My mom reported that her CA stake is having a special fast this coming weekend to boost missionary work. Apparently most wards are on life support with average attendance hovering around 100 or less. The target is supposed to be around 200.

She doesn't think that the fast is going to accomplish anything. She's smart enough to know that families are struggling to stay in an area that is largely made up of retired people. Her current ward has 9 children enrolled in primary. She thinks tithing and lack of church activities make the church extremely undesirable.

She believes that her ward will be combined with others as part of a consolidation program.

I don't think skipping a couple meals is enough suffering to get god to do anything. How many times have they tried that, only to have if fail.

Maybe everyone should cut off a finger, break a bone or kill their first born this time. Maybe that would be enough suffering to get god to do his job.

just make Posituve that no body parts are sent to me; how about to my former wife instead?

Sequim has lots of snow-bird & sun-bird members with a smattering of a superior CT judge, a chiropractor & sme other year-around folks; I have no idea how many youth live close & attend here...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2023 01:01PM by GNPE.

Sequim got a ward? Does the church know about this?

"There are ways, Dude. You don't wanna know about it, believe me. I'll get you a toe by this afternoon--with nail polish."

- Walter Sobchak

They would send the body parts with tithing as proof they suffered. Otherwise, how would god know?

Sacrificing their firstborn would prove to god that they’re serious, but it would also reduce the “children of record” on the ward’s rolls. I wonder if it would result in a net gain.

Yes, the good ole days of youth, when the church was not setting up shell companies. Since we had so many activities, many of us ignored the more questionable practices and behaviors.

River trips, yearly water skiing combined youth activity, camping along the snake river in Idaho, fishing, road shows, and all sorts of other things.

Cannot say when the last time I heard of any ward activity from the wife, and I have no idea who are members or not, since nobody ever comes by to say hello or anything. I have no idea who the bishop is, he has attempted to contact me once through my wife in the last 3 years.

I expect to see the same thing happen in my neck of the woods eventually.

Pretty sad that this is also happening in Utah. People are learning that Sacrament meeting is an awful place to be, and that the church has lost all meaning since they put their collective foot down and stated that the church wasn't supposed to be fun. Now they can't go back and stuff it all back into Pandora's box.

The church got away from the social club thing because they discovered the social stuff didn’t make more loyal members. The church wants loyalty so I think it’s part of weeding out. The social members probably didn’t pay tithing.

I don't think that's true. The social elements of the church were the glue that held it together: they were the source of group loyalty.

The reason the church eschewed the social events was two-fold: disparities between wards and, more importantly, the Q15's hostility to any local autonomy.

It was about control.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think that's true. The social elements of the church were the glue that held it together: they were the source of group loyalty. The reason the church eschewed the social events was two-fold: disparities between wards and, more importantly, the Q15's hostility to any local autonomy.

> It was about control.

IMO, it's a truism that especially for small towns, the local Christian church or ward serves as a social center. This is a traditional and expected part of American culture. Even in bigger cities, churches and cathedrals have served as social centers. For the Catholic church, this has been true since the middle ages. A functioning cathedral can serve as a beehive of activity for the entire community. I saw this in action at the Episcopal Cathedral of St. John the Divine in NYC, which hosts a stunning array of activities for the entire surrounding neighborhood.

I have thought for a long time that the de-emphasis of social activities is very foolish on the part of the Mormon church. On the one hand, the church at one point decided that everything has to have "a gospel purpose," putting the kibosh on fun activities. On the other, internal surveys have guided the church to put the emphasis on temples as opposed to the wards and their activities.

To me, the tilt in emphasis towards temples represents a hard turn towards the church's Masonic element. The community aspect is vanishing in favor of the Masonic element.

Is this a good strategy for the long run? In my opinion, no. Masonry already exists, and the Masons do what they do beautifully, and for a whole lot less cost.

The temple, actually, is about money. It's the best way to force faithful members to pay their tithing.

In the old days the church emphasized both social activities and temple attendance, with monthly trips organized at the ward level. The social activities held the community together and kept congregations large enough to increase the ranks of temple-goers.

It was a mistake to de-emphasize community, since wards are now less enthusiastic and there are fewer people to respond to the temple promotion. The result is less income than if the church were still socially attractive.

As for the Masonic themes, it's good to remember that the church has for many, many decades tried to bury that past. Most Mormon temple attenders either don't know the extent of the borrowing--which is what the Q15 want. They pretend that Masonry was a vague stimulus but that the temple ceremony resulted from direct inspiration.

I have heard a similar report from a friend in CA who is pretty tight with a couple of the Stake Pres people in his stake.

Mormon Heavenly Father wants you bored out of your mind but hand over your money to add to their billions all while pressuring you to do more for the church.

Russ and entourage are just handing the victory to Lucifer on a silver platter. The son of the Morning doesn't even have to try anymore.

And ghawd warned them, clear as day, that the love of money was the root of all evil.

Prudent business decision.

It is actually-- if you consider the possibility that Heavenly Father has welcomed enough "kids" back home and really doesn't even want any more coming back as he has come to realize that Less really is More. So he put an idiot in charge of the company to run it in the ground. Who say's there is no inspiration from God?

Ha! Ha! Ah it goes in cycles. The church will start building soccer fields and basketball courts again.

If only they had a paid staff to accomplish the ordinary functions of running a congregation, they wouldn’t have members resenting callings.

The weird thing is that in most mainstream churches, you get a lot more bang for the buck. Typically families pay from 1%-3% of income, and in return they get professionally trained clergy, a church secretary and janitor, an organist, and so on. I know that young families looking for a church want lots of youth activities. Mormons pay so much more, and get so much less.

Mormon leaders seem to be betting on temples to keep activity levels and tithing up. While that may appeal to a core group of TBMs, I'm not sure that prospective converts are going to look at the entire package and find it attractive. Many people simply don't have 10% to fork over to a church. And what's the appeal of the Mormon church without the temples? -- everything else has been drained away from the wards. When you join, you are given a set of invasive interviews, and handed a manual (for your new calling,) and a date to clean the ward building. What's the appeal?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2023 07:30AM by summer.

It will take a while for the temple building mania to become an obvious mistake. Maybe a mega church model is next. The church has deep pockets. It can make mistakes. It has that Luxury.

I think their "great and spacious" building in SLC was a step toward having a mega church, but they don't have the charisma to pull it off.

I can't see any of the GA's in million dollar shiny suits with big hair waving their arms around while people faint for Jesus.

You don't think Dallin Oaks is charismatic?

  
  
  

Even farther removed from the real Dallin Oaks.

  
If every month when you paid
your tithing, and could prove
it was 10% of your income, you
got a monthly mormon lottery
ticket, with 10 winning tickets
being worth 100 times the monthly
tithing payment you'd made, AND
your ward or branch got a fully
catered (and paid for party),
church revenues would sore!

Yea, but you forgot about the tithing, building, cleaning, service, bank, processing, humanitarian, temple, missionary, counseling, leadership support, mall support, shell company support fees that would be taken out.

Your net gain is 1% of tithing paid, and the ward gets a Chicken and Pork boiled hot dog party, with off brand Mustard and Ketchup, with day old returned buns.

Water is extra!

If God was serious, he'd want your dental metals!

https://www.thechurchnews.com/1998/5/9/23250717/be-loyal-worthy-to-enter-temple-members-urged

"They gave the gold from their dental work to help pay on the temple, said President Faust. He explained that he had purchased some of that gold, for more than the market price, and has shown the gold fillings to various congregations to illustrate the nature of the sacrifice made by these members."

(I'm surprised to see that LDS, Inc. hasn't paid to have this story scrubbed from the WWW).

RG

reinventinggrace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If God was serious, he'd want your dental metals!

For heaven's sake, don't give the church ideas!

The answer is simple.
Bring back many of the programs that have been cut. Used to be there were activities at all levels for most everyone.
A "sense of community" was a big part of Mormonism. Now most everything that was fun has been dumped.

Boyd KKK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The answer is simple.
> Bring back many of the programs that have been
> cut. Used to be there were activities at all
> levels for most everyone.
> A "sense of community" was a big part of
> Mormonism. Now most everything that was fun has
> been dumped.

2020-21 was the last straw for many wards and they have paid for it.

They had their fast last Sunday. Every ward in the affected stake was asked to have a special primary missionary song. My mom's ward had a whopping 5 kids on the stand belting out the call me on a mission song. Even my mom said that it was sad. Being a TBM~ she believes the fast went over very well. The bishop's wife refuted that the ward is geriatric. She thinks members need to reach out to the ten families with 5 or more kids to be "nice to them". Let the love-bombing begin to harass the families to start attending again. Zoom was cut-off and these families realized that it was cheaper and better to stay at home.

So now she's worried that her ward will become "blended". That's the Mormonease for combining several wards to have a semi-functioning ward. I told her to relax because she will continue to attend the church building that's 5 miles from her house. Her chapel is the newest church building in the stake~ the only church built in the 1990s. The other buildings date from the 1980s and a few are from the 1970s. Those Kimball era chapels are "toast"~ likely to be sold.

Wow - ten families with five or more children is half a ward all by themselves. And they have opted out. Putting a target on their back is not likely to help.

The Unitarian Church is downtown SLC can cobble together a 12 person children's choir without much trouble, and regularly does. That they can out-child an LDS ward is astonishing. Unitarians are a fairly geriatric group themselves.

I think cutting off zoom to try to force the homebodies back into the pews will not go over well. The homebodies will see it for what it is, negative manipulation, basically punishment.

My niece and her husband refer to their Unitarian Church as church for atheists with children. They go for community. I go with them on music Sunday, they have some amazing musicians.

They've been consolidating wards and stakes in CA for at least the last 35 years when I lived there at different times. I expect it ebbs and flows. In the early 1990s, when I lived in the bay area, three stakes folded into two, and several wards disappeared as part of the process.

We have church activities. We get to clean the chapel. And poor Heavenly Father gets to save some money too. These awesome chapel cleaning assignments are the most positive thing that we have in the Church right now. And I've been fully conditioned to accept that this is wonderful.

Jesus washed the disciples’ feet, and the members get to scrub toilets. It’s spiritually very similar.

Over 10 years ago when I was an active lds member the stake president made our stake do a special fast so that it would rain. It hadn't rained in a long time. So we fasted and no rain came. And yes, I was expecting heavy rain after so many people had fasted for rain.

Okay, who ate? :/

Lol. Either ate or masturbated.

Fasting & prayers-

What Mormons do often in trying, serious circumstances- situations, this reminds me of the drought in the west in places like Saint George where there are lots of Mormons; wiser people look for other solutions