https://apnews.com/article/cardinal-robert-prevost-card

Date of Birth: Sept. 14, 1955

Nationality: American and Peruvian

Position: Prefect of the Dicastery for Bishops; president of the Pontifical Commission for Latin America under Francis

Experience: Archbishop of Chiclayo, Peru; head of the Augustinian religious order

Made a cardinal by: Francis

Francis brought Prevost, 69, to the Vatican in 2023 to serve as the powerful head of the office that vets bishop nominations from around the world, one of the most important jobs in the Catholic Church. As a result, Prevost has a prominence going into the conclave that few other cardinals have.

One strike against him, however, is that he’s American, and there has long been a taboo against a U.S. pope, given the geopolitical power already wielded by the United States in the secular sphere. But Prevost, a Chicago native, could be a first because he’s also a Peruvian citizen and lived for years in Peru, first as a missionary and then as an archbishop.

So he's Francis project interesting I hope he will be less divisive than the last one and say what he means

Pet

deleted to relocate post



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2025 04:41PM by caffiend.

Hieronymus User Wrote:
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> So he's Francis project interesting I hope he will
> be less divisive than the last one and say what he
> means

If you say what you mean, then you're going to be divisive--not everybody will think the way you do.

At first glance, he seems to be cut out of the same cloth as Francis. This has many good points and one very notable bad point -- the new Pope Leo appears to be as lax as Francis was towards child molesters, perhaps believing as Francis did that the confessional solves all problems.

With the benefit of hindsight, Leo had unwittingly built a quiet but large power base. The American cardinals would have known him, and the Latin Americans would have considered him one of their own, especially with his dual citizenship. He interviewed and vetted as bishops many rising leaders in the church. As such, he was also well known to the Roman curia, and this may have appealed to the European cardinals. America, South America, and Europe -- that's a winning combination in terms of Vatican power politics.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2025 04:59PM by summer.

Sure, they could have picked someone a lot worse, but the entire organization is disturbing on several levels in my view. I don't have a lot of expectations for progress (child protection, women's equality, reproductive rights, etc.) from the Church.

Performative tradition and status quo seems to be what keeps their flock supporting them.

What a dog and pony show that whole process was, from funeral to conclave. Sometimes I didn't know if I was watching clips from the Met Gala or the Vatican. ;-)

I can't believe people take all that religious pomp so seriously. All I can say is that humans are bizarre.

Dagny wrote in part:

"I can't believe people take all that religious pomp so seriously. All I can say is that humans are bizarre."

C'mon! You're from a religion that literally believes that its leaders are prophets sent by God and whose subjects treat them as rock stars! The reality is (and I think I've pointed this out before) many people are wedded to the beliefs they were taught as children, even when the factual information surrounding those beliefs has been solidly and conclusively proven to be false. I think people hold onto their beliefs as a bulwark against change in an ever-changing world.

LOL
But I got better (said in my best Monty Python voice)!

blindguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've pointed this out
> before) many people are wedded to the beliefs they
> were taught as children, even when the factual
> information surrounding those beliefs has been
> solidly and conclusively proven to be false. I
> think people hold onto their beliefs as a bulwark
> against change in an ever-changing world.

Perhaps that's why I'm different.

I didn't believe in any of it.

I rebelled.


"Better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven." :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2025 12:23PM by anybody.

A couple of weeks ago I rewatched Spotlight, the movie depicting the legal war over pedophilia and its concealment by the Catholic Church in Boston through the 1980s and 1990s.

In it one of the investigators made the point I have offered here many times: that child molestation has been so widespread in the church that there is no senior leader who is not compromised. That, the movie argued, is why reform from inside is impossible. That logic would likewise explain why Francis abandoned his early advocacy of openness and responsibility within a couple years of assuming the papacy.

The movie also mentions that when news of Bernard Law's removal from Boston and elevation to an even higher position in Rome--far from the prying eyes of American journalists and prosecutors--was reported by Rome's largest television station, its announcers laughed.

Yes, it's hard to expect that the corrupt are punished when they are all corrupt or complicit.
They have a vested interest to keep the institution in tact above all else.

I'm bummed. I was really pushing for Cardinal Pierbatistta Pizzaballa. SNL would've brought back Father Guido Sarducci!

I know, right?

I wouldn't be surprised if Father Guido Sarducci does show up on SNL. He was a guest on Colbert's show this week. What a hoot. I was hoping for more Pope in the Pizza jokes though.

I found it interesting that he chose the name Leo. The last pontiff to use that name shut himself in his own residence after the papal estates were taken away from him by the powers that created modern-day Italy in the 1870s. It is possible, therefore, that the new name may signal some shifts away from some policies supported by Francis. We'll see.

The other thing that interests me here is this pope's age. If the cardinals were going for longevity, they would, I think, have chosen someone in his 50s. While nobody knows when one's death will occur, my best guess is that, barring assassination or disease, the new pontiff will be here for anywhere from 10 to 20 years.

Maybe they don't want someone who will be around that long, blindguy. They sure get a lot of widespread public attention and free publicity during the process of choosing a new guy. Every 10 years or so would likely be quite suitable in their eyes.

I have heard a lot of positive comments about this new pope. So that's a good start for him and for them.

Quite a few commentators in previous days have said there's little chance of the new pope being an American. Haha - they fooled ya! Everybody I saw and all those I heard being interviewed, public and clergy alike, seemed very happy with the choice. Good publicity for the church at this point.

I just looked up the biography of Pope John Paul II, the longest serving pontiff during my lifetime. He was born in 1920, became pope in 1978 at the age of 58, and died in 2005 at the age of 85, having served 27 years in the papal role per his Wikipedia entry. In John Paul II's case, his immediate predecessor, John Paul I, served for less than three weeks, the shortest amount of time of any Roman pontiff during my lifetime.

I think age does play a factor, Nightingale. I believe it did when they selected Francis. Pope John Paul II's long reign was something of an anomaly.

Yes, summer. On the other end, the commentators mentioned that the candidates age out at 80 as they don't want a pope that turns out to be too short term.

I'm amazed at the extent of the coverage pre- and post-appointment. Wow - wall to wall it seems on some outlets. I was wondering what all the other church groups must be thinking as they never, ever get such publicity and most likely never will.

I was also amazed at the interest and excitement even of some of the media commentators as they presented their coverage. I don't remember seeing that before - maybe I wasn't paying attention. I know it's interesting and certainly kind of a pageant setting (Italy is good for that as are the Vatican and its surroundings) but if it's not your faith group you'd think there'd be a limit to the interest or at least your reaction? In any case, many Catholics certainly appear very devoted and even non-members obviously enjoy the pageantry.

Kind of like the British monarchy as well on a good day.

Speaking of which, King Charles is coming to Canada for the opening of a new session of Parliament. His mum (QEII) did it last in 1977. Charles has visited Canada several times but not since he became king.

We like a bit of pomp and ceremony, no doubt. But most are quite happy when the king (our official head of state) pops in and then leaves again, back to Merry Olde.

I think it is a bigger statement, Nightingale. Hopefully he will keep his elbows up.

Bigger than pomp and ceremony you mean, kentish? Yes, I've heard that too - re elbows.

"The last pontiff to use that name shut himself in his own residence after the papal estates were taken away from him by the powers that created modern-day Italy in the 1870s."
As usual, I'm amazed at the depth of expertise on Catholicism in this forum. All that's missing now are Laura Loomer's comments.

There are several people on this site who know far more than you about Catholicism: and have proved it.

One of my own comments about Pope Leo XIII was incorrect; he was not the pontiff when the Catholic church lost the papal estates; that was Pope Pius IX, the pontiff who preceded him him; and it was Pius IX who shut himself in the Pope's residence after losing the papal estates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_IX

Pope Leo XIII followed Pius IX in 1878. It was he who first pronounced that the Catholic church should support the poor and rights of workers to organize. He also wrote an encyclical criticizing both laisey-faire capitalism and European-style socialism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_XIII

I apologize for my errors. (I should learn to check before relying on memory alone--but I still do it.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2025 10:23AM by blindguy.

blindguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I apologize for my errors. (I should learn to
> check before relying on memory alone--but I still
> do it.)

Most of us do it, blindguy, some of us more than others. No worries. Unless it makes you start wondering about the health of your brain which demonstrably truly does come to us all at some point.

Well, blindguy, please check again. The very article with Wikipedia that you gave a link to, says: "Pius IX died one month later on 7 February 1878 at 5:40 pm, aged 85, while saying the rosary with his staff. The cause of death was epilepsy, which led to a seizure and a sudden heart attack."
And to Lot'S Wife's remark "There are several people on this site who know far more than you about Catholicism": that might be the case and would not be very surprising as I'm not a Catholic. But at least I can read.

> And to Lot'S Wife's remark "There are several
> people on this site who know far more than you
> about Catholicism": that might be the case and
> would not be very surprising as I'm not a
> Catholic. But at least I can read.

blindguy and summer are perfectly good at reading. If the former made a mistake, I venture that even you do the same from time to time.

fritz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, blindguy, please check again. The very
> article with Wikipedia that you gave a link to,
> says: "Pius IX died one month later on 7 February
> 1878 at 5:40 pm, aged 85, while saying the rosary
> with his staff. The cause of death was epilepsy,
> which led to a seizure and a sudden heart
> attack."
> And to Lot'S Wife's remark "There are several
> people on this site who know far more than you
> about Catholicism": that might be the case and
> would not be very surprising as I'm not a
> Catholic. But at least I can read.

I'm really not sure what I got wrong here. I said that Leo XIII replaced Pius IX in 1878. I didn't go into how Pius IX died; and, since it was long after the new Italian government conquered the papal estates (1870-1871, per the Wikipedia article), that event had no direct bearing on his passing.

Will they let him drive the Pope-mobile?

So, apparently conservative Catholics are very upset by the results of the election, in the same manner that they were upset with Francis. I don't remember my relatives ever being upset by a pope in the olden days, although they liked some better than others. They really liked John XXIII, who was very similar to Francis, a "peace and love" pope.

I see the majority of Catholics loosie-goosie about the Pope and rules of the Church.

All you have to witness is the number of people that show for services on Christmas and Easter.

On those days, the churches are packed to the rafters with people. On all other Sunday's and Holydays you rarely see a packed house.

What the Pope proclaims, or changes won't impact the majority.

tumwater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see the majority of Catholics loosie-goosie
> about the Pope and rules of the Church.
>
> All you have to witness is the number of people
> that show for services on Christmas and Easter.
>
> On those days, the churches are packed to the
> rafters with people. On all other Sunday's and
> Holydays you rarely see a packed house.
>
> What the Pope proclaims, or changes won't impact
> the majority.

What you see (and what I've experienced) is Catholicism in the U.S. That experience does not hold true worldwide, especially in third world countries. I should also note that despite Pope Paul VI's condemnations, most U.S. Catholics do use birth control. And the U.S.-based group, Catholics for a Free Choice (it's pro-choice) has a lot of support from otherwise faithful church members.

It would be a mistake to judge Catholicism by Mormon standards. The RCC is a "big tent" denomination that has a large tolerance for varying worship styles, from the "twice a years" to the Opus Dei faction. As Blindguy points out, it would be a mistake to judge the world church by U.S. standards. The RCC in Africa, for instance, has a much lower tolerance for LGBTQ individuals.

In the U.S., members generally respect the pope and his pronouncements but then do as they see fit. The ban on "artificial" birth control (the pill, IUDs, etc.) is one such example -- Catholic women use birth control to the same degree that everyone else does.

Perfect postmodern Pope. Dual US+3rd World. A bishop's bishop. No saint but no Satan either. The messenger is the medium.

There was a guy at the Vegas-Edmonton hockey game last night dressed as the Pope! Only in Sin City...

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was a guy at the Vegas-Edmonton hockey game
> last night dressed as the Pope! Only in Sin
> City...


USA! USA! USA!

Oh the chants..

He was an American pope, raised on promises...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J7bAeH7iJFc&pp=0gcJCdgAo7VqN5tD

Tom Lehrer (still alive!) was an MIT professor (Physics, I think) and a superb songsmith, humorist, and performer. After Vatican II liberalized various liturgical practices, back in the 60s, he wrote (and here, performs) his "Vatican Rag" which shouldn't offend anybody.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvhYqeGp_Do

Lest anybody think he's hostile, he also takes the Baptists to task with an old-time tent-revival song, "We'll All Go Together (When We Go)."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2025 04:50PM by caffiend.

Why does he have to change his name? Why can't he just be Pope Bob?

I keep imagining some guy in Chicago saying, "Bob Prevost? I went to school with that guy!"

Greyfort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why does he have to change his name? Why can't he
> just be Pope Bob?
>
> I keep imagining some guy in Chicago saying, "Bob
> Prevost? I went to school with that guy!"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-pope-name-why-they-change/

While there is no written rule about popes changing their name in the Roman Catholic church, it is customary and the name the pope chooses signifies to many church watchers the direction in which his papacy will most likely move.

Leo has African ancestry via mixed race grandparents from Louisiana.

Do Mormons today even remember the "Curse Of Cain" or has that been conveniently flushed down the memory hole?

############

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/11/pope-leo-xiv-family-history

Pope Leo XIV, who on Thursday was elected as the first-ever US-born leader of the Roman Catholic church, has a familial bloodline that reflects his homeland’s fraught relationship with race – and why the nation’s stature as a melting pot of origins has long endured, records unearthed by genealogists show.

The maternal grandfather of 69-year-old Robert Prevost, the newly minted pope, was evidently born abroad in Santo Domingo, the capital of the Dominican Republic, according to birth records that professional genealogist Chris Smothers cited to ABC News in a recent report. When Leo’s grandfather, Joseph Martinez, obtained an 1887 marriage license to wed the future pope’s grandmother, Louise Baquié, he listed his birthplace as Haiti, which at the time was the same territory as Santo Domingo, Smothers noted.

Baquié’s birth records, meanwhile, indicate that she was born in Louisiana’s most prominent city, New Orleans, to parents who were reportedly married at a local Catholic church.

Records from the 1900 census show that Joseph – apparently the son of a Louisianan – and Louise lived at a home in New Orleans’s Seventh Ward, a bastion for the city’s Creole people. The couple’s home later was among hundreds that were demolished to make way for a highway overpass linking New Orleans’s suburbs to its globally renowned French Quarter, a move that drastically reduced the area’s population and economically devastated the scores of Black businesses that had been prevalent there.

Those same census records identified Leo’s maternal grandparents as Black. Two of his aunts were similarly identified, just about four years after the Plessy v Ferguson US supreme court case – which originated in New Orleans – upheld the constitutionality of racial segregation in the country.

By 1920, the Martinez family had moved north to Chicago and away from the racially oppressive US south. The future pope’s mother, the Chicago-born Mildred Agnes Martinez, was eight at the time. And the census that decade listed the Martinezes as white.

##########

https://www.nola.com/news/pope-leo-new-orleans-heritage-explained/article_2747e016-b148-43e0-9bd1-026a371f4b91.html

For local Catholics, whose church has been challenged by scandal and bankruptcy, the unprecedented selection of an American pope is cause for celebration. And for Black Catholics, who often have felt overlooked, the revelation that Pope Leo hails not only from America but from 7th Ward stock is especially meaningful, a moment of new possibility.

“Now we have something else to celebrate besides festivals,” said Dimitria Boykins, a longtime local Catholic and member of Our Lady of Guadalupe Parish on North Rampart Street. “In New Orleans, everyone treats visitors as family. We have family now that really is representing us.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2025 10:02AM by anybody.

So what? Every modern prophet has been American, as have nearly all the Apostles.

/s