "the wizard" is not real or "all powerful," he just doesn't want them to look behind the curtain because he knows it will expose him for what he is. He COULD just say, "I'm the wizard and I have no special powers" but instead he is trying to keep the remaining believers from being exposed to the troublesome evidence behind the curtain that that pesky little dog already knows.

"Look, just don't worry about all those pesky, little details." Ignorance is "bliss" as they say. The details will only confuse you.

"When he says do not look behind the curtain, he's not intentionally implying that "the wizard" is not real or "all powerful," he just doesn't want them to look behind the curtain because he knows it will expose him for what he is."

Or it will destroy their faith. In other words, their faith relies on them remaining hoodwinked. The leadership is an aristocracy that purposely keeps the rube class in the dark. Because that's what God would want.

But what about the father of lies? Who is fooling who? Are they doing their father's bidding in the tradition of Emperor Palatine?

They could all go home and live happily ever after

Would not make much difference to most members.

They are still there from Gold Plates to magic peepstone in a hat - and the lies of "that is what it has always been".

They are still there with "mormon is a victory for Satan" and the full church name, even as MoronicPriesthood Central is using Church of Jesus Christ - the legal name of another church.

As long as those in charge keep dishing out the swill those who want it will keep at it no matter what changes.

When I put on my PR spin glasses and look at what Russ the Revelator said regarding the BoM not being a "historical textbook" I see that statement and concept as building wiggle room to say "The church still says it is 100% true. It just was not compiled in such a way as to prove anything through a scientific method. The BoM is only for spiritual understanding of the truthfulness of what we are telling you as true." SO when the historical record cannot acknowledge such a civilization existed, their answer is who cares, spiritually you know it is true because you get tingles up your spine. In the coming years, it also paves the way for the "ongoing restoration" to use the exit or detour to get off the 100% historical fact road and get on the we've always said it was metaphor highway to continue to milk folk of their cash and time.

They will not admit in any certain terms it is myth, allegory, metaphor, inspired fiction for years to come. That play is in the back pocket to be used when they are most desperate. I suspect Bednar will be nigh unto the end of his prophetic mantle, or maybe he will leave it for the schmuck to come after him. Just a guess. It will not be anytime soon is my point.

cheezus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... regarding the BoM not being a "historical textbook"...
>


True- mormon leaderSH*T wants it both ways

It's the most incorrect, useless, fabricated storyline (to keep people in line) NON-historical, untrue, boring book out there. It is also anti-mormon, and is USELESS by peddling missing aries. They can't sell it. Just like Joseph Smith (who wrote the ficticious account for the record [world record of being the most ridiculous, preposterous, and aweful self-published book ever]) before them.

How can you tell when a mormon is talking? They always "TALK".
Because they are lying. Making stuff up. Sharing FALSE information.

Reading out of a book ABOUT PEOPLE KILLING PEOPLE
Stealing, doing WICKED things... etc.

Mormon MIS"leaders" KNOW it is false, fabricated, made-up
So they say its not historical, accurate, important or relevant

It could be worse. Mormonism could have come straight from Hell. Consider when the devil tempted Christ in his 40 days in the wilderness. Now compare that to Nephi.

"It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief”

That's when Nephi went over to the dark side.

So an entire civilization was built on this book obtained by murder. That’s like a rabbi being knifed for a Torah to preserve Judaism. Maybe the message is that Mormonism is a shadow religion masquerading as Christ-centered.

The BoM is very focused on material prosperity. It's prosperity gospel for the poor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2021 07:07AM by bradley.

There is this axiom in every cult.

If you ask questions you show other people you do not get it. So better not ask questions. Ignorance becomes a core virtue.

I would give the church a pass EXCEPT for the fact that the church is an evil organization. It has a horrible track record on every meaningful reform- racism, homophobia, misogyny, equality, ERA for all, women as people.

Leaders have threatened families: If your spouse is inactive, non-believer then LEAVE and find someone who is in "harmony" with the teachings of the gospel.

They encouraged parents to cut off family ties with rebellious and wayward teens. Many told to get out if they refused to attend church.

Numerous stories and talks about being better to die than to suffer sexual assault, rape. They even had an apostle blame victims for their role in being a victim. Totally messed up.

Plenty of parents have told their missionary sons and daughters that the only way to come home honorably early is in a pine box.

And there's plenty more from those perverted worthiness interviews to all their lying for the lord.

The church apologizes for nothing. The leaders can do no wrong (B S).

Forgot that they use F E A R to motivate people to stay in.

No tithing, then your home will burn!

You will lose your family if you leave the church.

You will spend all eternity in outer darkness if you stop believing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2021 12:07PM by messygoop.

messygoop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would give the church a pass EXCEPT for the fact
> that the church is an evil organization. It has a
> horrible track record on every meaningful reform-
> racism, homophobia, misogyny, equality, ERA for
> all, women as people.
>
> Leaders have threatened families: If your spouse
> is inactive, non-believer then LEAVE and find
> someone who is in "harmony" with the teachings of
> the gospel.
>
> They encouraged parents to cut off family ties
> with rebellious and wayward teens. Many told to
> get out if they refused to attend church.
>
> Numerous stories and talks about being better to
> die than to suffer sexual assault, rape. They even
> had an apostle blame victims for their role in
> being a victim. Totally messed up.
>
> Plenty of parents have told their missionary sons
> and daughters that the only way to come home
> honorably early is in a pine box.
>
> And there's plenty more from those perverted
> worthiness interviews to all their lying for the
> lord.
>
> The church apologizes for nothing. The leaders can
> do no wrong (B S).
>
> Forgot that they use F E A R to motivate people to
> stay in.
>
> No tithing, then your home will burn!
>
> You will lose your family if you leave the
> church.
>
> You will spend all eternity in outer darkness if
> you stop believing.

Nice List!

..yeah ..yeah ...yeah

(you'rejustanangryexmormon)
> > Totally Joking < <

I grew tired of hearing that even if everything about the restored church is FALSE, it still does so much good for the world that it should be left alone and not criticized.

The church used too boast that it had the truth, all the answers and the only authority to receive direct revelation from god and do his will.

And now the message seems to be that god works in mysterious ways and the church nor the members have all the answers to life's mysteries.

I am calling them out on their changes.