"Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By "patriotism" I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people.

Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality." -- George Orwell

Where does Infantileism fit?

You know, 'If I don't get my way I'm gonna hold my breath until you turn your back, and then that's where I'm going to stab you...'

I gotz ta know!

For a Visual take-off on Orwell ( where is he now that we Really need him?), watch the movie Brazil, the one by Terry Gilliam.

The part just before, for the Fourth:

“By ‘nationalism’ I mean first of all the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be confidently labelled ‘good’ or ‘bad’. But secondly – and this is much more important – I mean the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond good and evil and recognizing no other duty than that of advancing its interests. Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged…”

—George Orwell—
—“Notes On Nationalism”—

"Love my country. Fear my government."

You do realize state government is also government too, right?

Wait until you find out you should fear corporations and religions too, for the same reasons. Any of them will take and abuse any power they can get.

How can one serve as a police officer, literally the part of the government with "a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence?"

A police officer *is* the state.

My 1970s ride was an MGB/GT. Good times--at least, most of those I can remember.

https://www.mgexp.com/registry/pictures/147334/1969_MG_MGB_GT_Riviera_Blue_Joe_Herz_000.jpg

Now you drive a POS 3 cylinder Bronco Sport. Just admit it.

I thought 3 cylinders was the domain of Metro Geos.. sheesh what a looser cruiser!

I'll be passing your way 2nd week of August, en route to Monument Valley, Moab, the west Utah/Nevada backcountry, and maybe Box Elder and Cache. I'd love to stop by and meet buy you lunch!

https://k9z5y4v3.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/IMG_1208.jpg

Is patriotism the highest value to which we ought to aspire, or are there higher values? Just something to think about.

unconventionalideas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is patriotism the highest value to which we ought
> to aspire, or are there higher values? Just
> something to think about.

Since I am a pessimist on human activity, I'll repeat the following quote which I very much believe:

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

(No, I don't remember who made the original quote, but I'm sure it wasn't Elderolddog).

unconventionalideas Wrote:
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> Is patriotism the highest value to which we ought
> to aspire, or are there higher values? Just
> something to think about.

+1