In an interview with five other guys in the interview, none of whom I knew, at all.

I sat there stunned, not knowing how to respond to that question. Before I could think of an answer he said,”Reason I ask is, it’s fine if you are atheist or whatever, I don’t care, it’s just that, we have hired people in the past who complained about hearing the word, God, in the workplace. And we hope that wouldn’t be a problem for you.”
I said,”Every dollar bill Ive ever seen said, In God We Trust, on it, so I don’t know how you could see that every day on every dollar and get offended by seeing a dollar every day. You’d spend more time being offended than making money. Did they take their pay in US dollars?”
He said they did,”I said, well they can’t be too offended by the word hearing the word, God, or they’d take their pay in Canadian Loonies!” They all laughed and gave me the job, thank God (Particle)!
I needed it.
The only problem was it was a lot more religious than any company I every worked for before. I probably should have explained that I believed God was a word we used to describe mother nature.

Inappropriate question, but it was also a test in being able to handle an unexpected situation with tact, and you passed.

"How are you with God?"

"How are you with labor law?"

Exactly. Religious discrimination in the workplace is a crime. Asking any religious question in a job interview is evidence of religious discrimination.

https://www.hrlaws.com/interviewing-job-applicants

So the issue isn't "how well you handled it".

The issue is the crime.

Eric3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Exactly. Religious discrimination in the workplace
> is a crime. Asking any religious question in a job
> interview is evidence of religious
> discrimination.
>
> https://www.hrlaws.com/interviewing-job-applicants
>
>
> So the issue isn't "how well you handled it".
>
> The issue is the crime.

I thought it was totally inappropriate, but I needed the job. I didn't think it was illegal, since they probably asked everybody that question. I figure if it's still legal for the Boy Scouts of America to discriminate against atheists and pantheists, by denying them admission into their organization, how is it illegal for employers to do the same?

The only thing in the link you sent me about it is,

Avoid questions or comments about an applicant's race, national origin, age, religion, military status, gender, marital status, physical attributes, or sexual orientation.

He didn't care what my religion was, he cared how I felt about God, because he's also a minister and has his kids and kids of his friends, working for him and I'd be in a position where his kids would be my interns, who would probably bring up God from time to time. IOW, I wouldn’t be allowed to go around taking God’s (or Jesus’s) name in vain.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2023 06:47PM by schrodingerscat.

"I thought it was totally inappropriate, but I needed the job"


Sure, I get that.


"I didn't think it was illegal, since they probably asked everybody that question."


Every time they ask it, it's illegal.

"I figure if it's still legal for the Boy Scouts of America to discriminate against atheists and pantheists, by denying them admission into their organization, how is it illegal for employers to do the same?"

Because the laws for employment are not the same thing as the laws for membership.

"He didn't care what my religion was, he cared how I felt about God"

That's already crossing the line. It doesn't have to be a formal religion. Asking how the candidate feels about God is asking about religious belief.

"because he's also a minister and has his kids and kids of his friends, working for him and I'd be in a position where his kids would be my interns, who would probably bring up God from time to time."

He can ask if you're comfortable with a small family business where employees mention God. That's not asking what YOU believe, just whether you're OK around believers.

But that's not what he asked.

There is a reason for strong laws prohibiting employment discrimination.

So what I should have told him to take his patriarchal white supremacist God and shove it?

I needed the job or I might have.

Seems like employers are often VERY religious. Most people I know would have called the church a CULT, but I wouldn’t. It’s a church that really works and pays huge dividends by promoting their youth into successful businesses and they’re on a real track to successfully navigate adulthood.

Eric3 brings up the point of what employers can and cannot legally ask. The problem is, as SC has pointed out, in the interview situation, the interviewee is really on the losing end of the stick. Unless you have the wherewithal to get a lawyer and sue the company that asked you the illegal question, it really doesn't matter if the question you were asked was legal or not.

As a totally blind person, I know this to be all too true. Physically, when you see me walking, you can see,even if I am wearing dark glasses, that I have a problem. I am carrying a white stick in my hand and moving it from left to right and back in front of me again and again as I walk. And, even if I had a guide dog, that would be of no help in hiding my disability from my potential employer. And, because they know I am blind when they first see me (there is some debate within the blindness community about whether one should alert potential employers to one's disability and when one should do that prior to the interview), the employer's obvious first thought, whether it is legal or not, is "How the hell is he going to do this job."

What this means in practice is that blind people, myself included, have learned ways to notify employers of how we could do the job, even if they don't ask. And if they don't ask, you are still very unlikely to be hired.

What I am saying is that, at least for me and others like myself, preparing answers to illegal questions can go a long way towards making employers really consider you for the positions they've advertised.

Good point. I would do the same. They need to know how the job will get done, and how to make accommodations. Your openness makes it easier for them and gives them some idea about how well you communicate together.

I made a joke about asking them not to judge me by where I went to college in an interview. "My parents made me go there," I said jokingly. This could have backfired depending on the views of the interviewers. If they were that uncomfortable about me joking about BYU, then I probably wouldn't want to work there. You can't be too chatty though about such topics or you might not come across as very professional.

It can be a sticky situation when you volunteer information they aren't supposed to ask. The God thing gets uncomfortable fast. It's a red flag for me. Interviews go both ways.

Regarding the blind and visually impaired, the best way for them/us to find employment will in most cases involve going to your state's Department of Vocational Rehabilitation. This is because these departments (usually) have people working full-time whose job it is to work with employers to create positions for blind/visually impaired people to work. Usually it is hard to get promoted out of the positions you're placed in under these programs, but the rate at which you will find employment going through them is much greater than you trying to find work on your own.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did they take their pay in US dollars?”
> He said they did,”I said, well they can’t be
> too offended by the word hearing the word, God, or
> they’d take their pay in Canadian Loonies!”

Actually, God is on some of our money too.

All of Canada’s coins have a picture of Queen Elizabeth on the front and are inscribed with the Latin abbreviation “D.G. Regina or “Dei Gratia Regina,” which means ‘Queen by God’s Grace.'

Our nickel has a beaver on the back, the quarter has a moose (or a caribou, often mistaken for a moose).

The toonie in my pocket has a polar bear on the back and the Queen on the front.

My loonie has the Queen on the front and the common loon on the back.

Queen Elizabeth is on the front and the back of our green $20.00 bill but no mention of God.

A former Prime Minister, William Lyon MacKenzie King (PM for 22 years - 1921 to 1926, 1926 to 1930, and 1935 to 1948), is on the front of the reddish $50.00 bill. He’s on the back too, as is the centre block of Parliament (Ottawa) and a picture of the Coast Guard Amundsen research vessel as well as a maple leaf. Again, no God.

Another PM, Robert Borden, our 8th, was PM during WWI. He’s on the front of our brown $100.00 bill. The back commemorates the discovery of insulin (by Banting and Best, Canadian scientists).

There are holograms on all the notes to make them more difficult to counterfeit.

The images that appear on the money change from time to time so the age of one’s coins or currency determine which ones you'll see.

True enough 'God' is written in Latin on our coins so maybe anyone allergic to the English rendering can handle the Canadian version ('Dei').

To avoid Dei if it was that big a deal to you, you'd have to be content with bills. However, don't forget as Americans you'd be taking a 20-30% cut in pay depending on that pesky little exchange rate between our dollars, which applies to both coins and bills, of course. I just sent my American niece a little $$$ for her birthday and yow, the exchange rate is eye-watering. The gift seems OK in Canada but el cheapo in the US by the time it gets cut down.

Hopefully, most people will overlook the God thing, if they must, in order to utilize the coin of the realm, in whichever form and design it comes.

I know you were just joking SC but if anybody mentions Canada I go a bit wild and take the chance to talk about it.


(Edited to add a few extra details which are really not all that crucial but it's fun to talk about Canada once in a blue moon).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2023 07:17PM by Nightingale.

Thank you for this beautiful explanation, Nightingale!

For different reasons (a film shoot, etc.) I've been to Canada several times in my life, and I've never before known ANY of this.

Thank you!!

:)

You're most welcome, Tevai. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Interesting that you've visited Canada. I hope it was a great adventure for you. If you ever come to B.C. I sure would love to meet you. I'll bring one of each colour bill. :)

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're most welcome, Tevai. I'm glad you enjoyed
> it.
>
> Interesting that you've visited Canada. I hope it
> was a great adventure for you. If you ever come to
> B.C. I sure would love to meet you. I'll bring one
> of each colour bill. :)

Yes, I would very much like to meet you too!

My few trips to Canada were to southern B.C., and to Ottawa, and all of them were prompted by whatever it was that I was working on at that moment. (Could have been books, or other writing assignments such as p.r. profiles for magazines, or could have been connected to on-location filming of some kind or another, such as script co-writing when my husband was active in the industry.)

I am no longer writing for publication (nor am I working for any entertainment industry entity), so it doesn't seem like trips to Canada will reasonably appear anywhere in my future.

But if such an assignment WERE to unexpectedly "arrive," you can bet I will let you know right away! :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2023 08:10PM by Tevai.

Tevai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But if such an assignment WERE to unexpectedly
> "arrive," you can bet I will let you know right
> away! :)

It's a deal!

I should come too! Imagine the stereotypical jokes we could have if you, Tevai and I walk into a bar...

Interview Question: How are you with God? (Surely not a legitimate question if it's meant literally).


schrodingerscat Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
> I sat there stunned, not knowing how to respond to
> that question. Before I could think of an answer
> he said,”Reason I ask is, it’s fine if you are
> atheist or whatever, I don’t care, it’s just
> that, we have hired people in the past who
> complained about hearing the word, God, in the
> workplace. And we hope that wouldn’t be a
> problem for you.”

I'm not really sure how to take his comment. Hearing the word 'God' is different from a workplace being religious. If a prospective employee is religious they may not be thrilled to hear the word used irreverently at work. On the other hand, if a person is not religious they may not mind the word being used as an expletive or exclamation but they may not be a fan of overt religiousness at work, if that's what he meant.

Seems like a no-win situation for an interviewee because how can you be sure which way to respond to that bare-naked question (leading question, no follow up explanation before a response is expected, always nerve-wracking in an interview).

Whenever I've been asked that question: "How are you with God?" it's in the context of an Evangelical person or pastor uttering it, meaning "how is your relationship with God?" referring to the "personal relationship" that EVs believe in and preach about. It includes asking for forgiveness and praying regularly, attending meetings. And stuff like that.

I used to feel really embarrassed when the more fundamentalist types of my acquaintance would ask me that, which I thought was exceedingly personal and it made me very uncomfortable.

I think if you're not brought up to be on the fundy side it's more difficult to get so deep into the god-speak like that.

I would never have interpreted that employer's question to mean "Do you have a problem with hearing God's name taken in vain?"

And, from your description of the workplace, that is very likely what he *did* mean.

But it's not clear and certainly wouldn't be that obvious to non-EV folks. You'd think.

"IN GOD WE TRUST"... such an eloquent phrase. It drifts off the tongue. I doubt it would sound better if it were true.


HH =)

LOL.

Well, they trust in using "God" to make money. I'll grant them that. It seems to work pretty well. ;-)

Canadian here. Saw some childhood friend post “In God We Trust” and asked why she was rehashing something from US money. She tried to argue that it did not come from there. Realized no sense arguing with someone like that.

"In God we trust.
All others must pay cash."
--Bobby Bare, "Rosalie's Good Eats Cafe,"

(I don't know who actually wrote it; Mr. Bare usually sang other peoples' material.)

Shel Silverstein, I believe

It's a beautiful poem.

Silverstein was a remarkable man. He simultaneously wrote adult poetry like this and some of the most empathetic and moving poetry for children ever penned.

A truly wonderful man.

No Idea.

- how 'bout you ask "God."

I had one workplace where the boss often held prayer circles. While he stressed that praying was not mandatory for staff, the practice did feel exclusionary to me. It's one thing if some staff members want to organize something, but when the boss organizes it, it doesn't feel right.

Yeah, they did that daily at lunch time. The President of the company was a former atheist, now minister of the church they all belonged to. When the pandemic hit, they continued having big meetings with all 100 staff members and I was the only one wearing a mask. They all thought the whole pandemic was just a conspiracy to shut down churches and business. My wife was pissed about it and called DOH to report them, which is about the time I got replaced by people in Eastern Europe who could do my remote job overnight, even more remotely.

Is this the guy who took you to Hawaii? The dream job?

It was a dream job up until the pandemic hit and they all turned into anti-masker science deniers who insisted on continuing to hold super spreader events once a week. My wife turned them in to the Health Dept and at that point they fired me because I was the only one who wore a mask to the required super spreader event.
He was a Jesus freak living on Big beach in Maui in the 60’s. He decided he’d seen too much sin and moved back home and started two companies and a church, with a school. All have succeeded and grown amazingly well. And he still goes back to Big Beach and takes 300 of his closest friends and family twice a year.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had one workplace where the boss often held
> prayer circles. While he stressed that praying was
> not mandatory for staff, the practice did feel
> exclusionary to me. It's one thing if some staff
> members want to organize something, but when the
> boss organizes it, it doesn't feel right.


Wow. Even when I worked for the Church we weren't allowed to hold any group prayers. I guess if you wanted to bow your head and quickly bless your food then that was okay. But we didn't hold anything like an opening and closing prayer for the workday.

"I haven't done a complete inventory. Was there a god you specifically had in mind?"

"Thank you for asking. I would be gratified if you were to ban the killing and consumption of cows, the bringers of life. And the leather. Yes, no leather."

"Do you have a prayer room with a marker on the floor that indicates the exact great circle direction to Mecca? That would be very thoughtful of you."

schrodingerscat, I am a Human Resources professional and even I have been put in these situations being the employment law expert.

I interviewed with a big company where one of the managers looked at my resume (BYU, Utah State U. Mission) and said, "so other than school and work, why else did you live in Utah?"

I got a job offer, however, I turned it down. It was a sign to me of bad things to come. I don't regret this decision even after 20 years has past.

Almost ten years ago, I had another interview with a smaller company. The HR Director was great and wanted to hire me, but I still had to go through the CEO. The CEO's first question was "what do you know about our business". I did my research and repeated what I had learned from their website and other sources. The CEO cut me off and chewed me out. He said how dare you act as if you know our business. I didn't know what the hell to say. I thought he was trying to stress me out. But that was not his motive. After sparing with this guy question after question and he was sooooo rude to me, I finally broke down and told him a story. The story was briefly summarized as my coming out of the mormon faith journey. Once he caught on which religion it was, without me saying the name of it, he said to me, "you are mormon". I told him you are in violation of title 7 of the civil rights act and the hell that would come down on you in publicity and fines would rock your company win or lose in court. This is what I do best, cleaning up these messes and preventing them from happening.

I got up and walked out of the building.

Interesting, as in the UK there's no mention of God on banknotes, but every coin has Defender of the Faith on it.

I am good with god. It's his followers that I could do without.


HH =)

'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.' Gandhi

It depends. If I am your first workplace fatality, maybe God was out to get me.

How is God with me?
That is the question-

God Who?