The Evangelicals want (white) Christian Dominionism.

They will not stop.

They will use any means necessary.

They have sown the wind, now they will reap the whirlwind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2022 10:44AM by anybody.

Next up on the chopping block, birth control, gay or interracial marriage?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2022 11:18AM by schrodingerscat.

Breeders in Nun Habits and red cloaks?
Old maids in Brown Cloaks?
Infertile elites in blue cloaks?
Men in business suits or riot gear?

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Next up on the chopping block, birth control, gay
> or interracial marriage?

In a solo concurring opinion, Justice Clarence Thomas goes after contraception and LGTBQ rights: “[I]n future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court’s
substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell. Because any substantive due process decision is ‘demonstrably erroneous,’
[...] we have a duty to ‘correct the error’ established in those precedents,” he writes.

Alito obnoxiously pretends Thomas didn't write what Thomas wrote: "Finally, the dissent suggests that our decision calls into question Griswold, Eisenstadt,
Lawrence, and Obergefell. [...] But we have stated unequivocally that “[n]othing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that
do not concern abortion.” 

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/24/2105690/-Supreme-Court-overturns-Roe-v-Wade-ending-abortion-rights-for-millions?detail=emaildkbn&pm_source=DKRE&pm_medium=email

SC, you're right!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2022 12:46PM by blindguy.

Since top Dems like Speaker Pelosi and Steny Hoyer and Democratic Caucus Chair Hakeem Jeffries all endorse and support the likes of pro-gun & anti-abortion Henry Cuellar of Texas, what side of your civil war do they and their like fall on?


Neither side of the extreme right-wing Duopoly that runs the U.S. on behalf of the oligarchy considers you or even cares about you, and both red and blue have no problem manipulating Americans on this issue or any other issue. Continue believing in red v. blue at your peril.

Next up: Griswold - Lawrence - Obergefell

No problem, just vote bluenomatterwho even harder, that outa do the trick.

We were already on the road to civil war. This decision just speeds up the timeline.

Unfortunately, none of this is happening in a vacuum. The most recent French elections and polls for the upcoming Israeli elections show a hardening, and not a moderation, of viewpoints on all sides.

Another name for the Civil War that I was taught in school was "The War Between the States." That civil war has already begun, but it will be a Cold Civil War. Blue states have laid the groundwork to actively undermine and subvert the red-state laws, while red states are trying to find ways to impose their retrograde laws on blue states.

One interesting theory I heard being floated was establishing abortion clinics on U.S. military bases in red states. The idea is that those bases are owned and controlled by the feds, not the states, and therefore are not under state authority. IANAL, so I don't know how that would play out in the courts.

I like the idea of establishing abortion clinics on Federal land. That could also apply to Native American lands.

Next Up:

Women refused medical care after miscarriages. It's the exact same procedure. Death sentence.

Good time to not be an Alabama Ob/Gyn who has a patient with an ectopic

Give me a break. Fat and lazy Americans aren’t going to have a civil war. All this means is the Supreme Court ruled that abortion is a legislative matter and not a constitutional matter. So this throws it on the state legislatures.

What will happen is the politicians will take the safe route of banning late term abortions which most the American public are in favor of. Of course radicals are going to try and stir up the ignorant people who have no concept of how our system of government works for their own agenda.

Is abortion or contraceptives or gay marriage going to disappear? Nope. Roe vs Wade should have never had any legal standing because it’s legislating from the bench. It’s the Supreme Court doing the legislature’s job. Of course with the country being under stress the timing of this decision couldn’t be worse but maybe that’s the reason for it. Some people want the pot stirred.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What will happen is the politicians will take the
> safe route of banning late term abortions which
> most the American public are in favor of.

Are you not paying attention? Over a dozen states have already passed laws banning most abortions and some have banned them all. Your description of the situation today is fantasy.


---------------
> Of
> course radicals are going to try and stir up the
> ignorant people who have no concept of how our
> system of government works for their own agenda.

That's a strange position for one to assume who doesn't even know what has already been done.


------------------------
> Is abortion or contraceptives or gay marriage
> going to disappear? Nope. Roe vs Wade should
> have never had any legal standing because it’s
> legislating from the bench.

You act as if Roe was the key case here. It was not. The key case was explicitly Griswold, and Thomas said the court should review the whole family of rights subsumed under the Griswold "right to privacy"--which are precisely contraception and gay marriage. The only way you can say what you just did is by ignoring the words of the decision itself.

The Supreme Court ruled abortion is a legislative issue and not a constitutional issue. That’s the ruling. Simple as that. Gay marriage was decided by the federal legislature. It’s the law of the land. So now we get to see if the US Congress can pass federal abortion laws or if this becomes a state issue.

Your confidence is misplaced.


------------------
> The Supreme Court ruled abortion is a legislative
> issue and not a constitutional issue.

No, that is incorrect. The supreme court just decided that a constitutional right is no longer a constitutional right. You would have us ignore the fact that SCOTUS transformed a legislative issue into a constitutional one fifty years ago.


-------------------
> That’s the
> ruling. Simple as that.

Everything is simple if you refuse to see the complexity. You have in other posts told us that the states will not prohibit most or all abortions but that has already been done. All your protestations show is that you are unaware of the facts.


-------------------
> Gay marriage was decided
> by the federal legislature.

This is delusional. Gay marriage was established as a right by SCOTUS in October 2014, Obergefell v. Hodges. The opinion was written by that renowned conservative, Justice Kennedy.


-------------------
The basis for informed discussion is information. The former is impossible without the latter.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Give me a break. Fat and lazy Americans aren’t
> going to have a civil war.

An actual shooting war? Yes, I agree with you that isn't going to happen.

But what this ruling portends is absolutely horrifying on so many different levels. :\

I think we may be surprised at where this leads. Being a forced pregnancy extremist had no accountability in the past, because basically the issue was out of their hands.

Now it is very much in the hands of state legislatures, and they may find this potato is a good deal hotter than they imagined. The opposition suddenly has a dog in the fight. It might be a very big dog.

Politicians are the biggest cowards on the planet. They will play it safe and legislate some late term abortion laws and leave it at that. The far right who want a total ban on abortion are minority fringe who get a lot of media coverage and make a lot of noise. Freak shows sell news stories.

What is going to matter more is the economy. As prices rise and jobs disappear due to business failures that becomes the elephant in the room.

Again, some states have already banned all abortions. You keep describing as extreme and improbable things that the right has already done.

Most the power is supposed to reside in the states. Left wing people don’t like living in conservative states anyways. Let’s see how things hash out. Some of these old trigger laws might not hold.

I don't agree. I think most of the power should remain with the people. There are a lot of things the authorities shouldn't have any business bothering with.

You sound like some people in the South where I lived who to this day would be fine with slavery...because...well...states rights. You don't like it? Move away.

The point is slavery was evil and wrong. Making women property of a state is wrong. Using states to dodge this is deceitful and a lousy excuse, IMO. My Senator here in Idaho said he couldn't support voting rights because....well...states rights. WTF.

I notice that most of the people who don't seem to think this is a big deal didn't have any of their own rights taken away today I like I did. This should alarm people more than it does IMO. I'm tired of being treated like an alarmist since 2016, because it's pretty darn obvious too many people are fine with rights being taken away until it impacts them personally.

People in a democracy get the government they deserve.
Women make up the majority, why are they not in the majority in any branch of Government?
Time for the majority (women) and those who love them, to get out and vote out fascism before Red States look more like Gilead than the rest of the country.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're suggesting that people should do the Right thing, and you proceed to describe one of your "Right thing" steps.

But isn't that EXACTLY what all the political creatures in the USA believe they are already doing, The Right Thing?

And no doubt each political creature can describe the path the USA needs to pick and follow.

And what about that pesky bugger, The Rights of Minorities?

Yes I’m suggesting the half of the country that didn’t vote in 2016 because they ‘didn’t see the point’ finally see the point, that it only takes 1/4 of the country to elect a misogynist sexual predator when half the country can’t be bothered to vote.

Your assumption being that all those people who are too lazy to vote would, if they chose to go to the polls, vote exactly as you want. . .

>>Women make up the majority, why are they not in the majority in any branch of Government?

I don't know if you have noticed, but we don't seem to have been in a majority rule situation for a long time. Thanks to the electoral college, stacked state legislatures, and dark money that buys elections, we see the repeated disappointment of voting and seeing the POTUS candidate winning the popular vote lose. This directly means SCOTUS picks not supported by the popular vote. There is no way anyone can compete with the $$ buying the vote for people like McConnell. We are calling ourselves a democracy, but it has been minority rule for a while now.

Also, thanks to religion in cahoots with politicians, people are influenced at church to go along to keep the politicians in power. Christianity is very effective at convincing women to stay put and accept inequality. Women keep perpetuating the religion against their best self interests unfortunately.

Women get the raw deal with lack of childcare, which is intentional. It keeps many from resources to seek positions of power.

I am very disappointed in "democracy." Although it is the best option out there, it sucks.

The US constitution is profoundly undemocratic. The electoral college ensures that the majority of voters do NOT determine who runs the country.

I'm confident the founders of the constitution would not have allowed this to happen. They recognized political realities and accommodated them. In addition, they provided an amendment mechanism whose foundation was the realization that the system must change as society changes and, implicitly, as people relocate to new areas and population balances change.

The biggest flaw in that constitution? The amendment process is far too onerous, meaning that constitutional changes are nearly impossible. That leaves us in a situation of vulnerability both to the populist nihilists and to justices who harbor no respect for a millennium of stare decisis.

It's absurd. If right-wing justices were physicians they'd still be using leeches -- and be righteous about it.

Surely that's an exaggeration. Ron Paul only uses leeches on his patients when absolutely necessary.

Ron Paul says they're Delicious

I'm told it's his meal of choice now that he can no longer eat pangolins.

Also Ron Paul is a white supremacist a$$h01e.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2022 03:46AM by Dave the Atheist.

I totally agree.

My hope is that this signals major problems for the Republican party. Let them live with what they've made happen. I don't think that they will like the results in the long run.

I listened to Speaker Nancy Pelosi's response today. This is a woman speaking from a position of power. She knows that today could be the start of something big for the Democrats. But it will be a long fight, no question.

The GOP may have just snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

It will be interesting to watch.

Normally economics trumps everything else, especially when a country is suffering a serious bout of stagflation. But if anything could invalidate that observation, this is it.

I'm still betting the GOP gains ground in the midterms, but perhaps the Dems will hold one of the two houses. Then they'll be able to check the excesses of the Christian nationalists in the two political branches but still not in the courts. That would, however, be a lot better for the majority of Americans who are now on the Dems' side on abortion, gun control, and other major issues.

The GOP may come to rue the day SCOTUS overturned Row v. Wade.

>>The GOP may come to rue the day SCOTUS overturned Rowe v. Wade.

They are going to lose political moderates (such as myself,) who were willing to listen to them and to vote for GOP candidates. No more!

To have a civil war the military has to divide and fight each other. Today’s generals are not going to give up their pay and perks to side with some states.

These guys get sweet corporate offers after they retire. The get to sit on the board of directors of some military contracting company and they make millions. These are thank you presents for supporting the military industrial complex.

Civil war? Get real. The military is too busy getting rich gaming the system.

So you think if there was a civil war, that the states wouldn't pay their generals? I'm pretty sure Robert E Lee drew a paycheck. And had he won, he would have gotten a sweet consultant gig with the Alabama Cotton Growers Association after the war.

The generals would side with whoever gets to keep the howitzers and tanks and jets.

I seriously doubt there will be a civil war, and if there is, it will not be state against state. But not for any of the reasons you listed.

Who gets to be India to the other side's Pakistan?

I want to assume that related states will exist on the East and West Coasts, with the other sides getting the middle and bottom coast...

Will there be "neutral" territory, where 'mixed marriages' and 'blended families' can thrive?

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will there be "neutral" territory, where 'mixed
> marriages' and 'blended families' can thrive?
===============================

Best Coast -- where the beautiful people hang out

Dr. No Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
> ===============================
>
> Best Coast -- where the beautiful people hang out

Word to the wise, get out of Gilead while you still can!

Dr. No Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> elderolddog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Will there be "neutral" territory, where 'mixed
> > marriages' and 'blended families' can thrive?
> ===============================
>
> Best Coast -- where the beautiful people hang out

Word.

So everyone lives in the states they want with people they are the most happy living around but everyone still wants protection of the US military to keep the Chinese from invading us. Sounds like how the founders originally envisioned things working.

So we are seeing a decentralization of power.

We're seeing increased power to control people's lives put into the hands of the political entities that have recently shown a strong desire to move toward autocracy. This isn't how I would define "decentralization".

Looks like the Supreme Court members are the supreme leaders of this nation now.

I just checked my map app. SLC State Street is already closed from the Moss Federal Building on 100 S up to the state capitol building. Either they are expecting a march, or a spontaneous one is already happening.

So, what's the problem? The pro-choice crowd gets their own Jan 6? Isn't it about time the women get to riot?

I was kidding, ladies.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/arizona-senate-abortion-protest-hostage.amp

Hopefully this will motivate the majority (women) and those who love them, to get out and vote for women’s rights.

In a Democracy, we get the government we deserve.

“Freedom!”

We all want it for ourselves, but way too many people are willing to curtail Freedom in others, because it would be the “right” thing to do.

Eventually we’ll be able to burn witches again!

Whom do you figure for the female version of William Wallace?

I don’t know, but it would be cool if she was a Mexican-American exmo!

Who says "Chicas, it's piñata time!"

Screw pinatas, I am holding out for margarita time!

It depends on the piñata.

A look from the outside..

This is a political decision. But the main issue is that the question in its nature is a religious question, right?

Is it correct to say that American Pro-life conservatives do not care about political rights but Gods will?

Would you agree with me that there is a built in strife between secular and religious viewpoints in the Constitutional law
of the United States?

I have no deeper knowledge about there american legal system but I know that it is built on a legal tradition opposite to what I know about from my home country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_law

The civil war started January 20, 1981.