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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 09:41AM

COVID denial is a cult.

The virus is real, it is deadly, and the risk of severe illness and death is significantly reduced by being vaccinated and following basic, common sense practices like wearing a mask, social distancing, and personal hygiene.

Or, in other words...

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** "If you play with fire, you'll get burnt." **
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60050996

A folk singer from the Czech Republic has died after deliberately catching Covid, her son has told the BBC.

Hana Horka, 57, was unvaccinated and had posted on social media that she was recovering after testing positive, but died two days later.

Her son, Jan Rek, said she got infected on purpose when he and his father had the virus, so she could get a recovery pass to access certain venues.

The Czech Republic reported a record number of cases on Wednesday.

Mr Rek and his father, who are both fully vaccinated, both caught Covid over Christmas. But he said his mother had decided not to stay away from them, preferring instead to expose herself to the virus.

"She should have isolated for a week because we tested positive. But she was with us the whole time," he said.

Proof of vaccination or recent infection from the virus is required in the Czech Republic to gain entry to many social and cultural venues, including cinemas, bars and cafes.

His mother was a member of one of the oldest Czech folk groups, Asonance. She had wanted to catch Covid so there would be fewer restrictions on her movement, Mr Rek explained.

Two days before she died, she wrote on social media that she was recovering: "Now there will be theatre, sauna, a concert".

On Sunday morning, the day she died, Ms Horka said she was feeling better and dressed to go for a walk. But then her back started hurting, so she went to lie down in her bedroom.

"In about 10 minutes it was all over," her son said. "She choked to death".

Although she was unvaccinated, Jan Rek stressed that his mother did not believe in some of the more bizarre conspiracy theories about Covid vaccines.

"Her philosophy was that she was more OK with the idea of catching Covid than getting vaccinated. Not that we would get microchipped or anything like that," he said.

There was no point in trying to discuss the issue with her as it would just get too emotional, he added. Instead, he hoped that by telling his story he could convince others to get vaccinated.

"If you have living examples from real life, it's more powerful than just graphs and numbers. You can't really sympathise with numbers."



https://praguemorning.cz/hana-horka-died-covid/

Czech Singer Hana Horká Died After Intentionally Trying to Catch Covid

She was 57 years old, singer of a Czech folk group specializing in Irish and Scottish music. She decided to catch Covid intentionally, in order to avoid the vaccine, and now is unfortunately dead.

This is the story of Hana Horkà. In recent days she wrote on her social media that she was infected with the Delta variant.

Czechia Considers Mandatory Vaccination for Health Workers and People Over 60

“I’m very happy about it because in this way I would be able to start having a “free” life like everyone else, and go back to the cinema, on vacation, to take a sauna, to the theater”.

Her son, Jan Rek said: ‘She decided to continue to live normally with us and preferred to catch the disease than to get vaccinated.’

Two days before her death, Horka took to social media to say: ‘I survived… It was intense. So now there will be the theatre, sauna, a concert… and an urgent trip to the sea,’ she added.

Horka went for a walk outside but when she returned she started to complain about back pain and soon after, died choking in her bed.

An obituary of the singer appeared on the Asonance website and the causes of her death have not been specified.

Jan accuses several experts who have long spoken out against vaccination. “You took my mother, who based all her arguments on your basis. I despise you, you are an absolute waste,” he wrote on Facebook.

‘I know exactly who influenced her… It makes me sad that she believed strangers more than her proper family,’ Rek said.

‘It wasn’t just total disinformation but also views on natural immunity and antibodies acquired through infection,’ he added.

Horká joined the band Asonance as a graduate of the Prague Conservatory. “It is becoming the main trump card of the vocal section,” the band writes on the web.

They recorded their last joint album in 2019 with the title The Return of the King.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 10:01AM

That's sad. Such talent lost.

The hospitals here are full of stories like this.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 12:13PM

"Now there will be theatre, sauna, a concert".

It's not much to ask for. I can relate to wanting "normal" back. This would haunt me if it were my mom. Her son and husband will be sad forever.

"She choked to death".

My utter nightmare.

I don't take delight in the deaths. I think there are far more who are misinformed and misguided than selfish or evil. But I continue to be dumbstruck by the choices to (1) fail to sufficiently inform oneself about the science; (2) rely more on one's own "knowledge" than on experts in the relevant fields; and (3) ignore qualified medical advice and instead choose quackery.

The myriad of details and nuances about the virus, the variants, the vaccines and preventive measures can be tricky for many to follow. But sincerity of belief does not equate to truth (as we know by our negative experiences with religion).

I can see how someone would believe that contracting the virus would be protective to the point that other measures wouldn't be necessary. However, we know from sad experience that that isn't true, and one has to survive the virus first anyway before even thinking about measures going forward. Exhibit 1 is this lady who rolled the dice and lost her life. And all the others who have done likewise.

I wince when government leaders decide that having had the virus is equal to having had the vaccine, that it's a one or the other situation and both are equally protective. That is easily misinterpreted and gives a false sense of security. We know the best chance of surviving is to avoid becoming infected. This lady chose to put her life in their hands in this regard and now she's gone too early. No theatre. No sauna. No concert. No beach. No life. And her family is left to mourn over something that didn't need to happen. She was misinformed, or misunderstood, or discounted the degree of risk.

What, I wonder, were her reasons for not wanting the vaccination. Perhaps if her questions had been answered she would have sought one out. Or at least she could have isolated herself from her husband and son, as her son mentioned, if she had had a better degree of understanding.

It's sad she died. It's sad she could have lived. Sometimes in life we don't get a second chance to make the correct decision. In this case, don't walk into a swirling mass of virulence with confidence that your system can fight off a potentially deadly infection. You're gambling with your life and possibly loved ones' lives and, if you care, even the lives of strangers. At the very least, don't spread it to others, the virus itself or misinformation about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2022 12:15PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 12:27PM

A gamble is a gamble. Knowing the odds is no guarantee of winning the game. A lot like Russian Roulette.

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Posted by: Jaxson ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 01:58PM

Or in this case, Czech-mate.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 11:46PM

apparently no one else is going to say it ... that was a good one.  I'll roast in hell with ya...

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Posted by: unknown ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 02:45AM

I agree with the ol Dog.

FANTASTIC PUN

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 10:12AM

Ha! Just saw this. Too good!

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Posted by: Salty Tears ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 02:20PM

Add Choking to death to the list of Covid symptoms.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 04:14PM

Anybody said,

"She was 57 years old, singer of a Czech folk group specializing in Irish and Scottish music. She decided to catch Covid intentionally, in order to avoid the vaccine, and now is unfortunately dead."

I'm a 74-year-old who unintentionally caught Covid and am now very much alive. OTOH, I can't sing.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 04:45PM

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anybody said,
>
> "She was 57 years old, singer of a Czech folk
> group specializing in Irish and Scottish music.
> She decided to catch Covid intentionally, in order
> to avoid the vaccine, and now is unfortunately
> dead."
>
> I'm a 74-year-old who unintentionally caught Covid
> and am now very much alive. OTOH, I can't sing.

When? Doesn't mean that you are still protected now.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 04:48PM

Anxious to see if I can get a variant test. My wife thinks it was an early Omicron case.

Edit: I might have posted this before, maybe it was deleted. I got what appeared to be a seasonal bug 2nd week of November. I usually shake these things pretty fast, but this lingered. Right before Thanksgiving, I made an appointment with the VA, and was scheduled for a test December 7, which was positive, that's all they had. At that point, my symptoms were minor and mostly gone. Middle of December, everything was gone, except for occasional larynx irritation.

Except for age, I have no other comorbidities.

No symptoms since then.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2022 04:52PM by caffiend.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 06:45PM

I could make a flippant comment, such as, "That was an experiment that didn't go well."

But I feel sorry for her son and her family. Her actions were profoundly selfish.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 07:05PM

Yes, Summer !

I told my sons that if anything ever happened to one of them, I wouldn’t jump off a bridge —but, I’d find a chair to sit in and probably never get out of it.

My son went to the ER two nights ago with back pain so extreme that he thought he had kidney stones. Nope. Covid.

If he were to die from this, my claim about the chair would be a lie.

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Posted by: oldpobot ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 07:22PM

Sorry to hear, Kathleen. Is he vaccinated?

My 91 year old mother got a positive test yesterday. She has been unwell for a few days but feeling better now. Double-vaxxed but was due for booster just before she got sick. It looks as though the third shot is fairly vital to avoid Omicron.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 08:16PM

I thought not, because he told me to not nag him about it; but SIL said yes he was vaccinated--that it was her who wouldn't get the jab.

Why so stupid? I ask. . . . Toxic Mormonism

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 07:23PM

Wow. Intense abdominal pain? I haven't heard that before.

All best wishes for your son.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 07:25PM

Thank you, LW. It was back pain, and he still has it.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 07:48PM

I'm surprised to see such pain is a common symptom of COVID. I hadn't seen that before.

https://www.healthline.com/health/back-pain-covid#why-it-happens

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 08:32PM

I had a site I was going to give a link to as it's a quick read and comprehensive overview of symptoms. I see that you've already given us the link, LW. Good one.

I didn't realize that the muscle aches and pains can be a long haul issue. Sounds miserable.

From the site you linked, re COVID symptoms:

"Body aches and pain are also among the most frequently reported symptoms. The lower back is one of the most common places people with COVID-19 report feeling pain.

"Back pain often appears in the early stages of the disease, but it can also be a long-haul symptom that persists for weeks or months after infection."


The write-up doesn't say anywhere I've seen that for some people the back pain is going to be the last thing they feel.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 09:47PM

When I think of Covid, I think of Guy de Maupassant's 1887 horror story, "Le Horla."


"All around him, he senses the presence of a being that he calls the "Horla". The torment that the Horla causes is first manifested physically: The narrator complains that he suffers from "an atrocious fever", and that he has trouble sleeping. He wakes up from nightmares with the chilling feeling that someone is watching him and "kneeling on [his] chest."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Horla

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 11:23PM

Dead cat bounce

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 11:28PM

Could have been a Covid blood clot that went to her lungs.

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 11:31PM

That is sad. It’s the same in Germany. If you haven’t been fully vaccinated or recovered, you can’t do much of anything fun. Here, in fact, you also have to be boosted or tested if you want to visit a restaurant, go to a cinema or sports arena, or use public transportation. I am fully vaccinated and boosted, but the rules are so confusing I just stay home.

I don’t think it’s smart to deliberately get COVID, though, no matter how much I might want to hit the spa. I feel sad for her family.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2022 12:19AM by knotheadusc.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 19, 2022 11:59PM

SCOTUS ruled government-edict mandates are unconstitutional.
The UK is dropping all mask and vaccine mandates.
Even Starbucks is dropping vaccine mandates.

Hopefully, some momentum will develop. The sooner the better, but I think with Spring and more people outside soaking up lots of sunshine, plus measurable herd immunity, we might be done with this once and for all.

"Two weeks to flatten the curve" seems so long ago!

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 01:11AM

And in other news, the ERs are so full because of Covid that they are using their auditorium as a treatment area. Daycares are closing because the staff is sick. Schools are preparing to go back to at home learning. What a dumbass time to be dropping ANYTHING.

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Posted by: unknown ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 01:26AM

I met up with a close family friend last night to look at her car (not starting).

She is a Nurse at a hospital close to me (In California) and is ticked off. Why? They are forcing the nurses to work EVEN IF TESTED POSITIVE as long as they are asymptomatic. You can still spread it asymptomatic! She works in baby delivery!

No Jab, No Job. Have Jab, Asymptomatic, you're good to go.

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Posted by: unknown ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 01:36AM

As a side-noet.

In California the original mask mandate came from the Governor.

Cue recall election.

The latest mask mandate starting Dec-15 to Jan-15 (now extended to Feb-15) is now from the "Department of Health services"

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 03:21AM

Susan I/S Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And in other news, the ERs are so full because of
> Covid that they are using their auditorium as a
> treatment area.


The NIH is beginning to distinguish between sick WITH Covid vs. sick BECAUSE OF Covid. (A statistical distinction I think is long overdue.) Eventually, this will work its way down to state and local facilities.


Daycares are closing because the
> staff is sick. Schools are preparing to go back
> to at home learning. What a dumbass time to be
> dropping ANYTHING.

Changing minds and tactics is not necessarily "dumbass."

With two years of experience, some people (and jurisdictions) believe mass vaccination and mitigation mandates are not the answer. Like the proverbial aircraft carrier, it will take time and heavy steering to change direction.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 05:20AM

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SCOTUS ruled government-edict mandates are
> unconstitutional.
> The UK is dropping all mask and vaccine mandates.
> Even Starbucks is dropping vaccine mandates.
>
> Hopefully, some momentum will develop. The sooner
> the better, but I think with Spring and more
> people outside soaking up lots of sunshine, plus
> measurable herd immunity, we might be done with
> this once and for all.
>
> "Two weeks to flatten the curve" seems so long
> ago!

A close family member's needed surgery was just cancelled because the hospital is too full of Covid cases. The National Guard is serving at my local hospitals because there are too many hospital workers out with Covid. And finally, my school system was shut down, or largely shut down for two weeks because too many students and staff tested positive.

And yet people still refuse to get the vaccine, or grumble loudly about mask mandates. All of my states hospitals and health systems are pleading with the public to get vaxxed and wear masks. The medical workers need the public's help. And a significant segment of the public is too selfish to give that help.

I think the unvaxxed and unmasked need to stay away from the hospitals if they get Covid, or "Covid pneumonia" as they like to call it. Stay at home and eat your horse paste.

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 02:27AM

She really was very talented. I have a lump in my throat listening to this. What a tremendous loss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtZITCvFQTo

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 03:13AM

Upthread, poster caffiend said:
>SCOTUS ruled government-edict mandates are unconstitutional.

I'll respond here where people might actually see it, rather than up in the middle of the thread, where there are already a bunch of replies intervening.


The relevant case law is Jacobson v Massachusetts, 1905, where SCOTUS ruled that state vaccine mandates are legal. It has been challenged numerous times, up through 2021, and all the challenges have failed. That case is still the law of the land.

The only technical glitch in that case is that it says state mandates are legal. It does not say that federal mandates are legal (or not) because that was not the issue in that lawsuit.

The current case before SCOTUS is not about whether a government vaccine mandate is legal. It is about whether OSHA is the correct law for issuing such a mandate. I'm sure if Congress had passed a law creating the employer mandate, SCOTUS would have no problem with it. This case is about OSHA.

Nor has SCOTUS ruled on that case yet. They issued a temporary injunction for the overall employer mandate until they rule on the case. They did not include health care workers in the injunction, so the OSHA mandate still applies to them.

SCOTUS may or may not rule that OSHA can be used to justify a broad mandate. However, they will not rule that government vaccine mandates are unconstitutional. That is not even the question before the court.


At least caffiend's statement is a grade A example of confirmation bias - seeing what one wants/hopes/expects to see, rather than what is actually there.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 03:17AM

...serving as a bad example is still service!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 03:24AM

That's right, BoJ. You'll recall that azsteve and I argued about that. He said the mandate should come through OSHA and I said it couldn't because such a mandate would exceed its remit. At least the way the injunction now is worded, Congress could grant authority to the president to authorize a blanket mandate.

I'm not sure that's good constitutional reasoning, for the 1905 case and its progeny do not require Congressional authorization, meaning that the president could issue a mandate through other means. I guess the supremes might follow suit although given the composition of the court I'm skeptical.

The other point is that healthcare mandate is based, in the supreme court's ruling, on Medicare/Medicaid funding. That may ultimately be more important than the proper ambit of OSHA authority.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 03:31AM


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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 06:44AM

The article said she caught the Delta variant, which is known to be deadly but is also becoming a freak occurrence as Omicron takes over. It seems that many jurisdictions are counting on the Omicron wave to build herd immunity against the Delta variant, so it’s a lesser of two evils kind of thing.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 03:29AM

As SCOTUS stated the Federal mandate is unconstitutional, that reasoning will probably work its way down to state supreme courts and federal circuit courts. The sooner the better.

Roberts was clearly miffed at the government's admission that using OSHA was a "work-around" other administrative and legislative methods.The allowance for healthcare worker mandates is temporary. We'll see if Gorsuch holds to this reasoning later. I'm disappointed-, sure, but hope for a better decision next time.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 12:02PM

I misstated. SCOTUS did rule on the OSHA mandate, and did say such a mandate could not be issued under OSHA. I guess I saw what I expected. :-/

Vaccination mandates were not ruled unconstitutional. SCOTUS ruled that OSHA was insufficient authorization for an inclusive mandate of all large employers.

At the rate omicron is spreading, with some luck this will all be a moot point, depending on the immunity level omicron confers.

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