The mormons I know, both family and otherwise, appear to believe that any outward/monetary "success" they have in life is the result, to a large extent, of living righteously.

Living "righteously" results in blessings of the monetary kind.

I'm convinced that there is:

1. A need to hold onto this belief system by those in the church for long time periods. The belief becomes intertwined with self worth and worldview.

2. That this contributes to the idea that is pervasive amongst mormons (though more quietly discussed than previously) - that people who leave the church do so because they aren't living "righteously".

3. True believers believe that living "unrighteously" leads to withdrawal of the spirit and withdrawal of the spirit is the only real reason one loses testimony. People who have gone through this process will eventually fail monetarily.

4. This is a primary reason why loss of testimony creates so many family problems and family tension. i.e those who leave have to be "sinners" - as nothing else can explain loss of testimony.

5. True believers will always choose the church, the belief that they are superior because they live righteously (and have the spirit) over the family member who is attempting to express feelings/thoughts about why church isn't "true".

IMO - all the talk about church issues/history/etc. - is secondary to the human need to feel "superior" that the church purposely instills by feeding the above line of reasoning to members from primary forward.

I stand all amazed. This sounds like somebody straight out of the moridor.
Many members in Tuscaloosa are struggling financially but these are also quality members. I've never heard any one here ever equate righteousness with financial success.

brother in law just bore testimony at baptism that financial success is the direct result of following the commandments.

interesting article among many

https://rogerdhansen.wordpress.com/2012/04/13/elder-ballard-and-the-mormon-prosperity-gospel/

entire bom is based on premise that righteous living results in "prosperity"

This is an excellent outline for Utah Mormons, they do equate success with righteousness.

Utah TBM's in general (not all), are in debt up to their eyeballs. Image is a big thing, as are the houses and all the toys in the driveway, garage, and parked next to the house. Then I hear it all when my wife passes all the ward gossip to me.

Kids not going on mission, the pregnancies, picking up the kids from the jail after a drinking binge, the drug rehab's, the list goes on. I know one family that has declared bankruptcy at least half a dozen times, and is coming up on their next one. But they pay that 10% tithing?

While I live in a nice house on a big lot that is just two years from being paid off, I have no car payments, I have no credit card payments, and I do not have a fleet of toys to maintain. I take nice vacations, and people ask my wife how we can possibly afford it all. Well I took that 10% and cleared all my debt, and am now saving 15% minimum towards my eventual retirement. I still do not drink (because I choose not to), and I do not smoke or party. I am in excellent health, and my doctor tells me I am healthier than all of his patients over the age of 40 and I am in my mid sixties. But Utah Mormonism considers me lost and in a sorrowful state because I do not go to church.

Go figure?

Ten percent of one's income is a huge amount of money. For low income people, it would be the difference between being able to pay their bills or not (and to maintain the dignity of paying their own way.) For middle income people, it would represent enjoying the niceties of life -- entertainment, vacations, etc. And for higher earners, that money could be used to fund retirements, build security, start businesses, and to assist other family members.

The policies of the LDS church rob people of building ordinary familial wealth and the happiness and security that flows from that.

An accurate observation, when I paid tithing it was during the years of obtaining my education and raising a family. Every time I wrote a check, it stressed me out. I worked two jobs until the age of 45 to keep up with everything, then one day I had enough and stopped the tithing bit and took control of were I was going in life. Also, at this time my first wife was a stay at home, and refused to work. I was one of those Mormons up to my eyeballs in debt and keeping the image up for the wife.

That action of not paying tithing has done more to insure my financial stability and retirement goals. Everything got better "after" I made that decision.

I believe you. That must have been very empowering to take back control of your own life.

The "popular" kids run the school (ward)

Even if someone isn't well off among the "popular" kids -they do whatever they can to appear to be financially successful (leading to one of the highest bankruptcy filing rates in the country ie. utah year after year)

There are mormons who are wise with their money, live well below means, drive older, paid off cars, and who are likely - at least many of them - very well off - but it appears to me after years of membership - that these people aren't usually part of the popular kid crowd -

One will often see a young bishop with several children, an enormous home, suburban, boat, named as leader in ward or stake and later file for bk

Yet the quieter, "saver" with the smaller house, used car, will almost always be the 2nd counselor in the elder's quorum or similar.

Outward appearance of financial success in Provo is proof to the mormon community that the spirit is strong with the individual and imo - the "higher" leaders - stake presidents/70s and even quorum of the 12 members are often fooled by this - they overlook the outwardly humble member for
higher leadership callings as a general rule....

It is the way that it works here (not always but almost always) - and it's directly connected to the idea - taught to members from primary on and directly from the bom - that adherance to the spirit - results in worldly success.

it can't be denied.

I have two pretty basic no frills cars, my wife and I live pretty frugally, and yes, I don't pay tithing. But I'm almost certain my net worth dwarfs almost all of my neighbors, with all their toys, fancy home improvement expenditures, and the like. I bet they'd really be surprised if they knew how much in liquid capital and investments that I/we have accrued.

EGO.
It’s their identity, their tribe and they have been convinced they will become drug addicts/alcoholic/wife beating child abusers if they leave.
When in reality, you don’t lose your self control or conscience when you allow yourself to follow the evidence to the logical conclusion.

The need to feel superior is exactly right. It is the very foundation of Mormonism. They are not unique in this control method but they certainly have it mastered.

Ballard and a few others have taught that the more righteous you are the more the Lord blesses you with more riches than you can contain. One only need to observe for ten minutes or so to see that this just ain't the case. You don't get rich by being good. You get rich by being good at something.

I’m living in Mexico, and I see tortilla makers, shoeshiners, dressmakers, chefs, etc. that are really, really good at something.

They are definitely rich, though not in ways perhaps most U.S. Americans would recognize.

¿Por donde andas, vago?

Some people stay because the ward is the best place going to hear about the next get-rich-quick scheme. How else you gonna keep your ear to the ground and get in on the ground floor of the next NuSkin?

Members ask how I'm doing at 7-11 because they know that I left the church, hence I'm being punished by working at a convenience store. She tells them that I'm working at Home Depot with great hours and good benefits. She actually confuses me for another sibling, but because members wholeheartedly buy into prosperity gospel they think people who leave the church become too stupid to work good jobs.

When I left the church, I was in a "leadership" position.

This apparantly necessitated visits from various "important" people in an effort to find out what happened so that it could be properly explained to the ward members who were confused/upset that I had abruptly quit attending.

I explained in as much detail as each could tolerate, including to the Bishop, what had happened, why I didn't believe the church was "true" etc.

At the end of the meeting with the Bishop, he say's "so it sounds like you are having financial problems, I'll tell the ward council that you are having problems and can't come to church for a while until it's solved".

I said, "please don't say that, that's not what I explained to you."

Over several week period, I recieved numerous calls and visitors asking me how they could help financially.

Bishop admitted to telling the ward counsel that I was suffering financially.

The Bishop was so determined that I had lost the spirit and that it would lead to my financial "demise" that he justified pretending like it had already happened and telling everyone in ward counsel that this was the problem.

It can't ever be that perhaps, the church is just a church. Not "god's church".

This is a very basic, simple reason, but I think a lot of Mormons stick with the church simply because they're just not listening and paying attention.

When I was on my way out of the church, I remember there being a lot of talks and church "counsel" that I found questionable or pretty offensive. I'm sure that it was there all along, but I had just tuned a lot of it out. When I tried to talk about what I heard with my TBM husband he would say that he hadn't heard that talk or wasn't paying attention, etc.

I hadn't been to church in a long while, but went to sacrament meeting with my husband for Easter this year. Again, I heard a pretty offensive talk that he said that he missed. I have a TBM friend who was also there and she said that her mind was wondering and that she missed the talk as well.

Mormonism is one long, boring religion and it only makes sense that after awhile most people just tune out and go through the motions. But if they would only put their phones away and wake up from their naps during sacrament meeting...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2023 03:16PM by want2bx.

to convince males that they are extra special.

born in last days

have god in heaven's very own special superpower - that no one else has

that power can heal the sick and more

knowlege via spirit that church is true becomes stronger and priesthood more powerful - the better you follow commandments

better follow commandments better chance you have of hot mate after mission and monetary success

more monetary success/hotter mate equals more righteous

more righteous incentivezed to follow brethren more

more righteous equals more righteous to tell others that the spirit has left them

men eat that shit up.