https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pope-francis-homosexuality-not-a-crime_n_63d13643e4b01e928867acb6

Catholic God remains silent on whether or not Bishops routinely raping altar boys is gay and therefore a sin or not, so until Catholic God makes up His mind about child rape being gay or not, the Pope will just keep enabling rapists by protecting them from being held accountable or suffering any consequences whatsoever!

Meanwhile the crazy Catholic League guy has been busy complaining about Pete Buttigieg's marriage.

https://www.catholicleague.org/does-buttigieg-really-have-a-husband/

I have zero respect for anything Catholic. They have done immeasurable harm in numerous ways which outweighs any good they have done.

No one is making someone marry someone of their own gender, Catholics. Mind your own business and sit down.

Says the man who wears a dress.

Well a business suit would look a little silly with the red silk slippers and that hat. What's a Pope to do?

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Catholic God remains silent on whether or not
> Bishops routinely raping altar boys is gay and
> therefore a sin or not, so until Catholic God
> makes up His mind about child rape being gay or
> not, the Pope will just keep enabling rapists by
> protecting them from being held accountable or
> suffering any consequences whatsoever!

The article you link doesn't relate to "child rape" or whether rape is "gay".

I think you are conflating two different things or else your comments are just confusing to me.

Potentially offensive also as the crime of rape, and being "gay", are not interconnected.



From ywca site:

https://www.ywcamissoula.org/2000/01/facts-about-men-rape/


Excerpts:

"Unfortunately, many people do not realize that men, as well as women, may be sexually assaulted. Many people also wrongly believe that only gay men get raped, and that assaults against men are committed by gay men. Such misconceptions about rape may affect the way males rape survivors are treated, both by peers and professionals."

"Men get raped by other men. Men can also be raped by women."

"Male rapists who rape men are heterosexual in 98% of the cases."

"Both gay men and heterosexual men get raped."

"Men from all parts of society are raped (not just in prisons)."

"Men are less likely to report rape."

"Sexual assault has nothing to do with someone’s present or future sexual orientation. Sexual assault is a crime of violence and power, not of lust or passion."

"Sexual abuse is a crime of violence... Male victims experience the same reactions to the crime as female victims do. Some of these reactions include self-blame, fear, anger, relationship problems, questions about sexuality, addictions and trust issues. Not everyone will experience all of these reactions, nor will they experience them to the same extent."

"Myth: Males are only abused by homosexual men. The majority of sexual offenders are heterosexual males."

"Myth: Males assaulted by another male are, or become, homosexuals. Sexual abuse is not an act of sex, passion or desire; it is a crime of violence."



(NB: I note the above article is dated 2000 but I believe the statements are still accurate).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2023 01:35PM by Nightingale.

Accuracy has never been El Gato's goal. Generating outrage is his goal.

The point I was trying to make is that the Pope considers homosexuality to be a sin, but is silent about the child rape plaguing his abusive institution.

Yes, I understand. It's just that the way it's written it could sound like being gay is the reason for committing rape. I wanted to point out that (common) fallacy.

Eg:

"...whether or not Bishops routinely raping altar boys is gay..."

"...until Catholic God makes up His mind about child rape being gay or not..."

Even though I was presented with your definitive statement that the Pope "...is silent about the child rape plaguing his abusive institution," I went ahead and asked Google for their take on this issue.

Here's the first response.  I'd add other responses, but I'm busy writing poetry...


"Pope Francis says he has taken it on himself to rid the Catholic Church of sexual abuse, telling CNN’s partner channel CNN Portugal that he was “responsible that it doesn’t happen anymore.”

"In an exclusive, wide-ranging interview in Rome last month, the Pontiff said the church had “zero tolerance” for abuse and said that “a priest cannot remain a priest if he is an abuser.”

"The church’s response to sex abuse scandals has become one of the defining themes of Francis’ time as Pope, and he told CNN Portugal that every case of abuse within the church “hurts” him.

"Multiple reports detailing decades of sexual abuse, systemic failures and cover-ups across multiple countries have been released since Francis became the leader of the world’s 1.2 billion Catholics in 2013. While he was criticized for some of his actions – such as when he defended a Chilean bishop accused of covering up a sex scandal in 2018, a decision he later described as a “grave error” – he has since taken a firm stance on the issues and introduced some reforms.

"In 2019, he abolished Vatican secrecy rules for cases of sexual abuse and put in place new rules that made it mandatory for the first time for all dioceses to set up systems for reporting abuse and cover-ups.

"Two years later, he issued the most extensive revision to Catholic Church law in four decades, insisting that bishops take action against clerics who abuse minors and vulnerable adults. The rules also demanded action against priests who commit fraud or attempt to ordain women.

"Addressing the topic, Francis said he didn’t believe celibacy played a role in causing the abuse.

“I don’t deny the abuse. Even if it was only one [case], it is monstrous. Because you, priest, you, nun, have to take that boy, that girl to God and with this you destroy their lives. It’s monstrous. It is destroying lives. And then they come to you with questions. Could it be that celibacy [is to blame]? It’s not about celibacy,” he said.

“This is one thing about abuse, it is a destructive thing, humanly diabolical,” he said. “In families there is no celibacy and all that and, sometimes, it happens. So, it is simply the monstrosity of a man or woman of the church who is psychologically ill or evil and uses their position for their personal satisfaction,” he added."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/04/europe/pope-francis-interview-ukraine-abuse-intl/index.html#:~:text=Addressing%20the%20topic%2C%20Francis%20said,this%20you%20destroy%20their%20lives.


I think BoJ nailed it, and I'm not just saying that because he owes me a lunch, and I don't want to give him an excuse for getting out of it...

Wow. A lot of people owe you lunches.

Now, back to the subject of this thread. . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyIbzN4X6hE

Yet pedophiles are still being given cover, because his words are hollow lies, and as a result, kids are still being raped in this totally f’d up religion that forces people to pretend they are celibate and get laid in private, by whatever means necessary, which often results in taking liberties with the softest target, little boys who look up to them and want to emulate them,
It’s all delusional but there’s a certain number of people, men and women, who’d have sex with (rape) a child in order to satisfy their perfectly natural desire, which is repressed, because they are forced to pretend to be celibate, when they are raping altar boys, still.

But can we at least be clear that none of the people committing the foul deeds you speak of got any kind of permission from Pope Francis to do so; much less received any counseling or instruction that what they were doing was okay with him?

Look at how much naughty bits of business are still going on in the church of our youth, despite your efforts to get them to take stock of the error of their ways!

Not all of these poor schmucks are as...okay, not perfect, but how about nuanced?  Yeah, they don't gotz none of your many nuances!

> Not all of these poor schmucks are as...okay, not
> perfect, but how about nuanced?  Yeah, they
> don't gotz none of your many nuances!

Yes.

But grammatically speaking, is that a problem of paradox or sarcasm?

And I don't mean that ironically.

What's unfortunate about calling it out as a sin is that other people aren't specifically pointed at for their acts that the church also considers to be sinful.

Everybody's a sinner, according to scripture, so why point at one specific person or group for their "sin" as if it's worse than another's, because sin is sin, by definition, is it not?

Everybody's sinning all over the place, every second of every hour of every day throughout entire lives, according to leaders' interpretations of their holy book.

So pretty much it's all business as usual. No need to single out a specific person or group as being more egregiously sinful than any other.

We may all be surprised at who we wake up next to in Hell. :)

If I were the Pope, I would focus on leaders and members who are committing crimes and leave the judging sin part to the Almighty.

Of course, I can't be Pope because I am a lesser life form, being only a lowly female.

When our son returned from combat in Afghanistan in the early days of the war, I asked why was he wearing a wedding ring. He served with the Northern Alliance which was a group of Afghan tribesmen who were of course devout Muslims. Our son said he had to get a wedding ring because with Muslim men (at least in Afghanistan) considered young boys or young men pleasure boys and were abused sexually. If one wore a ring it was assumed that person was married and not material for pleasuring in the battle field. Our son was only 21 with blonde hair and physically fit serving with special forces so he was a constant target of their advances. Apparently this abuse is considered acceptable in some interpretation of Islam.

I suppose it was the downfall of some segments of early Greek societies, wherein inter-generational homosexuality was the norm; one wonders if Spartan soldiers introduced their boy toys to the elder statesmen soldiers to whom they'd be boy toys...

People find all kinds of ways to make the world go 'round.  And they usually think there was is best.

Sin and guilt are the bread and butter of the Catholic church. Church authorities want you to feel badly about yourself, and to resolve that in the confessional. There is an old joke in Catholic circles, "Father, I sinned seven times this week. I took my birth control pill every day." When you fail to differentiate between genuine sins (i.e. murder, rape, theft, etc.) and made-up sins (homosexual behavior between consenting adults, use of birth control, etc.) then people may fail to take you seriously as a moral authority.

To me, the biggest sin is Francis's failure to insist that civil authorities (the police, CPS, etc.) be contacted when a priest or other religious sexually abuses a child. He mistakenly feels that particular sin can be resolved in the confessional. I hope that at some point he comes to fully comprehend his failure, which is a massive failure of moral leadership.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sin and guilt are the bread and butter of the
> Catholic church. Church authorities want you to
> feel badly about yourself, and to resolve that in
> the confessional.

Mormonism works exactly the same way, as you know. Guilt is the foundation of church power.


----------------
> There is an old joke in Catholic
> circles, "Father, I sinned seven times this week.
> I took my birth control pill every day." When you
> fail to differentiate between genuine sins (i.e.
> murder, rape, theft, etc.) and made-up sins
> (homosexual behavior between consenting adults,
> use of birth control, etc.) . . .

Again, Mormons cringe at curse words, bare shoulders, R-rated movies, and coffee even as their religion results in the suicide of adolescents, the destruction of families, and a deference to authority that allows government to torture untried foreigners. The contradiction between false morality and real morality could not be starker.


---------------------
>. . . then people may fail
> to take you seriously as a moral authority.

Well, one can hope. But it's been going on for centuries and for millennia, respectively.


---------------
> To me, the biggest sin is Francis's failure to
> insist that civil authorities (the police, CPS,
> etc.) be contacted when a priest or other
> religious sexually abuses a child.

Yep.


----------------
> He mistakenly
> feels that particular sin can be resolved in the
> confessional.

Or he feels the power of the church is more important than the protection of the victims. Put differently, I think you are giving him the benefit of a doubt that he does not deserve.


----------------------
> I hope that at some point he comes
> to fully comprehend his failure, which is a
> massive failure of moral leadership.

It depends on what he views as the higher moral imperative. I am not as generous as you.

The pope needs to ask nature.....cuz nature is god right?

I doubt the Pope thinks Nature and God are synonymous.
But I do.

having sex with other men. Just saying it?

I'll let the "husband" know that he is a sinner. I made sure I sinned, too, so I could be on the same level.

I was reading the thread about the therapist who got ex'd for her views on masturbation. The whole thread I was thinking, it is because they are obsessed with sex and it was very apparent to me when dealing with the leaders back when I found out he is gay. They acted as though they were envious of gays as they could have all the sex they wanted and they wanted gays to be as miserable as they were.

Nightingale, today is an important day on the Scottish calendar. Hope you have big plans.

  Wanting/needing to be all up in your Scottish business, but having no clue as to what you might be referring to, I asked of Google, which giveth liberally, and etc., and found listed for today, 25 January, the following:


1759:  The birth of Robert Burns.

1784:  The death in Edinburgh of
           Alexander Webster, a writer
           and church minister who is
           best remembered for the      
           country's first census.

1817:  The Scotsman newspaper
           publishes its first edition
           in Edinburgh.

2012:  First Minister Alex Salmond
           launches a consultation on
           the SNP Government's proposals
           for a referendum on Scottish
           independence, which they hope
           to hold in the autumn of 2014.


  I figured that of all these momentous occasions, you were most likely to be referring to the birth of wee Robbie Burns.

  I have decided to honor this day by sharing my favorite Robbie Burns poem:


            To a Mountain Daisy

    (On Turning One Down with the
    plow, in April, 1786)

Wee, modest, crimson-tippèd flow'r,
Thou's met me in an evil hour;
For I maun crush amang the stoure
Thy slender stem:
To spare thee now is past my pow'r,
Thou bonie gem.

Alas! it's no thy neibor sweet,
The bonie lark, companion meet,
Bending thee 'mang the dewy weet
Wi' spreck'd breast,
When upward-springing, blythe, to greet
The purpling east.

Cauld blew the bitter-biting north
Upon thy early, humble birth;
Yet cheerfully thou glinted forth
Amid the storm,
Scarce rear'd above the parent-earth
Thy tender form.

The flaunting flowers our gardens yield
High shelt'ring woods an' wa's maun shield:
But thou, beneath the random bield
O' clod or stane,
Adorns the histie stibble-field
Unseen, alane.

There, in thy scanty mantle clad,
Thy snawie-bosom sun-ward spread,
Thou lifts thy unassuming head
In humble guise;
But now the share uptears thy bed,
And low thou lies!

Such is the fate of artless maid,
Sweet flow'ret of the rural shade!
By love's simplicity betray'd
And guileless trust;
Till she, like thee, all soil'd, is laid
Low i' the dust.

Such is the fate of simple bard,
On life's rough ocean luckless starr'd!
Unskilful he to note the card
Of prudent lore,
Till billows rage and gales blow hard,
And whelm him o'er!

Such fate to suffering Worth is giv'n,
Who long with wants and woes has striv'n,
By human pride or cunning driv'n
To mis'ry's brink;
Till, wrench'd of ev'ry stay but Heav'n,
He ruin'd sink!

Ev'n thou who mourn'st the Daisy's fate,
That fate is thine—no distant date;
Stern Ruin's ploughshare drives elate,
Full on thy bloom,
Till crush'd beneath the furrow's weight
Shall be thy doom.





  If I'm wrong, and you were referring to the publication of the first Scottish newspaper, don't tell me!

You aren't wrong. Kentish is a man of culture, even of ribald culture--even of ribald Scottish culture (sic).

Robbie rulz.

Tonight is Burns night. Hopefully Nightingale is not responding because she is out on the town.

Rabbie!

Here's Kenneth McKellar singing my mum's favourite: My Love is Like a Red Red Rose:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Z8f42fF8M

I may have posted this every year, please excuse. :)

Hope you had a wee dram yourelf, Kentish man.

Plenty of YT vids of pipes and such for the celebration last nighty. Stirring stuff even for this dyed in the wool Englishman. Scotland for ever!




But England for a wee bit longer.

Yes indeed, kentish.

I don't know which I'd vote for to be the last one standing. I was born in one but yearn for the other. Divided loyalties. But attached to both.

And yes, the pipes. Any excuse.

The Catholic church as well as the LDS church is being held accountable for its lack of professional standards. Rose colored glasses do not make evil go away but it's amazing what hefty settlements can do.

There is no excuse for the abuse you suffered.

Bottom line is less of western society believe in biblical teachings. Thus you have conflict between the traditional ways of thinking and the new ways of thinking. It causes conflict and makes society weak. The west looks like a wet noodle now. It’s become a joke.

Guy, did you just try to blame LGBTQ acceptance for "weakening society?" If yes, *you're* the joke, Rube.

Rubicon is all over the map when it comes to freedom and authority.

In a recent thread he complained that the US has become a fascist state and then said he wanted to move to a better country: Singapore. When I noted that Singapore was much more "fascist" than the US, with press censorship, an enforced prohibition against spitting, and routine executions of dissidents, he ordered me not to confront him with facts and then added that Singapore is the sort of place he wants to live. In other words, it isn't fascism that bothers him but the policies adopted by fascists.

The question of gay rights may well play into it. Lesbianism has always been legal in Singapore but until a few days ago male homosexuality was banned. Does Singapore still appeal to the authoritarian as a residence? Probably, since it remains a repressive place and the state has just now reiterated its adamantine opposition to gay marriage. On balance, therefore, it's probably still the right kind of authoritarianism.

My guess, though, is that Rubicon will stay right here in the US. He likes complaining about government and society too much to put himself at risk by moving to a truly authoritarian state.

Popes need to stop pontificating.