Three children are dead after a shooting at a private Christian school in Nashville ...
===================================================================




— The New York Times (@nytimes) March 27, 2023

A shooting at a private Christian grade school in Nashville wounded several people Monday, but their conditions were not immediately known, authorities said. The suspect is dead after a confrontation with police.


https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/27/us/nashville-shooting-covenant-school.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

And three adults. No wounded. Female shooter dead.

A woman?

Wow. That's unusual. . . and disturbing.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A woman?
>
> Wow. That's unusual. . . and disturbing.

Apparently young, perhaps teen.

CORRECTION: 28 yrs old - not a teen. She must have looked very young to the first responders as the initial reports indicated she may have been just a teen.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2023 02:13PM by Nightingale.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11907711/Multiple-injured-private-Nashville-Christian-school.html

Female shooter, 28, armed with two assault rifles and pistol kills at least six in Nashville school massacre: Three children and three adults are gunned down at private Christian elementary before police took out shooter

anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...before
> police took out shooter

Reportedly, it was less than 15 minutes from call to end result for shooter. They're saying that two officers ran towards the gunfire on an upper level and encountered and dealt with the threat.

An eternity for students and teachers no doubt but a rapid response that highly likely saved many.

Shooter was reportedly a former student.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2023 03:17PM by Nightingale.

I do too.

But ultimately that's not the right question to ask. There is no excuse for killing three adults--let alone three children--including having been sexually abused.

The fundamental problem is the availability of guns. Everything else is secondary and runs the risk of focusing attention on the wrong factors.

See post below. That's what I meant.

Not trying to excuse the shooter's conduct, just trying to figure out a motive.

Female mass killers are rare, thus trying to guess why.


So many of these insular religious groups have sex abuse problems. This was a middle school, so perhaps something happened fifteen or twenty years ago that made the shooter go off the rails.


I've seen militia types, fundies, etc walking around the grocery store or local pharmacy with AR-15's on their backs or a brace of pistols on their belts. I just laugh at them. I can only imagine what "terrors" they think are coming to get them.

America has more guns per capita than any other nation on Earth, and unfortunately, some will fall into the wrong hands.

Why won't they do anything?

Because they are God's anointed, they were given the "rod of iron" to rule over their "promised" land. They don't care how many innocent people get killed.



Their need their "pacifiers" in their hands or their fantasy world will come crashing down. They are just scared infantile maniacs who just can't deal with women and other people who don't look like them having an equal say in the running of the world.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2023 05:48PM by anybody.

anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've seen militia types, fundies, etc walking
> around the grocery store or local pharmacy with
> AR-15's on their backs or a brace of pistols on
> their belts.

This would be a shocking sight here in Canada. First because AR-15s are not legal. Second because well, you just don't see it.


> Because they are God's anointed

Too bad they aren't more familiar with scriptures such as these:

John 15:12: My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

Luke 6:31: Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Corinthians 16:14: Do everything in love.

-----

Re the issue of actual mental illness, that's a different issue, although can at some times be related.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2023 06:21PM by Nightingale.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A woman?
>
> Wow. That's unusual. . . and disturbing.

A transgender man (F2M) I believe.

Yes, I was speaking from an early report and got the details wrong.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I was speaking from an early report and got
> the details wrong.

Yeah, sorry, me too I think. And when I heard the 'trans' descriptor later on I wasn't sure of the noun so I kept saying woman because that's what they were reporting and everybody was saying how unusual it is to have a female shooter.

But if she identified as female then woman is the correct descriptor at this point.

Same here. The shooter now appears to be female to male. I can understand why early reports were confused.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Same here. The shooter now appears to be female to
> male. I can understand why early reports were
> confused.

I'm getting mixed up. Why were they saying it was a woman? "A 28-yr-old woman" was referred to on the news for most of the day yesterday.

I haven't been able to keep up much today at all. Work is expecting me to, uh, work. I'll have a catch-up later and all will be clear, hopefully.

I did see the line of kids exiting the building yesterday, all holding hands. Heartbreaking.

> Why were they saying it was a woman? "A 28-yr-old woman" was referred to on the news for most of the day yesterday

Is Tennessee one of the states that mandates that only the gender listed on birth certificates can be used?

I got the sense that the murderer had just begun the transition and hence wasn't yet known as a trans man by her neighbors and community.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2023 05:37PM by anybody.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_Presbyterian_Church

In 1983 the Reformed Presbyterian Church, Evangelical Synod (RPCES) merged with Presbyterian Church in America (PCA). Since then, a group of churches in the PCA's Georgia Presbytery has objected to the way the merged denomination made its decisions. Therefore, these churches separated from the PCA and formed the Presbytery of the Covenant.[6]

In 1985 this presbytery grew and split into four presbyteries, thus organizing the assembly of the Reformed Presbyterian Church in the United States. In 1990, the denomination changed its name to the Reformed Presbyterian Church in the Americas.

In 1991 the four presbyteries of this denomination came into conflict. One of these was Hanover Presbytery, which became a separate denomination, the Reformed Presbyterian Church - Hanover Presbytery.[7][8][9][10][11]

Meanwhile, Westminster Presbytery and Geneva Presbytery formed the Reformed Presbyterian Church General Assembly (RPCGA), leaving the fourth presbytery as a remnant of the Reformed Presbyterian Church in the United States.[6]

In 2006, a group of churches, under the leadership of Pastor James MacDonald, split from RPCGA and formed the Covenant Presbyterian Church (CPCC). Among the main causes for the formality of the denomination is the tolerance of its churches with the practice of necessity, as well as for not in which pastors had a theological training.[5][2][3][4]

The CPC has grown since 2022 and has established itself in a total of 13 churches.[1]

Doctrine

The CPC, like other Presbyterian denominations, subscribes to the Westminster Confession of Faith, Westminster Larger Catechism and Westminster Shorter Catechism. In addition, it teaches Young Earth Creationism[12] and allows their churches to practice paedocommunion.[3]

The denomination is conservative in its doctrines and practices. Therefore, it opposes same-sex marriage and abortion.[13]

I wish the second amendment would be greatly revised & gun rights limited, perhaps as they are in Canada.

As things are, we all now live in fear.

Psychosis often first manifests in a person's late 20s when it occurs. In America, the psychos run free. The job of dealing with mental pathologies is left to the police.

Sometimes psychos get stopped before they kill someone, sometimes not. I'm not sure I like kids being entered in the Loony Lottery.

ban shootings ~

Why? Haven't you told us many times that we should not fear death because it leads back to God?

Does it not follow that the death of innocent children should be celebrated?

From the most recent press conference, the assailant shot her way through the outside doors. Not much you can do about that. She was a former student at the school. CBS News is reporting that she was transgender. Reports are that she chose the school for its relatively low security.

Three nine year olds died. The adults were all in the age 60-61 range, and included a custodian and a substitute teacher.

Speaking as a teacher, there was a very high adult to student ratio in the building for a private school (40-50 staff members for 209 students.) I also like how they led the students out by having them hold hands in a line. That was an excellent choice to help contain panic.

I think that law enforcement did the very best they could under the circumstances.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2023 05:34PM by summer.

> I think that law enforcement did the very best
> they could under the circumstances.

The circumstances must change.

No argument from me. I listen to a conservatively-oriented radio show on my commute home (that particular radio station is known for superior traffic reports.) One commentator was suggesting that teachers be armed. *sigh* If I wanted to be a police officer, I would have signed up to be a police officer. No, I will not carry a gun at school.

Given that in some cases the police scurry from the armed intruder like cockroaches from light, the notion that untrained teachers can somehow protect their charges is ridiculous.

It's an especially bad idea for teachers to be armed in an urban environment. You don't ever want the possibility of a student grabbing for a gun. And honestly, teachers have enough going on with trying to supervise and teach an entire class.

Yes. And can you imagine what would happen if a teacher actually had to use a weapon and accidentally shot the wrong person?

there’s a certain demented psyche that ‘thinks’ that a shoot-out with another armed individual is ‘fair game’ ala the old west.

In order to be the least bit effective, an armed teacher would need (1) a weapon, (2), readily accessible ammunition, (3) bullet-proof clothing, (4) body cams for legal protection, and (5) about ten billion dollars to pay for all the lawsuits and out-of-court settlements for impersonating a police officer. Please wake up, America.

. . . and 6) years of police and military training.

Indeed.

They certainly did better than the police in Uvalde, Texas, when a similar event occurred last year.

It will not change. There is no will to change.

I am a local elected officer in the D party; please read my previous posts here.

Until more elected officials agree with you we are stuck with the ever popular thoughts and prayers. I’m exhausted at this point.

Oh, there's an overwhelming desire for change. It's just blocked by a vocal minority, their money, and the Roberts Court. But those obstacles will erode as the country's demographic profile changes.

I just wish it would happen during your lifetime or mine, which may be asking too much.

kentish Wrote:
----------------------
> It will not change.
> There is no will to
> change.

...There is no will to change if you're a politician seeking to be elected or be re-elected...

The answer likes in America's racial and social polarization.

The best way for me to describe this is to go look up an old 1950's movie called "Simba."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hfNG0o6k4s

It's about British colonists and the Mau Mau in Kenya.

Now translate that fear to insular Whites who can't deal with life in a multiracial, multi-cultural America and who think they are being "taken over."

They need guns, guns, and more GUNS!
It's the end of the world!
Armageddon is coming!

This is attributable to the polarization of society that is dragging us where a few of a select minority want (us) to go, anarchy disguised as Freedom.

It’s also due to truly oppressed people being targets for others’ hatred & resentment.

Freedom is partly allowing others to be & do the things <you> intensely dislike such as

Being x religion

Being y gender attraction

Being Z ethnicity

If there was a will to change politicians would be falling all over themselves to do the will of the people. Cue the hand wringing, the thoughts and prayers, until it moves out of consciousness with the news cycle... until the next time.

And you know ... the percent of school children shot down in classrooms, or on any part of the campus, is likely to be very small.

Google says there were 53,900,000 children in public schools in 2019, and then goes on to say that "only" 175 children have died in school shootings since Columbine High School, up to the present... the present, meaning including the three most recent victims.

So the pure math, the percent of students who died in school shooting from Columbine to 2019 was .000295%.

Then look at school buses!!  Google says in the 11-year period, 2010 - 2020, 1,080 people died in school bus accidents.  Okay, only 67 were school bus passengers (+54 bus drivers), but still, school buses!!


Here is an article by the NYTimes from December 2022.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html

Obviously, the sobering statistics are neither popular nor persuasive in terms of trying to stem the proliferation of guns, which way too many people seem reluctant to do, except to pass laws that restrict some people's right to bear arms.

Bad guy:  Give me your money
               or I'll shoot you!

Victim:   I'm guessing that
              the teardrop at the
              corner of eye means
              you're a convicted
              felon?

Bad guy:  Yeah?  So what!

Victim:   It isn't legal for
              you to possess a
              firearm, that's what!

Bad guy:  Oh...  Sorry, sorry,
               I didn't know!  Here,
               take it, but I'm not
               going to wait around
               for the cops.  Have
               a nice day...

The fact that the shooter was trans and a graduate of that very religious school is telling. A peek into the horrible things we do to each other beyond shooting? We will never know. Voices silenced.

As long as we have ancient books that tell us there is one way to be and only one way, many are going to feel like they are cornered.

The Bible may as well be a gun. Why isn't there a background check for religion?

> As long as we have ancient books that tell us
> there is one way to be and only one way, many are
> going to feel like they are cornered.

Nicely stated.

But guns still need to be tightly controlled. It's the convergence of mental instability, whatever its cause, and sophisticated weaponry that results in mass murder.

Now that people are printing guns and have ghost guns I fear the old bumper sticker to be true---When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.



Is there any hope at all? I keep looking.

I am afraid that the impetus for killing is just as hard to control as the means to kill.

Anyway those are my completely useless thoughts as I wonder how the shooter got to this desperate point.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now that people are printing guns and have ghost
> guns I fear. . .

For me, that captures it all. The rest of the sentence is just details.


----------
> I am afraid that the impetus for killing is just
> as hard to control as the means to kill.

Agreed. But every repressive country has such impetus and it doesn't result in mass murder unless combined with firearms. Ultimately both factors need to be addressed, but only one is an immediate public health crisis as opposed to a personal one.


------------------
> Anyway those are my completely useless thoughts
> as I wonder how the shooter got to this desperate
> point.

I reiterate what I said to "anybody" above. Motive should not detain us right now. We need to focus on the sine qua non of mass murder, that which transforms individual rage into the deaths of children.

As for your thoughts and their utility, you know exactly how much I value your views particularly as we work our way through this emotional morass.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fact that the shooter was trans and a graduate
> of that very religious school is telling.

Yes, I thought this too. I hope that people won't focus on the trans part and attribute the shooting to that factor alone, or at all if not relevant.

Because being trans hasn't to date featured large in any impetus to commit mass murder, that I'm aware of.

Here are a few points about it from two articles about mass shootings I pulled up:

2018 Baltimore Sun Article re a shooter who was transitioning to male:

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-fe-female-shooters-trans-men-aberdeen-20180920-story.html

“The FBI’s published data doesn’t quantify crimes committed by trans people. But according to experts, it’s exceedingly uncommon for a transgender person to be the perpetrator of an active shooting.”

“While testosterone taken as a part of a hormone treatment plan could lead to violent urges, Dugan stated that it was important to “keep in mind that thousands of transgender males take testosterone and do not mass murder anyone.”

“Gun violence disproportionately affects urban African-American communities, but mass shootings are often committed by white men, Dugan said. It seems to be, although not exclusively, a crime of the privileged, “where there’s some sort of gripe or mental illness or access to weapons,” she added.”


BMJ:

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/higher-rates-of-mass-shootings-in-us-states-with-more-relaxed-gun-control-laws/

“US states with more relaxed gun control laws and higher rates of gun ownership have higher rates of mass shootings, reveals a time trends analysis, published today in The BMJ.”

“Previous research suggests that more relaxed (‘permissive’) state laws and greater numbers of gun owners are linked to higher rates of gun deaths by murder and suicide.”


In a study:

“Levels of gun ownership were also significantly associated with mass shooting rates.”

“After taking account of key factors, a 10 unit increase in state gun law permissiveness, as defined by the scale, was associated with an 11.5% higher rate of mass shootings.”

“Our analyses show that US state gun laws have become more permissive in recent decades, and that a growing divide in rates of mass shootings appears to be emerging between restrictive and permissive states.”

-----

I haven't heard it said that mass shootings are perpetrated by "the privileged". That seems counterintuitive, like privileged folks should, by definition, be more content?

I hope people don't focus on the shooter's trans identity as any reason to be even more intolerant in that regard. We don't hate or harangue white males in general due to the stats showing the preponderance of mass shooters are white males.

It's hard to imagine that something that occurred years ago at this school that today's shooter attended was a primary cause for her actions but with the mix of religion as well as sexual identity and reportedly mental health issues there may be a lot that went into that mix, leading to today's events.

One parent I saw interviewed who was on vacation in the area said this is the second school shooting incident that she and her child have been involved in.

I'm also wondering about the stats indicating that the more weapons there are available the more mass shootings occur. This type of event is rare in Canada. We have strict gun laws and assault weapons and many others are banned. According to this finding though, that mass shootings increase if more weapons are available, then if there were more weapons here the number of shootings would increase. Does that necessarily follow? I mean, isn't there some other influence at play that is causing this particular type of incident and especially at schools?

If you are raging against society, or whatever the impetus is for such a horrific act, surely harming innocent little children should be far down on the list of things you'd feel compelled to do.

I was watching the regimental funeral for the 2 Edmonton police officers who were murdered 10 days ago by a 16 year old psycho (who also shot his mother) when news of the school shooting flashed on the screen. I have no words to express my grief.

Are any of you old enough to remember the school nuclear bomb drills?

I often wonder what type of mental anguish active shooter drills cause the children.

If I had a magic wand, I’d turn every firearm into a musket or flintlock or whatever folks were toting in the 18th century. Then I’d make them all members of the national guard and send them somewhere without matches.

I remember those drills. They were creepy. How was hiding under a desk supposed to save anything from a nuclear blast? Flying debris would be the least of the problems.

I'm with you on turning every firearm into a musket or flintlock. That's what the Second Amendment was protecting. I can't imagine the founders envisioned it would be extended to semi automatic weapons. I can't imagine they would shrug every time kids are shot down and say, "Welp, we gotta protect our Second Amendment!"

I am so disgusted that the NRA, military complex, dark money, etc. have been allowed to buy an entire political party. If only the victims were fetuses, maybe they would care.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If only the victims were
> fetuses, maybe they would care.

Isn't that the saddest thing to have to say.

I asked how hiding under my desk was supposed to work. Never got an answer. It would have helped in a tornado but nuclear blast, nope.

But those drills never filled me with fear since I really didn’t believe the Russians would bomb us. I was optimistic in my youth.

> I was optimistic in my youth.

I'm laughing right now. That's a great sentence!

Never went through nuclear bomb drills, but I have gone through school shooter drills as a kid. I do remember thinking that both would be more effective if they encourage flexibility; "put your head between your knees and kiss your butt goodbye."

And I agree that there should be a few more rules in place for firearm ownership in America. "If thoughts and prayers were stallions and mares, we'd all go broke buying oats."

Yes, I remember those drills in elementary school. We were told to hide under our desks. I was never entirely sure why we were asked to do that.

We have lots of different drills now -- fire drills, hurricane/tornado drills, active shooter drills, etc.

    
    

They did everything right.
Although the embedded video advises caution, I don't think you'll get upset--the finale is pixilated.

Edit: forgot to attach the link.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2023/03/28/the-nashville-police-body-cam-video-will-make-you-proud-of-cops-n1682324



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2023 01:44AM by caffiend.

That’s not the point at. all.

Although Beth is right that your comment is off-topic, I agree that the police response was phenomenal. As we know, that is not and will not always be the case.

Nor is better policing to kill mass murderers after they have started slaughtering children the answer to the problem.

To put the point more concisely, I looked around on your PJMedia website and found what its analysts thought the message of the Nashville tragedy was. It was not that guns needed to be controlled but, in the columnist's words, that

"Good people with guns stop bad people with guns."

While that proposition may be welcome news to the seventh person in line, his six predecessors might well disagree.