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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: November 29, 2021 12:08PM

Well, the question I should have asked are which parts don't?

I think the forever families coming from a super believing and dysfunctional one and then being a terrible parent when I believed and disbelieved really breaks my heart.

Mormonism is the cult of traditional family. Where Scientology is "clearly" focused on the individual, Mormonism is Celestially focused on a fiction - traditional families. Humans in all our history probably never had something like the post war one size fits all family. Mormonism started playing God in putting groups of unrelated and somewhat related and related through marriage peoples together. Post-polygamy everything got focused on the traditional family and The Mormons were going to outdo the world in their heavenly zeal to seal.

It tears me up that my kids and my wife deal with fictional pains because of me.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: November 29, 2021 12:41PM

It’s not because of you—-it’s because of them.

If I saw someone beating you up like you’re beating yourself up, I’d call the police.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: November 29, 2021 01:59PM

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It’s not because of you—-it’s because of
> them.
>
> If I saw someone beating you up like you’re
> beating yourself up, I’d call the police.
But Kathleen how can I resolve my masocistic(spelling) fixations if I don't self fallgulate?( talk about spelling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: November 29, 2021 02:38PM

I can take a punch. Learned to in my youth.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: November 29, 2021 12:42PM

It's anti family to the point of being anti human.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 01, 2021 12:18AM

Agreed.

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Posted by: Jaxson ( )
Date: November 29, 2021 12:48PM

I have a 16-year old grandson who has told his parents (my daughter/son-in-law) that he wants to serve a mission. My daughter is kind of a "fence sitting" TBM who refuses to share her concerns about Mormonism with my grandson. She has recommended to him that he do a year of work/school after high school before going on his mission though. At least my son-in-law has stressed to him that it is HIS decision and whether he goes or not has no influence over the unconditional love he has for him. My grandson has a girlfriend though, his "first love" (the Bishop's daughter) who I fear will influence him to go.

I hope my grandson will ask me why I never went on a mission and eventually left the church, but I doubt that will happen. If he follows through with going on a mission, I will be sad, but support him (not financially) just as I did with my own son.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: November 29, 2021 01:00PM

The veiled intolerance for anything that isn't them.

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Posted by: Maca not logged in ( )
Date: November 29, 2021 01:06PM

The focus on temples, amd dead dunking everyone grieves me, my folks are so religious and index all day long every day, not the quality genealogy of actually doing the work of finding and archiving documents but sitting on family search and fighting with other old people about some British person from 1500, seems like a waste of time to me?

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Posted by: Tyson Dunn ( )
Date: November 29, 2021 02:03PM


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Posted by: Shinehah ( )
Date: November 29, 2021 02:35PM

I attended the funeral of a widow who was a distant relative.
In his talk at the funeral, the bishop was praising how faithful she was because she was skipping meals to pay tithing.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: November 29, 2021 02:41PM

I guess you don't need that gold in your teeth if you aren't eating much.

"They gave the gold from their dental work to help pay on the temple, said President Faust. He explained that he had purchased some of that gold, for more than the market price, and has shown the gold fillings to various congregations to illustrate the nature of the sacrifice made by these members."
https://www.thechurchnews.com/archives/1998-05-09/be-loyal-worthy-to-enter-temple-members-urged-127595

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Posted by: Anziano Young ( )
Date: November 29, 2021 06:36PM

The persistent apologetics for polygamy.

My dad recently came to visit and we drove over to my bother's house. My brother is teaching seminary this year, and the curriculum is D&C--so of course, one of the lessons is on polygamy. He and my dad (who worked for CES for forty years) got into a long discussion about how polygamy was an unmitigated benefit for everyone involved. The mental hoops they jumped through--"most polygamous relationships weren't sexual, it was to give women stability and a family name" at the same time as "it was to raise up seed to the Lord and worked splendidly!"--as they plotted how to present this to impressionable teenagers so they would embrace polygamy was shameless. That's brainwashing, folks, for the students and my brother and dad, who are in so deep they can't accept that the church has ever done anything wrong.

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Posted by: Joseph's Myth ( )
Date: November 29, 2021 07:00PM

Polygamy is bad bad bad.. worse that the LDS were led to think.

I grew up in a Sex Cult!

(himynameisjosephsmyth)

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Posted by: blackcoatsdaughter ( )
Date: November 30, 2021 10:12AM

Tithing and the way it is pushed as this sign of devotion that applies even to poor people who genuinely can't spare the money. It is seen as virtuous in a choice between tithing and food/electric/health to choose tithing and knowing that it doesn't do anything (that a god would have to be an evil god to ask for such blind devotion before he'd be willing to offer divine help to those struggling) and that it just accumulates in a huge vault that the church uses to build empty temples for DEAD people... It just makes me sad all the hope people put into paying tithing because they were sold this idea that an all loving Father god puts a monetary amount on their worthiness and that the rewards in some next life will be better regardless of the virtuous suffering they and their family are doing right here, right now.

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Posted by: Nuggett ( )
Date: November 30, 2021 10:19AM

That my mother spent most of her time in the church terrified that she would die and be a sister wife in the CK.

Fortunately my entire family left together, so no more worries!

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: November 30, 2021 01:31PM

Nuggett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That my mother spent most of her time in the
> church terrified that she would die and be a
> sister wife in the CK.

The tragedy that happened to Zola Brown (formerly Jeffs) Hodson is unquestionably a Mormon tragedy. She was my grandmother though I didn't know her well. My mother didn't want anyone getting attention that she thought was her due.

Zola married Rulon Jeffs who after fathering two sons decided to rejoin his father's polygamist group. Zola's father wasn't having his daughter doing this since it was the 1940s. No modern Mormon did that anymore. So he easily secured a divorce. He was a high powered lawyer and up and coming priesthood leader.

After the divorce like 5 years Zola ran into an old friend from the LDS High School days where she and Rulon had met. Waldo wasn't the man Rulon was but in those years being a divorcee was tantamount to being an apostate. Waldo Hodson was divorced as well so they made a match of convenience. Zola never loved Waldo to the degree she needed and fretted until the end of her life about never finding the love of her life.

And after it ended someone (possibly through my own polygamist sister) resealed Zola to Rulon making her part of a list of many wives of Rulon in the LDS records. I've seen them.

So there you have it. Zola marries the man she loves. He disappoints her epically leaving her to take care of two young children mostly alone. He helped a bit and visited a bit but it wasn't frequent or loving. She then marries another man she doesn't love and worries about love with her last breath.

Family - isn't it about time, er love?

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: November 30, 2021 11:42PM

My sister just a few days ago said to me, "I just realized that men are more important and that we will just be polygamist wives, meaning when you were dealing with leaders over marrying your gay husband, they could sacrifice you because women aren't valued." I told her I figured that out long ago. She is dealing with the leaving right now as she has decided (and her husband) after COVID that they are done.

The fallout of gay/straight marriages is HUGE. And they don't care about anyone involved.

I had a nice little experience this evening though. Someone came to my door handing out I believe R.S. manuals for the next year or SS manuals, and I gladly told her I didn't need one, that I was no longer a mormon. My son said that whenever I say that someone I have a happiness in my voice.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 01, 2021 12:41AM

The members who were pro-gay marriage until 2008, when they suddenly discovered that they had always been opposed to gay rights.

The member who makes his living by suing rich individuals and corporations in the expectation that they will settle.

The members who are persuaded by their common faith to drive that man on his various errands, including to the courthouse to enact his extortion.

The member who beats and emotionally abuses his children.

The members who by dint of their common religion testify falsely to the police and the courts in order to keep the abuser out of jail and to ensure he shares custody.

The bishop who lets that man continue to inveigh against his ex-wife and children during F&T meeting.

Ethics are those rules that remain the same regardless of what changes occur in one's environment. They are what motivate a principled person to stand against, for example, the arbitrary exercise of power regardless of personal consequences. Mormons have no ethics. They are taught that their views and conduct must accord with the whims of a dozen old men, men who are notorious for their frequent tergiversation. To be a Mormon means to have no moral core. It means to surrender one's ethical autonomy and yet want to be regarded as especially principled and honorable.

The tedious, daily, mundane, thoughtless acts of moral equivocation: those are what break my heart.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: December 01, 2021 11:46AM

That “Don’t be talkin smack against the Lord’s anointed” gag we agreed to in the temple just tuned mormoms into enablers.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: December 01, 2021 11:49AM

Haha. They should call the Endowment "The Point of No Return" and admit that the true interpretation of "Health in the navel and marrow in the bone," is "GOTCHA!"

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: December 01, 2021 05:42PM

Second Anointing = moral equivocation made sacred.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 01, 2021 05:53PM

And you only get the second anointing after having proven for decades that you are "church broke," church broke meaning that you have surrendered your soul.

Frankly, the last point at which the church teaches absolute morality is the baptismal interview at age 8. From that point onward the lesson constantly beaten into people is that their moral views must conform to the demands of church leaders. Mormonism is perfect training for totalitarianism.

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Posted by: Dr. No ( )
Date: December 01, 2021 04:04PM

An imprisonment and slavery of the mind.

Because the end product is my father who cannot independently decide whether to carry an umbrella.

Joseph Smith wanted money, sexual gratification, and so power over the lives of others. He therefore constructed a system where he, alone, was the divine source of all rules and all knowledge. Consequently, all competing sources of information, all other methods of inquiry and thought, were forbidden. Self-inquiry - turning examination inward - was also forbidden, as this leads to "why" and therefore the development of critical independent thought, and then inevitably questioning of the whole. This design has continued, whether current leadership is aware or not.

It's asinine arbitrary rules do not matter.
The point is to control.

The result is to stunt human growth.

It's "fruits" are people who:

*Are chronically fearful, as there is no development of mastery, since there is never a reliance upon the self, and the judgments of the self. Therefore there is never confidence. Such people are chronically cowed, uncertain, and fearful.

*Are judgmental. In a system devoid of self-inquiry, the only measure of "success" is how well these arbitrary rules are kept. This inevitably leads to comparison of rule-keeping against others, leading to judgement and feeling either smugly superior; or conversely inferior and envious, depending on the status of comparative rule-keeping. Pecking order becomes of supreme import. Crabs in a barrel.

*Blind hypocrisy. Arbitrary rules contravening human nature are never "keepable"; therefore there is hypocrisy, of which there is no awareness, since the capacity for self-observation has never been developed. They are truly not aware of their hypocrisy. This is why pointing it out is futile.

*Superficiality. No depth; a cardboard person. Again, no self-examination.

*Intolerance, that is the inability to tolerate (there is real fear from) a difference of being or thought. A concrete example is the act of "shunning." (This is actually because that an alternate method of successful happy living actually exists at all threatens the whole flimsy architecture of this so-called church) Most interesting, I could be profoundly racist, yet truly and honestly without lying deny it, as there is no self-examination, so I am unaware of my profound racism (or any -ism). (It's those things we are unaware of that are the most dangerous.)

*The incapacity to stand alone and apart from the herd (i.e.true integrity is never developed). The locus of authority is forever external to the self. It is a system of parent-child where the child never grows up and emancipates, never becomes independent.

So basically, as a Truly Good Mormon, you stay in the box you came in and never explore what it is to be fully human. You never develop your inherent gifts and capacities. You never get out of the package. At death the plastic wrap is still on the box.

Such people never master the bicycle, always requiring training wheels.
They never develop the full measure of what it can be to be human.

This obscenity of a "church" is a crime against humanity.

Even a human gardener wants the seed to sprout.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: December 01, 2021 04:46PM

That was excellent. No stone unturned.

Made me remember this quote:

"The greatest of faults, I should say, is to be conscious of none." Thomas Carlyle

Great insight those words, but---Ironically I first found that quote at the beginning of Miracle of Forgiveness. Spencer was even using that as a tool against his followers. Everything is useful to those types.

I like this point you made--"It's asinine arbitrary rules do not matter. The point is to control." An example is, if they can get you to fear something as harmless and even good for you as coffee, they can get you to do anything. Game over.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: December 01, 2021 04:49PM

I vehemently disagree with you.


And this.

"So basically, as a Truly Good Mormon, you stay in the box you came in and never explore what it is to be fully human."

Life finds a way even in the most repressive cultures and structures. I'm no neo-Nietzschean.

Mormonism has broken my heart but I revel in the fact that it hasn't broken my wife and children's spirits. It definitely has taken a toll like all the years of human history spilling out in our past where humans have organized to control other humans.

Kindness and love still exist in that box of yours and disagreement with "Elders."

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: December 01, 2021 05:38PM

Per Hamlet,

“This above all: To thine own self be true.”

That’ll get ya booted out of Mormonism.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 01, 2021 05:55PM

It surely will.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: December 01, 2021 06:23PM

The worst part is that the sincere believers are being used. They give their money and time for a pipe dream, allowing the rich and powerful to play them like a fiddle. The believers remain docile thinking they will be rich and powerful in the next life.

The earliest cave man grifter realized how this works and became a "holy man." It was the first lazy man grifter job on the planet, IMO. There is no accountability or need to prove anything, and people buy it.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: December 02, 2021 12:12PM

Threat of violence gets people to do things that they otherwise wouldn't for the benefit of a few. Similarly, special knowledge status, supernatural connection, and/or being adept at manipulating cultural influences gets people to do things that they otherwise wouldn't for the benefit of a few.

It happens in politics and religion.

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Posted by: jazbo ( )
Date: December 04, 2021 10:49AM

Funerals. When my 19-year old son was dying of cancer, he said he did not want the gospel preached at his funeral. Every funeral I ever attended in the crutch, did that. So we had graveside services.

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