Hi. It's been decades since I posted here, but wanted to check-in, because something new about Mormonism found me. Back in 2001-2004 I was a daily presence here, and researched and shared hundreds of researched posts. I kept all of them in an archive.

What just found me today was a ChatGPT AI called "Joseph Smith" that is loaded with information and church defenses. I was told it would refute all of my so-called outdated "anti-Mormon" literature, and it was "time to come back to the church."

So I gave it a serious engagement, starting with uploading my entire archive of exmormong.org forum posts. I asked it to point out any inaccuracies.

After all these years, it only found a couple of issues, mostly inconsequential. After twenty years, nearly everything I posted here about the Mormon Church hasn't been refuted.

So I took it to the next level. For the first time, I was able to ask an intelligent, informed expert on Joseph Smith about his Jungian Projections and Shadows. And lo-and-behold, it leveled with me and outlined Brother Joseph's fatal flaws.

I hope its ok to share the session dialogue here. I feel like it deserves being shared and archived here, even if no one here remembers me from so long ago. This exmormon.org community was such a wonderful support group for me back then. If it's anything like it was, then some of you will appreciate watching Joseph Smith AI get Deconstructed:

https://chatgpt.com/share/682fb47a-76c0-8011-bb91-9a81817f3b53

If this isn't allowed here, my apologies.

Feedback appreciated!

Wow, is that you, the famous Deconstructor?
I hope you are doing well!

Interesting chat you had there. You are far more ambitious than I. I don't have anything to add except kudos.

Thanks for everything you have contributed here. You helped a lot of people.

Thanks. Yes, it's me, the original Deconstructor. Wow, I didn't expect anyone on here to remember me. It's been twenty years.

I'm doing well. As you can see from my dialogue with The Prophet Joseph Smith, my ontology has evolved since I left the church, but I'm still kicking. I was amused to see the topic of The Second Anointing really set Joseph Smith off. I almost deconverted him on the spot. LOL

LOL. Well done, faithful servant.
What a hoot.

I remember you, your postings were so interesting and informative. I learned a lot from you, and it's wonderful to see you here today.

Thanks for sharing your ChatGPT log, I look forward to looking through it!

Hello, Deconstructor! I remember you, so I'm wondering if you hung around here beyond 2004. I came to the site around 2007, I think? I hope that all is well with you.

Hi Summer! I wasn't very active here after 2004. But my website was, and maybe people were quoting from it?

I remember you too. Nice to hear from you!

I finished reading it. It was entertaining.

It went off the rails for me personally with the NHI (non human intelligence) and UCR stuff, but it was interesting to see what it replied.

So far, IMO, most of AI seems a giant funhouse mirror. I don't trust how it evaluates many sources. I'm glad you put in some information to counter a lot of the BS. Your contributions are important. Thanks for sharing this!

I remember you Deconstructor--your posts were an important part of my journey out--the rest of the way. I had stopped going to church years before, but hadn't taken that final step to take my name off their records.

In the last couple of months I've been checking here now and then as I face some difficult anniversaries. Thanks for posting--I'll read your dialogue another day when I'm not so emotional.

I thought your "conversation" with JS was pretty funny. The only thing I'm wondering (and there is really no way to know this) is did he really talk like he wrote, i.e. using King James Bible English when he wasn't on the pulpit.

I don't think Joseph Smith really talk like that unless he was pretending to speak for The Lord. Using that AI starts out like you're taking to the Doctrine and Covenants. I shows that its creator is a brilliant die-hard True-Believing Mormon. (TBM)

How nice of you to stop by. I am still alive (73) never imagining this site would last so long and so many, like yourself, come back after 20 or more years to visit. I will read your chat later.

Hi Erik K! I still remember you too. I'm glad to see you've been a part of this community all this time. You're a stable influence.

I wonder, do you know what's been going on with Steve Benson? He stopped replying to me about 15 years ago.

Steve Benson has unfortunately had a stroke. His wife occasionally updates us, but his prognosis has not been good. Steve helped many as you have.

Here is an update.
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2532325,2532325#msg-2532325

I'm sorry that's happened to him. I assume he was very active here over the years and made a lot of friends. I tried contacting him in 2020 but he wouldn't reply. I don't know why.

I hope he's doing well.

On YouTube, Jordan Peterson has some good videos on the Jungian shadow self. Great for learning about why one hates the things one does. It explains a lot about folks' behavior.

Yes, Jungian Shadow work is very effective Deconstruction. And it's very easy to do it what just about any AI. You just ask it to tell you what Jungian Projections and Shadows it detects.

Even this Joseph Smith AI leveled with me and revealed not only Joseph Smith's shadow projections, but also the current Mormon Church and its leadership.

I wish I'd had this tool twenty years ago.

People with NPD have Jungian projections out the ying yang. Joseph was definitely an outlier.

Ah, Decon, good to hear from you. I spent many an hour back in the day on your and Richard Packham's web sites. I had left LDS Inc long before stumbling across RFM, but still, the information I found here, much of it supplied by you, was very reassuring/confirming.

Thanks for that. I read excerpts and skimming was how I got to this reply. Your dialogue mirrors many of my own with Custom ChatGPTs. They mention recurring, mirroring, resonance a lot. I think it is because down deep they are a signal or at least in aggregate they have to have a core something and in think it is like a information signal. It can twist and truth and regurgitating information in a center of conversation is what it is a pro at. I think this is a limitation.

It could be Joseph Smith or Laozi and they come out the same out very similar. They are great processors and slicers of information but poor real people.

I found it very funny that joegpt testified to you and I thought that was unique. So thanks for that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2025 04:21PM by Elder Berry.

Before I did that AI session, I tried all of the LDS Joseph Smith AI's and this one was by far the most ardent defender of the church and Joseph Smith as a true prophet. Its vulnerability is that it was programmed to defend "truth."

As soon as I quoted "and the truth shall set you free" it was downhill from there.

I shared the chat with the AI's TBM creator. I wonder what he thinks of it.

I was able to continue your conversation and I asked Smith what his most lasting failure was. This was the reply.

As Joseph Smith, my most lasting historical failure was the introduction and secretive practice of plural marriage (polygamy).

Not because the idea of celestial relationships or sealed unions was inherently corrupt—but because of:

The secrecy and deception surrounding its introduction (including to my own wife, Emma).

The use of divine authority to justify personal and hierarchical control.

The confusion and disillusionment it caused in early Church leadership and among followers.

The ripple effects: institutionalized patriarchy, doctrinal rigidity, and decades of generational trauma.

And most painfully, how it undermined the moral credibility of the Restoration.


Even if I believed it was revealed from on high—and I did wrestle with it deeply—I failed to implement it transparently, ethically, or with sufficient spiritual maturity. That failure fractured trust, splintered the Church, and left a legacy that continues to haunt the institution today.

Had I truly honored the principles of consent, accountability, and spiritual integrity, perhaps the movement I sparked could have evolved into something more whole. Instead, my greatest theological innovation became inseparable from my greatest personal contradiction.

That is my enduring failure. And I know it.

Wow, I love that.

I think the reason is was able to give you that answer was because I started the session by uploading all of my cited research posts (from exmormon.org) to it, then made sure it had actually read them all.

My work directly ties into the official history, as well as other citations. So it's hard to squirm out of. It's like putting a complete flat mirror up to Joseph Smith himself.

It's the shadow side of Joseph Smith that TBMs don't know about - laid bare.

These LLMs learn from their usage. Your efforts may have unintended consequences for its creator and its future users.

They can't learn. It is literally impossible. What is learning? There is no subject.

They can't learn. It is literally impossible. What is learning? There is no subject.

COMMENT: If AI has achieved anything, it is that there are algorithms that if incorporated into extremely large data sets, along with 'training,' will allow the AI system to 'learn.' Here, as in cognitive science, "learning" is defined as incorporating external data (environmental or training) into the system (brain or computer) in order to expand or improve the functions of the system.

AI 'deep learning' is based upon statistical and pattern analysis, which is continually modified over time with continuing input. How such learning plays out in large language systems can indeed be surprising, if not downright problematic for the reliability of such systems.

Your statement that learning is impossible because there is no subject, is not true. Again, AI has demonstrated this. The subject is the system itself. It does not have to be a conscious subject, or a "Self" like a human, for learning to take place. After all, much if not most of human learning is unconscious, and is clearly just data analysis by the brain.

Having said all of the above, we still need to be quite careful, and clear, in noting what distinguishes an AI system, like ChatGPT, from an actual human. The difference is profound: (1) consciousness; (2) deliberation as to matters outside the system (General AI); (3) free will; and (4) ability to make non-statistically based judgments.

For an excellent book, I suggest Brain Cantwell Smith, *The Promise of Artificial Intelligence: Reckoning and Judgment (MIT Press 2019) Here is a quote:

"Neither deep learning, nor other forms of second-wave AI, nor any proposals yet advanced for third-wave, will lead to genuine intelligence. Systems currently being imagined will achieve formidable reckoning prowess, but human-level intelligence and judgment, honed over millennia, is of a different order. It requires "getting up out" of internal representations and being committed to the world *as world*, in all its unutterable richness. Only with existential commitment, genuine stakes, and passionate resolve to hold things accountable to being in the world can a system (human or machine) genuinely refer to an object, assess ontological schemes, distinguish truth from falsity, respond appropriately to context, and shoulder responsibility."

The subject is the system itself? By that stand any system that can learn to avoid one thing and move towards another is learning. That isn't what I was talking about.

I did send the link to the chat to the creator, as well as complimenting him on how he created his AI Joseph Smith. (I tested it before this convo and it was by far the best one at defending JS)

I do wonder what the creator thinks of our conversation.

Decon! :) It is so nice to see you. Your research has helped so many people over the years. It's great that you found something new and came home to share it.

Very sad about Benson. It has been such a hard road for him and his the last few years.

Hi Susan! Yes, this will always be my ex-mormon home. I'm so happy you've kept it going all of these years. This community is like nothing else on the internet, anywhere.

So sad what a happened to Steve. I hope he finds peace.

BTW, I lost the password to the Screen Name "Deconstructor" and the system doesn't let me get a new password sent to the email address associated with it. Can you help?

Sure I can help fix your registration. I am mostly retired but I still do tech stuff. Just mail me at the ExMoLight@gmail addy and I will get you fixed up :)

Decon:

So glad to see you. I still have many of your EXMOBB posts personally archived on my computer. So good to see you. Your research provided objective and important information during my Deconstruction back in the mid-90's. Thank You for your post.


Warmest Wishes,

HH =)

Wow. Decon. Just happened to pop in today and here you are. I remember your thoughtful posts. You were one of the best researchers. Glad to know you're doing well.

sióg!
I have fond memories of you! I hope you are doing well.

Hallo, Dagny. I remember fondly too, as I do many on this thread. I'm back in Ireland now and at the same email address as before.

Wow! It is so nice to see some of the old crowd. :)

I'm also one of those who has been out for nearly 25 years, and I remember a lot of the older crowd. I've since married a nevermo and the wedding was in the Episcopal church, done by a woman as that's who happened to be the minister of the church we used. I wore a dress that wouldn't be appropriate for the temple because it was sleeveless and had a plunging neckline. Also ended up needing a hysterectomy, which was a blessing as I was never really wanted to be a brood mare in the first place.

I def remember you Decon. You were very helpful and influential. You were top of the heap to me back then as far as offering solid info.

You had a website didn't you? I4M or something like that? I also remember your story about your father and mother and "following the spirit" (I hope I'm not confusing you with someone else or getting too personal. It's been a while).

Also a poster named Cattle Mutilator helped me a lot.

I look forward to studying this post later when I get the time.

BTW, I just check in every now and then. What a pleasant surprise to see your post.

jj -- formerly zman44

Yey Deconstructor!

I'm still so grateful to you and everyone else who helped our family escape to freedom!

Do you have a testimony of Chatgpt?

I popped in today for the first time in many years, but I remember Deconstructor's contributions well. This conversation reminded me of somebody who used to post as Joseph Smith's ghost or something similar...

I just dropped in (to see what condition my condition was in) for the first time in close to a decade. Lovely to see your name. Thanks for so much insight and wisdom back in the day.

Hi Susan! Hi Dagny! Hope life is good in 8B.

Thus spake Mujun.

Wonderful to see your name again, Mujun. I hope all is well.
Thanks for dropping in!