My brain hurts trying to follow UT politics.
Correct me if I missed something;

UT's Mormon Legislature passes a bill banning trans athletes from competing in female sports.

Mormon Governor vetoed it because it was too bigoted even for his Mormon tastes.

UT's even more MORmON Legislature votes to override Governor's veto because they're coming up for election and UT voters hate trans kids and just want them to go away, once and for all.

Knowing it's going to end up in court, they set up a legal defense budget of $1/2 million to defend their bald faced bigotry.

Meanwhile, there are 4/75,000 trans girls in UT playing sports.

That's $125,000 per trans athlete Mormon representatives spent to keep 1/2 of .001% of (1/18750) athletes from competing against girls, God forbid!

You could build 5 decent 3br homes for $500,000, instead, Mormon representatives are using your tax dollars to defend telling trans girls, you don't exist and have no place in our society. We hate you so much we're actually going to pass a law discriminating against you based upon your gender identity, knowing we're going to get sued because it's unconstitutional, we're doing it anyways.

To hell with you all!!

Defending this hateful law is the hill we're going to die upon!

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2022/03/25/utah-lawmakers-likely/



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2022 03:21PM by schrodingerscat.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
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> we're actually going to pass a law
> discriminating against you based upon your sexual
> orientation

Sexual orientation is different from gender identity.

From GLAAD:

https://www.glaad.org/how-sexual-orientation-different-gender-identity

“We use the acronym LGBT to describe the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender community. The first three letters (LGB) refer to sexual orientation. The 'T' refers to issues of gender identity.

“Gender identity is your own, internal, personal sense of being a man or a woman (or as someone outside of that gender binary).
“Sexual orientation describes a person's enduring physical, romantic, and/or emotional attraction to another person (for example: straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual).

“Transgender people may be straight, lesbian, gay, or bisexual. For example, a person who transitions from male to female and is attracted solely to men would be typically identify as a straight woman.”


Definitions from Human Rights Campaign:

https://www.hrc.org/resources/sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity-terminology-and-definitions

Sexual orientation

“An inherent or immutable enduring emotional, romantic or sexual attraction to other people.”

Gender identity

“One's innermost concept of self as male, female, a blend of both or neither – how individuals perceive themselves and what they call themselves. One's gender identity can be the same or different from their sex assigned at birth.”

Gender expression

“External appearance of one's gender identity, usually expressed through behavior, clothing, haircut or voice, and which may or may not conform to socially defined behaviors and characteristics typically associated with being either masculine or feminine.”

Transgender

“An umbrella term for people whose gender identity and/or expression is different from cultural expectations based on the sex they were assigned at birth. Being transgender does not imply any specific sexual orientation. Therefore, transgender people may identify as straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc.”

Gender transition

“The process by which some people strive to more closely align their internal knowledge of gender with its outward appearance. Some people socially transition, whereby they might begin dressing, using names and pronouns and/or be socially recognized as another gender. Others undergo physical transitions in which they modify their bodies through medical interventions.”

Gender dysphoria

“Clinically significant distress caused when a person's assigned birth gender is not the same as the one with which they identify. According to the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), the term – which replaces Gender Identity Disorder – "is intended to better characterize the experiences of affected children, adolescents, and adults."

-----

Of note:

"Being transgender does not imply any specific sexual orientation. Therefore, transgender people may identify as straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc."

-----

American Psychological Association:

https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbtq/transgender

“According to the APA Style guide, the term “transsexual” is largely outdated, but some people identify with it; this term should be used only for an individual who specifically claims it. While the term “transsexual” appears multiple times throughout this document, APA’s Committee on Sexual Orientation and Gender Diversity is undertaking a systematic review of its use along with other terms.”

“Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity, gender expression or behavior does not conform to that typically associated with the sex to which they were assigned at birth. Gender identity refers to a person’s internal sense of being male, female or something else; gender expression refers to the way a person communicates gender identity to others through behavior, clothing, hairstyles, voice or body characteristics. “Trans” is sometimes used as shorthand for “transgender.” While transgender is generally a good term to use, not everyone whose appearance or behavior is gender-nonconforming will identify as a transgender person. The ways that transgender people are talked about in popular culture, academia and science are constantly changing, particularly as individuals’ awareness, knowledge and openness about transgender people and their experiences grow.”

“Gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same. Sexual orientation refers to an individual’s enduring physical, romantic, and/or emotional attraction to another person, whereas gender identity refers to one’s internal sense of being male, female, or something else. Transgender people may be straight, lesbian, gay, bisexual, or asexual, just as nontransgender people can be. Some recent research has shown that a change or a new exploration period in partner attraction may occur during the process of transition. However, transgender people usually remain as attached to loved ones after transition as they were before transition.”

“Transgender people usually label their sexual orientation using their gender as a reference. For example, a transgender woman, or a person who is assigned male at birth and transitions to female, who is attracted to other women would be identified as a lesbian or gay woman. Likewise, a transgender man, or a person who is assigned female at birth and transitions to male, who is attracted to other men would be identified as a gay man.”

Thanks, corrected it.
Hard to keep up with all the jargon, and 70 different gender identities.

Yes, terminology updates as knowledge and understanding, hopefully, improve.

+1000000000

Ouch!

It's the subtle things he misses.

and are constantly looking for the next bête noir to inspire fear amongst their flocks.

"That's $125,000 per trans athlete Mormon representatives spent to keep 1/2 of .001% of (1/18750) athletes from competing against girls, God forbid!"

If I were a trans athlete, I'd rather accept the money and find another hobby.

in b 4 ~ OPie promotes some staged media narrative ~

What’s the ‘staged media narrative?’ in this story?

Give me an example.

OK ~


so ~


it is like ~


any crime that is not done out of love is a hate crime ~

ziller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK ~
>
>
> so ~
>
>
> it is like ~
>
>
> any crime that is not done out of love is a hate
> crime ~

I disagree. Will Smith slapping the sh!t out of Chris Rock was a crime, not done out of love, but not a hate crime either. Had it been a white Dude slapping the sh!t out of Chris Rock, now that’d be treated as a hate crime and the white Dude would have been crucified by now.

any slap not done from a place of love is a hat crime and should be prosecuted to the fullest estent to the law of the land ~

Would that be a tin foil hat crime?

And as long as we are on the subject, I can’t quite figure out where you are going with this, but I can never quite figure out where you are going with anything. I usually don’t even try.

In the off chance that you are mocking hate crime laws, let me give my two cents. We have had laws that modified the punishment based on the attitude and motivation of the criminal for as long as we have had laws.

The difference between first degree murder, second or third degree, negligent homicide, self defense, and whatever other variations of death laws that there are, depends almost entirely on the attitude of the person who caused the death. The person who died is exactly the same amount of dead in all those cases. We decide on the appropriate punishment for causing a death based on the attitude and motivation of the person causing the death.

The complaint about hate crime laws is that they make judgments on level of punishment based on the attitude of the criminal. The claim is that that is wrong because we can’t read people’s minds. Which is nonsense. We make judgments based on people’s attitudes all the time, both informally in personal interactions, and formally in courts of law. Hell, our dogs make judgments based on our state of mind. Occasionally we judge wrongly in deciding what another person was thinking, but we, and our dogs, can actually do a pretty decent job of ferreting out another’s motivation.

So giving a hate crime enhancement to a crime because it was designed to terrorize an entire group of people is not much different from deciding whether to charge someone with first or second degree murder. We can in fact judge intent based on their actions.

Do people sometimes get inappropriately charged with the wrong level of crime? Of course. We have judges and juries and lawyers to try and see that that doesn’t happen. That it does happen sometimes is not a reason to scrap having gradations of punishment based on the motivation of the charged person.


And if you weren’t mocking hate crime designations, then “never mind”. :)

any crime done out of hate should be punished to the fullest extent of the law ~


any “crime” done out of love (or non-hate) should be forgiven ~


to punish someone for a “crime” done out love (or non-hate) is also hate or vengeance which should also be a real crime and illegal and punished to the fullest extent of the laws of the land ~


ziller’s mother was charged with the murder of ziller’s twin brother but luckily she was awuitted ~


ziller;s twin brother was hogging all the breasts milk so she did it out of love ~


thank jesus that there was no such thing as 1st / 2nd / 3rd / 4th degree murder or whatever in those days ~

What annoys me is that this cox has decided he knows more than the legislature, more than the parents of Utah kids, more than our state school board, more than ordinary girls in sports just trying to fit in with other girls, cox is god in his own mind so he vetoes the bill because of his feelings

And thus the guy who always extols the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon political systems reveals again his contempt for constitutional government and his preference for populist tyrants like Mussolini, Juan Peron, and even Adolph Hitler. For those are the modern advocates of untrammeled majoritarian rule.

The Magna Carta, Constitution, and that individual liberty stuff is for wimps and Frenchmen. But I repeat myself.

Actually, I think Cox was trying to do the right thing and save Utah from the shame of another stupid hate policy.

And enough legislators agreed with him that the veto would have stood had they voted their consciences. At first they thought the veto would be sustained. But God’s Own Party put the word out that any of God’s legislators who voted to sustain the veto would be primaried. Four of those legislators, two in the Utah house, two in the senate, were brave enough to vote their conscience anyway.

Coincidentally, there was an article today in SLTrib about the LDS Church lobbyists and what they did at the state capital this session. They were pretty low-key. They weighed in on the state liquor law changes, as per usual, but surprisingly, they did not get involved in the transgender laws.

So this fiasco is all on the GOP legislators. You can’t blame the Q15 for this mess, at least not directly.

I’m not buying that the abusive CULT running the theocratic state of Utah didn’t get involved in passage of this trans hate bill, when they run the theocracy.