I don't see any point in trying to keep the USA united now. I've been to Andersonville. I've been to Gettysburg, Vicksburg, and Antietam. I've seen the graves. Those men died to keep the United States a free, united nation. But the divide is too great now. Religious fundamentalists just don't want to live in the 21st Century. They don't believe in "equal justice for all" or any form of equality whatsover. They won't stop until they force the rest of us to live in their (racist) "religious paradise." Lying, cheating, violence, propaganda, etc. are just tools to achieve their goal of (white) "Christian Dominionism."

It seems the only states that actually want to be in the present day "United States Of America" and not the Confederacy or the 1920s are:

West Coast (WA,OR,CA)

Southwest (NV,NM,CO)

Great Plains (NE,KS)

Midwest (MN,IL,MI)

Mid-Atlantic (NC,VA,DE,ML,PA,NJ)

Northeast (NY,RI,CT,MA,VT,NH,ME)

We'll have to make Interstate highways transit corridors and have air corridors like the old East Germany did.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2022 12:49PM by anybody.

The kicker here comes down to what states can support themselves.

I can see the blue states being a whole lot less invested in the welfare of the red states.

Susan I/S Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The kicker here comes down to what states can
> support themselves.

That's why they'll never really do it.

And why should they? By packing the court and changing the voting rules, they think they can transform the educated, productive, wealthy coastal populations into serfs.

That's the goal here: not the dismantling of the US but rather ensconcing themselves in the upper reaches of a kleptocracy.

Another reason is that despite their blustering and empty braggadocio, governors and senators from red states like Texas and Florida desperately want to be POTUS. That becomes impossible with secession. "President of Texas" doesn't have quite the same ring. Cancun Cruz would have to carpetbag to a different state.

And of course, they'd be ineligible for any federal disaster money when they get hit by hurricanes and the like (which will get worse as the planet heats up). "Too bad, Galveston! Sorry about that, Jacksonville! Maybe you can hit Kentucky or West Virginia up for those needed millions! You say they're broke, too? Bummer. Thoughts and prayers!"

All threats of secession, sadly, are a bluff.

There's also the question of national defense. A seceded, and hence impoverished, Red America would soon be conquered by Puerto Rico or perhaps the Dominican Republic.

Or rather they would try and take them like the old antebellum South wanting Cuba and Central America.

(eez joke)

Certainly the Mormons will save us

The TX GOP Platform includes seceding from the Union.
Why not sell it back to Mexico for a Peso before they secede?
Move the border to the Red River instead of the Rio Grande.
And throw in the rest of the red states for another peso!
Call it Jesusland or better yet, Gilead and Let them have all the guns.
Put a wall of drones on top of an inpenatrable concrete wall between us and them. Keep all the Redhats out and call the blue states United States of Canada!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2022 01:03PM by schrodingerscat.

How many of us would be here if our parents had access to abortions when we our Mothers were pregnant with us?

What if Jane had 50 kids instead of 5? Should she grieve the 45 that she didn't but could have had? Hell no!

What if every sperm resulted in a baby? Why aren't you lamenting about those folks?

It would have complicated the plot of Saturday's Warrior.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if every sperm resulted in a baby? Why aren't
> you lamenting about those folks?


Monty Python would like to have a word....lol!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

I would be here because I was a wanted baby. I think that babies *should* be wanted. As a teacher, I've seen the result when they're not, and it isn't pretty.

and that the fundies do not want.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would be here because I was a wanted baby. I
> think that babies *should* be wanted. As a
> teacher, I've seen the result when they're not,
> and it isn't pretty.


Amen. My mom didn’t want me, and I grew up knowing it. It was not good. If she had aborted me, I would be none the wiser.

I think she’s happy I am here now, but I’m 50 and don’t rely on her anymore.

It's the "mother didn't want me" argument.

How many women do you grieve that lost their life due to having a tubal pregnancy and had to die because removing the fetus that blew out the Fallopian tubes and created septic was illegal. I guess the woman didn’t get offered life. I bet you couldn’t care less that lives of women died in high risk pregnancies because removing a rotting fetus was against the law?

The reversal is a RIGHT TO DIE. Women need to have their own choice in what happens to their bodies. No other man or woman has any business in the matter.

Also there are many special needs children waiting for adoption. Their special needs come from alcohol and drug addiction. I don’t see the so called Christians adopting them. Guess they don’t care. Not important these children have loving homes.

And the so called Christian conservatives! Jesus didn’t collect money from his followers, keep 90% and build mansions amass money thru greed. I never read where he did that. Jesus hung around with the lower class of society, didn’t hang around with the wealthy that did his bidding. Didn’t read that in the Bible. Jesus didn’t promote getting society to attack other members of society, didn’t read that in the Bible. The list goes on. But by the title they have chosen, conservative Christians they claim to follow the life and acts of Jesus. They emulate just the opposite!

Ok off my soapbox, I feel better. I realize those who disagree will never get it and attack me. I grieve for all the women who lost their babies and then their lives due to the actions of others.

Yeah, when the Fundies say, "what if Einstein was aborted?", I usually think the same way..."What if Ted Bundy was aborted or Stalin or Hitler?"

However, if you really think about it, this is heading to an implosion. The short run, things will suck, but in the long run, this is the beginning of the end of Religious Fundies.

How and which Dogma will rule these fools when they stand shoulder to shoulder with their differences? Hell, the Inquisition fell apart, sadly after many innocent ppl died. But it enlightened many which I feel ends in the secular world.

wondering Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also there are many special needs children waiting
> for adoption. Their special needs come from
> alcohol and drug addiction. I don’t see the so
> called Christians adopting them. Guess they
> don’t care. Not important these children have
> loving homes.

------------------------------------------------------------

I would adopt if I could, but the US makes it so hard to do so. Not only is there a long process and tons of paperwork, it is also expensive just to go through the process before you even get the child.

You may see a LOT more adoptions if they made it so that those who were good (so no abusive types) and wanted to adopt, could adopt.

I have a good job, a decent place, but I'm a single mother with 3 kids already.

You know how hard it is to get through the paperwork and processes just to be able to adopt in that situation...and that's BEFORE you actually start paying a lot of money for the actual adoption portion.

The system is rigged. It's made to keep kids in foster care (I'm against that system myself, or how it is run right now) and prevent them from ever being adopted.

This isn't arguing against your point, I can see many of the POV's here, I just wanted to talk about how the system is rigged against adoption (side topic) for those who would adopt if they could because they love kids. I'd LOVE a little girl or just a girl period (I have all boys). Probably never going to happen with the current system, even if it gets overrun with new babies and kids because ofthe craziness currently going around with the SC right now.

tumwater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many of us would be here if our parents had
> access to abortions when we our Mothers were
> pregnant with us?

Interesting question, given that I have an awkward biological father.

I know that my Mom had an abortion between me and my sister (who was born six years after I was).

Mom told me that she got pregnant with a son (she KNEW it was a son) after we all moved over the mountain to the San Fernando Valley. She said there was absolutely no way that she and my Dad would have had the money at that time to raise another child (meaning: other than me), and for them, abortion was the only option.

A few years after that abortion, she got pregnant again (with my sister, who is six years younger than I am), when the financial problems of our family had, by then, mostly disappeared. (My Dad had been able to successfully become an electronics engineer.)

Where is Mitts now when we need him? He should be galloping into Washington DC on his white horse and go and save the Constitution!

What I didn't realize is that "prophesy" is a another example of causing the disease they purport to be able to cure.

They want to believe they will save the Constitution, while ignoring they are the ones who helped eff it up.

In a way we are breaking up the US, the state government is going to have more say over all these delicate issues. The founding fathers set it up this way, and for unelected justices to decree an unpopular unconstitutional Law is tyranny. It's remarkable that a group of buerocrat judges actually voted to limit their power. This is actually remarkably good news

And yes every state should be different special and unique in their laws.

>decree an unpopular unconstitutional Law is tyranny.

Reality check:
"The first is that the anti-abortion position is in the minority. There are a lot of polls on this subject, and the results vary a fair bit based on exactly what is being asked and exactly how the questions are worded. But, roughly speaking, about 85% of Americans would like abortion to be legal in some circumstances, about 60% want it to be legal in all or most cases, and about 55% identify as "pro-choice." Keeping in mind that in each of these polls, some respondents expressed no opinion, that means that people who support the old status quo outnumber people who support the new status quo roughly 2-to-1."

You no doubt don't believe the polls, just like you don't believe Neanderthals existed or that we can know past CO2 levels from examining glacial ice cores. Nevertheless reality does not depend on your belief, and the unpopularity of this decision will be the functional reality going forward.

The dog caught the car. Let's see what it does now.

Okay, I'll put it differently--although in my view this is bolder than questioning someone's rationality.

In a constitutional republic or a constitutional democracy, the individual has a civic and moral obligation to learn the basics of the system. That means reading the constitution, reading the Federalist Papers, and achieving at least a middle school level of comprehension.

Maca writes that the "founding fathers" did not "set up" an independent judiciary. In his words, "for unelected justices to decree an unpopular unconstitutional Law is tyranny."

What can we learn from that statement--other than that Maca is clueless about his compatriots' actual views? We can learn that he has never read the constitution, particularly Article Three. We can infer that he never attained the level of understanding that is ostensibly required for children to move into high school or immigrants to garner citizenship. We can learn that Maca never cared enough about his country to compensate for his appallingly poor education with self-directed research.

I will say this directly, bluntly, without equivocation: Maca is not a good American. He shirks his moral responsibility to the country and his fellow citizens to understand what the Founders did and what they expected.

I can think of few worse things to say about someone and yet we all know it is true. Some posters, including a past moderator, have opined that Maca must be a troll because what he says is so patently bizarre. But it is not bizarre; it is not "trolling." It is exactly what Maca, basking in his factual ignorance, actually believes.

And that is why the country is in trouble.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2022 08:26PM by Lot's Wife.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is exactly what Maca, basking
> in his factual ignorance, actually believes.
>
> And that is why the country is in trouble.

Agreed.

And yes, it's dangerous. Very dangerous.

Absolutely. I only wish it could be explained away as trolling..

First I thought it was an attempt at humor. I find it difficult to believe anyone can actually think that way. Then I thought it was trolling because it was so ridiculous. I made an honest attempt to reason with him. I now no longer waste my time.

It's deeply unsettling to run into people who have no intention of learning, or even thinking, and yet such people are effectively running the United States right now.

Maybe Mitt Romney could chop it up and sell off the profitable pieces to the highest bidder.

anybody Wrote:
--------------------------------------------------
United States of Canada

> West Coast (WA,OR,CA,HI,AK)
> Mid-Atlantic (NC,VA,DE,ML,PA,NJ)
> Northeast (NY,RI,CT,MA,VT,NH,ME)
+ Canada

Sorry, your Red State didn’t make the cut, but have fun in Jesusland, we’re selling you back to Mexico for a Peso, New Gilead!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2022 06:30PM by schrodingerscat.

Oops!

"Rep. Mary Miller, R-Ill., said at an Illinois Trump rally Saturday that the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade was a 'historic victory for white life.' "

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/after-victory-for-white-life-comment-gop-campaign-says-rep-misread/ar-AAYSkGQ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=0b779f6958fb4943bc2e87096ca8e87e

They aren't even quiet about it anymore.

My mother witnessed Hitler's rise to power. One thing she said made a huge impression on me -- "Don't think that it can't happen again."

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My mother witnessed Hitler's rise to power. One
> thing she said made a huge impression on me --
> "Don't think that it can't happen again."

Your mom's sentence is absolutely correct except for one word. Let's see if I can't correct it.

"Don't think that it can't happen here."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2022 11:39PM by blindguy.

Yes, she absolutely meant that, meaning that human impulses, biases, etc. do not magically disappear. A charismatic leader can rally people to believe and do evil.

Seems like the momentum is definitely on the side of White Nationalists right now.
They don’t care about being called ‘racists’ anymore. They just say, you’re a racist for making this about race. Not everything is about race!
They’re playing the long game. It took them 50yrs to win this round. It might take another 50 b4 women are not considered breed stock anymore, with zero control over their own reproductive rights.

A war analysis from someone who never fought in one. I’ve seen body parts on the ground after an attempted suicide bombing in Iraq. Americans are soft. Guys like me got deployed while the rest of you played around here isolated from what was going on. There isn’t going to be a civil war. There might be lot’s of complaining on the internet. A society of obese people don’t fight each other for real. They type stuff.

There are other vets on this site. You make a mistake when you assume you are the only one who has experienced what you describe.

As for obese people who are soft, that's a great description of President Trump. Snowflakes, all.

Didn’t OP forget UT, TX (+ any others?)?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2022 03:26AM by GNPE.

The northern Rocky Mountain states don't have a big population, so they'll probable form some kind "Aryan Nations" type of republic while IN, OH, KY, and the Southeast will proclaim themselves as the new Confederate States of America. People who don't agree will be forced to leave and flee to what's left of the USA or Canada. This is already happening now for real. Parents of LGBTQIA+ kids are being forced to flee their homes in FL and TX and other red states because of discriminatory laws.

If any of this actually happens, it will be worse than the Partition of India back in 1947 and a lot of innocent people will be killed for nothing -- all because a bunch of crazy old people want to live in the past and their leaders stoke their fears for both political and financial gain as Milosevic did in the old Yugoslavia.


And that was very, very nasty and bloody.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2022 11:20PM by anybody.

Is this politics?

Our electoral system is contributing to this phenom