I had Thanksgiving Dinner with my wife's family this year, and our SIL and her kids, who grew up in Idaho in a nearly all Mormon town. SIL said to her adult kids, something about me being an exMormon, so avoid the whole 'Mormon' conversation with me.
She brought up that she grew up with Mormons and went to a Mormon High School in Idaho and always felt like the missionaries were such good people.
I said, "Sure, I just think their church is one of the most racist, sexist, homophobic institutions on the planet. But people think they're so nice so they give them a pass on that part about hating gays, blacks and women."
She said, "OK." sarcastically and changed the subject.
Thankfully

I felt like I could have handled that better.

How would you respond in that situation at Thanksgiving dinner the first time meeting the inlaws extended family and your SIL starts praising missionaries and saying how nice they are?

It now seems apparent that I lack the necessary integrity to be classified as a righteous exmormon.

…must be the Lamanite in me…

I am far from righteous.
I make no claims on righteousness.
But I’m not ok with remaining silent when somebody praises the most racist doomsday CULT on the planet, that exploitated 5 generations of my family, that sponsors hate legislation against gays, that discriminates, still to this day, against their kids by denying them blessings.
All while making hundreds of billions while forcing me and my family to scrub toilets, because Arbeit Macht Frei
And Mormons are fine with all of that or they wouldn’t stand for that.

MORmON CULT is actively causing people to commit suicide in huge numbers in UT, just because they are gay.

Remaining silent when I’m well aware of personally enough child abuse by Mormons against innocent children to fill a novel, that my conscience really doesn’t allow me to remain silent when I hear people praising the abusive Doomsday CULT that exploited me and my family, not one more generation if I have anything to say about it, and I do!
saying how ‘nice’ Mormons are, when they believe in singing the praises of a serial sexual predator, triggers me.
Not sorry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2022 08:53PM by schrodingerscat.

When I *have* to deal with people, I tend to look for signs of empathy because I see it as a signal that "here's someone who will take feedback from me..."  

Of course, it's not a guarantee because feigning empathy is another tool in the old 'how can I increase my gain?' toolbox.  Assessing others is not the same as feeling empathy for others.

I would feel a lot better about these recountings of your exploits if there were any indication you were looking to *help* those not in synch with you rather than just lecturing them.  It's almost like the more important task is not the lectures but the reports you give to others that they took place.  


Yes, the old "Snap out of it!!" with a slap to the face works in the movies, but as ghawd is my witless(sic), I've never seen it work in real life...

> Of course, it's not a guarantee because feigning
> empathy is another tool in the old 'how can I
> increase my gain?' toolbox.  

I couldn't agree more, buddy. Sad, isn't it?

On a different topic, may I borrow some money?

Mormons have difficulty leaving the Superficial Lane of life, it’s not easy for anyone to chat about anything significant with them Outside the Mormon bubble.

I think all they saw was the attitude which overshadowed the words.

The old saying comes to mind: discretion is the better part of valor. Time and place also comes to mind.

So what? Say nothing? Yeah MORmONs are great. Love ‘em!?
To me, silence is complicit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2022 09:59AM by schrodingerscat.

False dichotomy. Silence and self-righteous hostility are not the only two choices.

I’m not trying to be hostile, just speak my truth.
And not do the ‘polite’ thing that people do and ignore the elephant in the room, don’t talk politics or religion.
I didn’t bring up religion. My SIL did.
She obviously wanted to start up a conversation about how nice Mormons are.
I agree, I know some nice Mormons. My widowed Moms MORmON neighbor is the nicest guy I ever met. Will bring her paper every morning with a nice note on it to her wishing her a lovely morning. Same with my ExMo Atheist neighbor. Great guy, would literally give you the shirt off his back.
That probably would have been a better response than bringing up hateful things at a holiday.
The only problem I have with that is people keeping sweet is what enables the abuse to continue while everybody is speaking/hearing/seeing NO EVIL!
That’s exactly how evil thrives in an environment of denial of reality and the abuse just gets swept under the rug and perpetuated, not just the sexual abuse, but people being defrauded, by lies, many generations, to the tune of over 100billion in the bank.
As if that wasn’t bad enough, people are dying because of hate speech MORmON leaders are speaking, telling Mormons to pick up their muskets in defense of their gay hate. And Mormons are starting to take their Dear Leader literally.
I’m really not ok with remaining silent about what I know about this abusive Doomsday CULT.
Doomsday narratives don’t end well for ‘others’.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2022 09:12PM by schrodingerscat.

You said it well. Needed to be said. Doing this may well prompt some digging and help the relatives to discover reality in Mormonism. What they do then is up to them.

> Needed to be said.

Now evident is the reason gymnastics competitions' use of multiple judges in scoring individual events.

But of course it doesn't stop the bickering.


More drama: What is the role of
°kindness° in these situations?

Are you suggesting someone didn't stick the landing?

If you're cute enough, I'll give you 'one hop' with no deduction.

Still trying, aren't you.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More drama: What is the role of
> °kindness° in these situations?

“Kindness” seems to me, is speaking up for the victims of religious abuse who have been silenced.

I suppose it might have been better to say, “l was once one of those missionaries and I know they seem nice, but there’s a lot they are hiding, in the interest of getting you roped into paying 10% of your income to a filthy rich CULT posing as a legitimate religion.”

>> I suppose it might have been better to say, “l was once one of those missionaries and I know they seem nice, but there’s a lot they are hiding, <<

Agreed and that is where it would be best to stop.


>> in the interest of getting you roped into paying 10% of your income to a filthy rich CULT posing as a legitimate religion.” <<

Adding this doesn't help, but then you just can't help yourself, can you?

...that you may have made an assumption that, under the circumstances, may not be true.

What you said at the top was that your SIL and her family, though non-Mormon, were raised in a mostly Mormon town in Idaho. then you made the following comment in response to your SIL's praising some Mormon Missionaries:

"I said, "Sure, I just think their church is one of the most racist, sexist, homophobic institutions on the planet. But people think they're so nice so they give them a pass on that part about hating gays, blacks and women.""

It is most likely that given where they were from, regardless of whether or not they joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, your SIL and her family most probably side with the Mormon and other churches when it comes to not supporting the civil rights of gays, blacks, and women. Growing up means recognizing that some things, even if they are true, are better not said at the Thanksgiving dinner table, if you still wish to keep good relations with your family.

Rxactly.

blindguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
your
> SIL and her family most probably side with the
> Mormon and other churches when it comes to not
> supporting the civil rights of gays, blacks, and
> women. Growing up means recognizing that some
> things, even if they are true, are better not said
> at the Thanksgiving dinner table, if you still
> wish to keep good relations with your family.

Actually, they’re all very well educated liberal people, and they came from Moscow, ID, which is apparently a liberal stronghold College Town that some White Supremacist is trying to take over to create a whites only ethnostate. They hate this guy and want him to STFU and go away, but, free country, right?
But True, if in doubt, cut it out.
Akhems razor right?

Aah! The Mormon missionaries are probably considered genteel, compared to that white minister.

And, if I recall my population information correctly, Moscow, Idaho, isn't exactly a mostly Mormon town, meaning that your relatives probably have absolutely no idea of what your former religion is all about.

If I had had to respond to your SIL's remarks at the Thanksgiving table, I might have said something to the effectof "it's probably a good idea to keep your wallet locked and out of sight when you're around them."

I guess compared to real white supremacists taking over Moscow, Mormons look like Social Justice Warriors.

https://youtu.be/bDk8w-LNxHk

Not to mention exactly.

You make me laugh, kentish.

You need smaller fingers or a bigger keyboard. But still, I always enjoy your contributions.

I can't post from my newest phone, for sure. Way too small. My thumbs can't move fast enough anyway. Born in the wrong decade.

Either that, Nightingale, or I need to realize that I do not need to rush my response for fear of not being heard in the conversation.

I thought Rxactly was just kentish going full James Joyce, conflating exact and prescription into a single word. It didn’t even occur to me that r is right next to e on the keyboard.

My favorite Joyce word - sinduced

Why didn't I think of that as an excuse.

Sometimes a gentler approach is more effective. You can say, "Yes, but there is a dark underbelly to the faith that they seldom let outsiders see."

You could try asking your SIL how many of those Mormon kids were good friends of hers (instead of just saying a quick "hi" in the hallway.) My bet is none. I only had one Mormon friend in high school, and she was a convert who later left the church.

Well, not the exact same..but I had a member ask why I left. I was like..some things where upsetting to me, but I'm unwilling to discuss them. I'd rather use my energy in other ways!

When someone starts in about how nice Mormons are I respond, “To quote Stephen Sondheim, ‘Nice is different than good’, and Mormons are among the nicest people you’ll ever meet.”
That usually suffices.

Nothing good ever comes out of these conversations during the holidays. The best scenario is don't engage or better yet, don't attend.