This is really happening.

Religious fundamentalists are behind this, and they (falsely) claim that "God" is telling them to do it.

This is persecution, plain and simple.

I personally know two families who had to literally pack up theIr car and flee in the dead of night so their children would not be taken from them.

This is like Jews in 1930s Germany desperately trying to find American sponsors who would put up the cash they needed for a visa to escape the Nuremberg Laws.

But this isn't history.

This is happening right here, right now.

If this doesn't scare you, I don't know what will.



https://exhibitions.ushmm.org/americans-and-the-holocaust/what-did-refugees-need-to-obtain-a-us-visa-in-the-1930s


https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/03/texas-parents-transgender-kids-raising-money-online-move-state/


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ill-do-anything-to-keep-my-family-together-trans-kids-parents-are-draining-their-savings-to-flee-conservative-states-11655918377


Heather wants to escape Alabama. Urgently.

The 48-year-old music teacher first moved with her two children to rural Marion County, located in the northwestern part of the state right on the Mississippi border, from Lancaster, Pa., last August. She was in the midst of a divorce, and her parents said she could live in the home where she was raised because they were getting a new place about 10 minutes down the road.

Heather planned to send her kids, one of whom is transgender, to a just-opened charter school in the Birmingham area that marketed itself as an “LGBTQ-affirming learning environment.” It seemed like a fresh start.

But by April, Republican Gov. Kay Ivey signed into law a bill that outlawed providing gender-affirming medical care for transgender children like Heather’s 15-year-old son, Robert, who takes testosterone.

Heather’s best friend told her it was time to leave Alabama entirely. Yet that would be far easier said than done: Similar rhetoric against transgender children was cropping up in deeply conservative states across the country, and developmentally appropriate gender-affirming care — which can include puberty blockers and hormone therapy — was likened to child abuse in Texas. Even lawmakers in states with more moderate Republican governors, like Ohio, mulled legislation that could require pelvic exams on child student-athletes to make sure transgender girls can’t play on female sports teams.

To get out of Alabama, Heather will have to navigate an expensive cross-country move under concerns of a looming recession, a tight housing market, and the worst inflation in four decades. She’ll have to exhaust her savings and tap into a Go Fund Me she felt guilty creating in the first place, joining the legion of trans adults and parents of trans children who have similarly asked for money to move out of conservative states. She’ll likely have to purchase a modest home, since her budget for property in the Chicago area is about $200,000, even though the median home price there in April was $325,000. And she’ll have to leave the family members she had hoped to be closer to — all for the kind of safety that “everyone deserves."

Look, I feel bad for her and her family, but if she can afford to purchase a "modest" $200K home, what's with the Go Fund Me? This may be an unpopular position to take, but a person who has that kind of housing budget doesn't strike me as someone in dire financial straits.

But yes, she should get out of Alabama ASAP and leave it to the banjo players.

Many single or divorced school teachers might have a difficult time coming up with relocation expenses. For many teachers, their pay covers monthly bills, but not much beyond that, especially in the south. My guess is that she's earning somewhere in the $30K+ range in rural Alabama, perhaps even less.

However, the good news is that she is a music teacher in a job market where her skills are in demand. She could get hired anywhere. And this is what will continue to happen. Teachers who feel unsafe and unsupported for both themselves and their families will seek options elsewhere.

Washington State is always looking for teachers.

Found this site, gives you an idea what salaries are around the state.

http://data.kitsapsun.com/projects/wa-school/

Yes, many Washington state school districts pay very well, indeed. Washington state is developing a good reputation among teachers.

Something else to keep in mind....

Cost of housing in the Seattle area is $900,000. Property tax on that house is about $7,000/year. Gas is $5/gallon.

However, there is no income tax, sales tax on non-food is pushing 10%.

Of course higher income means higher federal income taxes.

No matter where you're at, there are trade offs you need to weigh to determine if you should move or stay.

Yes, teachers are aware of housing costs and take that into account when considering jobs.

"gender-affirming medical care"

When is medical science going to provide species-affirming medical care for kids who identity as non-human?

Just think of the possibilities in sports of transitioning to a chimp.

So you still haven't found anyone to do the surgery for you then Bradley?

HH =)

If under-age kids can make such important and life-impactful types of decisions then...
- Under-age kids should be able to 'decide' to go fight and die for their country.
- Under-age kids should be able to 'decide' to go and support their families by taking on full-time jobs and eschewing school.

It's a slippery slope we are on...

You're the one using a Slippery Slope fallacy.

And, let me guess, you think the acceptable age for people to transition or identify as anything other than straight is the same age people can leave Mormonism for any reason, never.

Parents 'must' protect their minor children from any-all possible harms;

Christo-facist parents are waving their flags in the name of protecting their children from perceived indoctrination- 'grooming' those appealing for support are alarming them.

Pretending those individuals don't exist or have rights to select, support - elect those who agree with them isn't a useful path.

See?

Here, as in the other thread, you preach that parents should defer to the right-wing nuts who want to "protect" children from "perceived indoctrination-'grooming'" by liberals and trans people who "alarm them."

How dare trans people rock the boat by demanding the right to exist?

Trans ADULTS should have the right to exist. Trans KIDS...should get the mental health care they need until they are old enough to make such an important decision like changing their gender..

nonmo_1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trans ADULTS should have the right to exist. Trans
> KIDS...should get the mental health care they need
> until they are old enough to make such an
> important decision like changing their gender..

You sound like a right-wing extremist who thinks abortion should be illegal but refuse to pay a penny to ensure that the babies consequently born have enough food to survive.

Prove me wrong. Are you willing to use public funds to give kids the psychological treatment that they need?

for hate.

They were to impose their so-called "biblical" sex and
gender roles.

They also don't want to live in a world where you can't "tell."


No trans kids = no trans adults who can pass = an easily identifiable group they can demonize and mark for discrimination.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2023 06:40PM by anybody.

That was my point.

> Pretending those individuals don't exist or have
> rights to select, support - elect those who agree
> with them isn't a useful path.

This sentence deserves particular scrutiny.

A note on constitutionalism. The federal government has some powers, state governments have others, local governments have others, and school districts have still others. The fact that a state votes for a governor with certain views does not give that person the right to overrule local governments and/or school districts.

You keep acting as if DeSantis's election as governor gives him the right to ignore the state constitution and impose his views on school districts who, through their particular elections, reflect the contrary wishes of the majority of their constituents.

The people voted. It is you who would deny them that right. It is you who argue, as Trump's supporters do, that a minority with a loud enough collective mouth should determine all policies regardless of constitutional safeguards.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fact that a state votes for a governor with certain views does not give that person the right to overrule local governments and/or school districts.

Yes, it's essential to bear in mind the power structures - what they are, how they work, their limitations. Otherwise, chaos ensues, as we see.

Some of the same unfortunate disagreements exist here in Canada, even though the country is culturally diverse and is the first country in the world to adopt a federal multicultural policy. It is said to be viewed as our national identity. However, it's not 100% cohesive (understatement).

The Canadian Encyclopedia discusses the basic ideal of the policy which differentiates Canada from the USA:

"The initial idea behind multiculturalism was brought to popular attention by John Murray Gibbon’s 1938 book Canadian Mosaic: The Making of a Northern Nation, which challenged the US-born idea of cultural assimilation, known as the “melting pot.”

The basic tenet is that "all cultures have intrinsic value".

I view that as meaning, by extension, that all people and each individual also have intrinsic value. It sounds good in theory. Hard to work out though.

I mention multiculturalism as an aside as I see a parallel there with the ideal of live and let live.

Of course, we need societal structure. However, nobody should overstep the power they've been given but rather follow the order of things. If you're a mayor, don't act like a member of congress, if you're a school principal, don't rule like a tyrant. Even a president or a prime minister, at least in democratic societies, does not have supreme power - far from it. Especially, power should not be used to divide people, impose individual views on others, and oppress those who have different viewpoints and choices. The my way or the highway attitude doesn't benefit the greater good.

What I'm loving, to divert for a moment, is that my favourite show to critique on a regular basis because they don't always do things the way I would choose (ha), Jeopardy!, is currently including a trans woman (Amy Schneider) and a lesbian (Mattea Roach - Canadian) in their latest tournament of amazing champions. A man known to be religious, Ken Jennings (Mormon), is the host. He interacts with them seemingly naturally and with enjoyment. The show is watched by millions of viewers and their many fans celebrate the well-earned wins of these two contestants, and others. And the world still turns. We. Are. Not. All. The. Same. Being different does not equal being wrong or evil or undeserving of respect.

To get back to the topic of individuals who assume the identities of autocrats once they taste a tad of power, they need to stay in their own lane. Hopefully, there will always be mechanisms in place to ensure that's the case. Where the dam breaks, it's imperative for democracy-loving citizens to mend the breach, asap.

I sadly must conclude that, obviously, some religious denoms/groups bear huge responsibility in fomenting disdain, judgement and even hatred against anyone who doesn't toe the line the group draws in the sand. Denouncing them, hounding them, chasing them out of their communities is reminiscent of the witch hunts of humanity's relatively recent past (and I seriously dislike that phrase now, for reasons that may be obvious but it actually literally applies in this instance). It's unseemly and appalling.

Those who misuse their power to oppress others should think about a future where they're not in control any more.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2023 02:03PM by Nightingale.

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Parents 'must' protect their minor children from
> any-all possible harms;
>
> Christo-facist parents are waving their flags in
> the name of protecting their children from
> perceived indoctrination- 'grooming' those
> appealing for support are alarming them.
>

I would be interested if you can show proof of how anyone can "create" or "groom" a person of any age to be gay or trans.

You can’t do it any more than you can make a right handed person left handed or vice versa.

> Pretending those individuals don't exist or have
> rights to select, support - elect those who agree
> with them isn't a useful path.


That was also said of white parents who were "scared" of black children attending their child's school.

What are you scared of?

That they might be friends and not hate them?


Or that your children won't follow your path and reject hatred?

Yep, people sound the same today as they did 70 years ago.

https://youtube.com/shorts/HL5gVYF8r-Q?feature=share

anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would be interested if you can show proof of how
> anyone can "create" or "groom" a person of any age
> to be gay or trans.

> You can’t do it any more than you can make a
> right handed person left handed or vice versa.

Yeah. This is what I don't get.

It's like mass hysteria over something that doesn't even exist.

Makes. No. Sense.

I have always been attracted to males, from my earliest years when that became a thing. Nobody told me that's how I should feel. I never felt any other way. It's just the way my inherited genetic predispositions directed me. Or something like that. I've always enjoyed it. Males are beautiful people. But the attraction is through no effort on my part or credit due. It's chromosomes, baby.

And other people have varying DNA.

So the most hysterical religious opponents of personal freedom should blame God.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2023 02:10PM by Nightingale.

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> anybody Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I would be interested if you can show proof of
> how
> > anyone can "create" or "groom" a person of any
> age
> > to be gay or trans.
>
> > You can’t do it any more than you can make a
> > right handed person left handed or vice versa.
>
> Yeah. This is what I don't get.
>
> It's like mass hysteria over something that
> doesn't even exist.
>
> Makes. No. Sense.

Totalitarianism and religious fundamentalism are driven by the same emotion -- fear.

If they don't have an "enemy" to be afraid of, they create one.

>> Christo-facist parents are waving their flags in the name of protecting their children from perceived indoctrination- 'grooming' those appealing for support are alarming them.

Educators nationwide are very, very tired of having lies told about what we teach and how public schools are run.

Teachers joke that if we could "indoctrinate" (a favorite buzz-word of the right) students to do anything, it would be to have good school attendance, to read books instead of constantly being on their gaming consoles, to correctly add fractions, to treat their peers and adults with the ordinary level of respect that any adult would expect in the workplace, and to get off their **** phones for a minute. That is how we would indoctrinate students *if we could do so.*

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face -- teachers teach the curriculum. We teach what we are told to teach, when we are told to teach it. We don't come in and pull it out of our ass every day. Especially for the major subjects (English Language Arts and Math,) lessons can be highly scripted. Community members who have a problem with what is taught in schools need to take it up with their local school boards. Those are the people in control, along with the school system's superintendant.

Also -- if the right wingers are so deeply concerned with what is happening in the public schools, then I would urge them to enter the profession. Jump through all the hoops it takes to be a qualified public school teacher. Maybe teach in an urban Title 1 school. Then they can "indoctrinate" students however they want to. I'm going to bet that most of them lack the simple patriotism, sense of duty, and faith in America to do just that. They would rather lie about us, whine, and complain.

Underground Railroad outta Gilead!
Open to all prisoners!
Escape to the Best Coast, before it’s too late.

Well, they were millions of years ago when the dinosaurs were alive back when Arizona and Utah were underwater, but that's another story ;)

that you are just taking care of them.

I've told the story of the primary presidency coming to my house after we went inactive. She wanted to talk to our kids. She told them we were bad parents and that they would be coming to take our kids to church. My husband and I just stood there in shock.

Believe me, they never came to take our kids to church. They wouldn't have dared.

My aunt has a trans grandson. My aunt's family is extremely mormon. Her parents are extremely protective of her and expect the family to treat her well.

So were they taking the gays away years ago. Are they still?

I just love religion (sarcasm).

Folks, this is way past funny.

You may think, "So what. It's just a handful of people. I'm not involved, they won't come for me."

Oh, yes, they will.

Totalitarian autocracies cannot brook dissent or disloyalty -- real or imagined -- and religious fundamentalists are the worst.

So, if you aren't with the "program," it doesn't matter if you share the same prejudices or not.


Just Wait.

They will come for you.

Case in point: the quixotic war against Mickey Mouse because Disney had the nerve to complain about one of DeSantis’ laws. And so far the Mouse is winning. Not a real good look.

Don't Christo-facist parents & extended family groom their children to their wished outcomes?

Conversely I believe gay & trans parents are far more open-minded & less controlling than the EVs.

I would greatly prefer that Live & Let Live was the cultural-ethnic norm in all aspects but this is somewhat limited to adults, isn't it?

(continued) IDK about a person going trans & wishing to compete with or against birth other gender students/children.

Does this belong under the heading of parents protecting their children? What about showers; some coaches made them mandatory; when I was in jr hi, there was a swimming pool & all guys were required to swim nude (Loooong time ago, ja ja...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2023 07:26PM by GNPE.

Right now she’s playing League of Legends and I’m damn glad I only have one kid with one girlfriend.