There's a story on /r-exmormon about a bishop's son who recently killed himself and the exmo redditor says it was all due to pressure to go on a mission.

My first mission companion died in an auto accident a couple of years after we returned.  I had no problem listening to his mother tell the funeral service audience that ghawd called him home because he was needed...  I was not a believer and nothing anyone said was going to bring him back, so ... whatever.

No one in the church has yet suggested that a person committing suicide "knew" he was needed in the hereafter, and rather than wait for ghawd to arrange an appropriate accident, speeded up the process.  It would take a pretty dense GA to offer that up ... so it won't be long.

Suicide-to-avoid-a-mission is a brutal reason to die; you're being killed by the actions of people who say they love you and want what's best for you, and that what they know about your needs is far superior to any of your anti-mission thoughts.  Your own thoughts are totally ignored and/or rejected.

I would suggest to mormonism that they try to err on the side of caution so as to hopefully not just reduce, but eliminate kids choosing suicide over a mission.  But you know the drill: the leaders are only doing what's best for sheep.  I've never heard of an apology being issued, in the vein of "Oops, we shouldn't have pushed him so hard!"  Naw, it's always been the victim's fault.

I'd like to see someone with the means establish a 'colony' for Morridor kids who don't want to serve missions but who are told "Serve or else!"  A place to stay, food, jobs, educational resources...  I would donate to such an effort.  Donations wouldn't need to be just money.

Talk about a shining light on a hill...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2022 10:45PM by Tevai.

I just read that thread. Very sad. One of the respondents to the thread knew the young man -- he worked on bikes with her husband. She also observed, "My parents neighborhood lost 3 boys to suicide a few years ago because they didn't want to go on a mission but felt the pressure."

I really wish someone would pass that thread along to the Q15. The Q15 have blood on their hands.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2022 01:00AM by Tevai.

The Q15 know all about those cases. They feel that such suicides, like those of our gay brothers and sisters, are necessary to the greater cause.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2022 01:01AM by Tevai.

...like the Pope not mandating turning child-molesting priests in to the authorities. He is far more interested in having the priests go through the repentance process than he is in protecting children.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2022 01:01AM by Tevai.

All that crap about leaving the 99 to care for the one, treating hookers and Samaritans like human beings, the sanctity of children is so. . . 2000 years ago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2022 01:02AM by Tevai.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All that crap about leaving the 99 to care for the
> one, treating hookers and Samaritans like human
> beings, the sanctity of children is so. . . 2000
> years ago.

This is profound.

At least, to me.

Says so much in such a little paragraph.

I wish they were more like Samaritans and less like [insert harsh ruler of choice].



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2022 01:02AM by Tevai.

Dostoevsky was prescient when he wrote the Grand Inquisitor. It really is a case of "thanks, Jesus, for setting this up. Now get out of the way since we know how to run a major organization better than you ever will."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2022 01:03AM by Tevai.

Actually, it is a lesson in how true socialist Christianity would mess up the rulers of Christianity because the organization that promotes Christianity can never be Christianity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2022 01:03AM by Tevai.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, it is a lesson in how true socialist
> Christianity would mess up the rulers of
> Christianity because the organization that
> promotes Christianity can never be Christianity.

Can you define "true socialism" please? Has it ever been achieved or has each of those experiments that killed all those millions been in vain?

You missed a word - Christian. And read The Brothers Karamazov if you really are curious. The author can explain through his narrative what he's getting at with true Christian socialism.

There's not a chance Gort will read Karamazov. He didn't even understand Orwell.

'Tis easier to ponder 1950s politics while enjoying a nice warm frankfurter.

It must be known, with the significant number of these occurrences, that the enforced mission was the, or a, reason for a young person to be driven to such drastic action.

The leaders need to change their definition of "volunteer".

There are many ways to serve and some are suited to one endeavour while others are more fit for other ways.

Why can't they promote community involvement in helping others and de-emphasize the mandatory "volunteer" mission?

People are individuals with a variety of talents, abilities and interests. Sadly, the bigwigs don't comprehend that.

I've seen vibrant young enthusiastic folks out in a mission field where there's just nobody who wants to talk to them. Two years. What a WASTE of some of "the best years" in a young life.

The leaders are culpable. Where's the "discernment" when a teenager is suffering to this extent and either nobody recognizes it or they continue to preach and nag and force and melt a person into submission. Either submission to the "best two years" mantra, or the worst option the unwilling "volunteer" could take which, tragically, is irreversible.

Cost of doing business.

Yes, sadly.

The Q15 know about suicide pandemic within the church thata why Elder Oaks gave the Suicide talk at the April 2022 general conference. The Q15 also knows about the AP article about the lds "helpline" that's why president Nelson talked about abuse is not tolerated within the church. They know about it and do hardly anything to change it. The lds church did some YouTube videos against suicide. There is even an online course against suicide from the church. But they don't take off the pressure to go on missions or to be worthy.

https://youtu.be/RPhCJaBqh74

Here is a link to a suicide prevention video from the lds church

So heartbreaking.

I wanted to go on a mission. No one pressured me to go (probably because I was a sister missionary), but the instant I entered the MTC I felt the biggest sense of dread I have ever felt. I wanted to run but I couldn't. That feeling stayed with me every day of my mission.

I can't imagine being forced to go on a mission. Missions are difficult for the dedicated missionaries who want to serve, but for the ones who don't want to go but feel forced into going, it must be horrendous.

I don't know of any other Christian church that forces teenagers to spend two years away from home and loved ones, doing anything comparable to what a Mormon missionary endures. It borders on abuse.

How many suicides will it take for LDS Inc. to stop pressuring all young men (I don't think women feel as pressured to go) to go on missions? When will they finally realize that missions aren't for everyone? When will one of the GAs give a conference talk telling parents that it's okay if their children don't go on missions? Fat chance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2022 01:04AM by Tevai.

"the instant I entered the MTC I felt the biggest sense of dread I have ever felt. I wanted to run but I couldn't. That feeling stayed with me every day of my mission."

I think that explains very well the same feeling I had. If this is so good, why do I feel like I am in a cult, in a prison colony?


Several years ago some of us on R and here tried to get an Underground Railroad for missionaries who want to get out organized. It never materialized and some people were afraid the missionaries would be exploited by scammers. I have helped some missionaries from my Mission get some outside support from exmos in Norway and when they come home early.

The big dred. Yep walking out of the chapel and into the mtc halls as well as walking past the old people and into the dressing room in the temple.

I could have chosen not to serve a mission, but I would have had to move out. It was my Mom's choice, not mine and she was going to disown me if I didn't be the missionary son she had always dreamed about.

What were here last words inside the MTC family room?

Don't get sent home unless you're dead.

>> Don't get sent home unless you're dead.

From a member of the so-called "family church."

I'm so sorry that happened to you. You deserved better. Any human being deserves better.

What summer said.

What kind of a church or organization or whatever...?

Same just a bit different. Don't expect to live with me if you come home early.

Interestingly, I was heavily pressured to go but if I didn't it would have been better than going and coming home early.

If you don't go you are never good enough. If you come home early you are damaged and put out with the trash.

Most of the bishop's sons that I knew of should have been in prison.

A bishop I knew had 3 sons and a daughter. All 4 spent at least a few months in jail.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/church-publishes-new-suicide-prevention-website?lang=eng

An organization that has over 100 billion dollars rainy day fund can do so much more for suicide prevention.

How about pay for mental health counseling? I heard there is a long waiting line to see a mental health counselor at BYU campus.

subeamnotlogedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about pay for mental health counseling? I
> heard there is a long waiting line to see a mental
> health counselor at BYU campus.

That is so sad. First, that students have to wait when their issue may be overwhelming. Second, that it's predictable that their "help" may not be the type that will actually assist them.

I was sent to a church psychologist after I told the bishop I wasn't happy in the church. (It was his suggestion that I go). I forget now what exactly I said to him - maybe something as innocuous as "I have questions" which, of course, isn't seen as anything but abnormal. They had told me before my (unfortunately terrible) baptism that "all your questions will be answered after you go to the temple". When I said that wasn't the case then *I'm* the one who needs psych help? But I followed the bishop's recommendation, actually thinking it would help. Nope.

I've related several times now through the years the complete debacle of my one and only visit with an unfriendly, impatient, unhelpful church psych. Bottom line is that immediately following our uncomfortable interlude I left his office, walked across the lawn at the stake centre and left the church. I just never showed up again and they didn't come looking for me. Bliss.

So, based on my (admittedly limited) experience with the Mormon Church's brand of psychological help/counselling, I don't have much hope that it will be all that useful to prospective or active missionaries. Because the bottom line is always going to be you're the problem and you have to buck up, measure up, pay up and shut up.

They give zero room for individuality or heaven forbid, free choice.

Much better for all if church leaders could embrace a philosophy of everybody sharing their unique talents by doing what they're best suited for, voluntarily. For many, or most, that would not be plodding through a two-year mission just marking time.

I wish the profit-guy could come up with a new spiel, such as: Dear Members: We're moving with the times. The missionary program is being updated, de-emphasized and scaled back. Henceforth we embrace freedom of choice and best use of one's individual abilities and talents. In short, you don't hafta go if you don't wanna.

Why won't that happen? I'm unclear on that. Is it something about tithing? Do they really get that many converts? (Certainly not in my little corner of North America, that I've noticed but maybe in other countries they're more welcome?)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2022 02:17PM by Nightingale.

Forgive me for indulging in American football, but I think the church is on par with a football coach who keeps calling the same play and expecting a different outcome- if you line up real tight you can run the football up the middle- Um no!

And that's what the church does, they have been calling the same plays to be orchestrated over and over. The world knows what Mormons are about, the members know what the church demands- if you look at a church handbook you know what gospel topics are going to be discussed. There are no surprises at church and nothing new is being revealed save for Rusty trying to make the church to be more mainstream Christian.

They keep pushing their missionary program because they won't consider anything else.

Good analogy - thanks!

Yes, that makes sense - they don't have anything else.

It makes for a mind-numbingly boring game.

https://www.deviantart.com/cristiaso/art/Angel-Moroni-semicolon-tattoo-742706612


There more I Google the more I find about LDS suicide. So sad and unnecessary to put so much pressure on LDS members.

1 The MTC is a hallow place. It was not spiritual but oppressive to those trying to believe the church was true, the BoM, Joe the Treasure hunter, etc. You were partnered alphabetically- Elder Hoop hated me as Elder Goop.

2 Following stupid mission rules does not equal righteousness or being successful in selling Mormonism.

3 Nobody wants to hear about your problems (could be doubts, fear, threats of your assigned companion kicking your ass- I had one make a threat that he was going to strangle me after I fell asleep- Try getting a good nights rest). Some opened up to the mission president only to be mocked and ridiculed in front of other missionaries.

4 You may not be welcomed if you are sent home or choose to come home early.

5. The world is a scary place. Used to hear a drunk beating the hell out of his wife. One night he was so out of it he broke down our door- then apologized for being in the wrong apartment. The world is full of scary shit.

Fear of Vietnam sent me

Fair enough. At least you weren't getting shot at.

My brother had (for the time) good computer programming skills which saved his butt. The Army put his skills to good use in safe places. One of his last posts was to Honolulu during the height of the war. To this day I am so grateful that he never had to serve in Vietnam. My father had passed away, and my mom was too depressed by that to take care of me. My family desperately needed my older brother to be alive and well in order to hold us together. I don't know what would have become of me without him. I either would have been placed with a relative, or into foster care. I was living with him and his future wife when I was fourteen years old. He saved me. He saved my future.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2022 06:13PM by summer.