I have a female friend that I have been friends with for over 30 years. She was the first girl I kissed and even though we broke up we remained friends all through high school. She got married just a few months after I did and lived in an apartment just a few blocks away from the apartment my wife and I lived in after we got married. We had dinner with her and her husband several times before they moved to another town. Her kids are about the same age as my kids and now they live a few miles away from where I live now. I have stayed in touch with her over the years. I usually talk to her around the time of my birthday and her birthday and Christmas time. I try to take her out to lunch for her birthday each year. I have also been over to her house numerous times to fix their computer and help them with computer problems. Over the years, I've talked to her about my feelings about the church and told her when we left the church (7 years ago). I've tried to be careful to make sure her husband didn't feel I was trespassing on his relationship with his wife.

She is an accomplished dutch oven chef. She can cook pretty much anything in a dutch oven and invited my family over to her house for dinner this last summer. We got there about 20-25 minutes late but I called her over an hour before we were supposed to arrive and let her know we were going to be a little late and she said it wasn't a problem.

When it came time for the blessing on the food her husband asked ME to give the blessing. She immediately corrected him and told him "He's not mormon any more." He responded with "He still knows how to pray, doesn't he?" I went ahead and gave a half hearted blessing on the food feeling quite uncomfortable as I did. I have never been comfortable praying in public or around other people. If the same thing happened to me now, I would tell him to find someone else to give the blessing.

We started getting our food and his cell phone rang. It was someone from the ward asking for a ride. He excused himself and he and his son left. They didn't return until just before we left.

I've tried to put the whole incident behind me but for some reason, I really feel hurt by it. I feel like he did it on purpose to make me feel uncomfortable.

What are your thoughts? Am I making more out of this than I should?

Oh, wait, you were asking about the prayer.

I'm at a loss as to why someone would ask a guest to give the blessing. But far worse was leaving the dinner party that he was hosting for anything short of a true emergency (giving someone a ride is not an emergency.) That was unbelievably rude.

I think that you should feel very sorry for your friend.

In my house, we don't even answer the phone during dinnertime, even if its just us, and ESPECIALLY if there are guests.

That would be my suggestion.

As I see it, this was not about making you uncomfortable, Mnemonic, but about making his WIFE uncomfortable. Apparently he is not as TBM as his wife and they have NOT come to terms with their differences. He asked you to pray knowing that his wife would not like it; in short, he used you to irritate her.

Naturally you felt awkward and flustered at this inappropriate use of your friendship.

Would you feel comfortable talking with him about this, but without bringing his wife into it? "I'm not active (or not a member) any more, and I was surprised and unprepared when you asked me to say the blessing. I value our friendship and if there is anything I am unaware of that we need to discuss, I would like to give you this opportunity to bring up with me." Then let him have his say. If he claims that oh no, everything is just fine, then at least you will have a chance to let him know that you do not wish to be asked to bless the meal.

Good luck!

You probably wouldn't want to do this since it would put your female friend in an uncomfortable position. But why don't you have them over to your house for dinner and ask her husband to serve the wine? He'll say, "I cant, I'm Mormon." That's when you say, "But you have two hands, don't you?"

bezoar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You probably wouldn't want to do this since it
> would put your female friend in an uncomfortable
> position. But why don't you have them over to
> your house for dinner and ask her husband to serve
> the wine? He'll say, "I cant, I'm Mormon."
> That's when you say, "But you have two hands,
> don't you?"

Are you an atheist or do you still believe in a God, no matter what religion you are? Because I think if you are a non-believer, it was rude of him to ask you to pray but if you believe in God, it was actually very respectful of him to ask you. The message I would have gotten from it is that "the guy knows I'm not Mormon but doesn't think that makes me unworthy to pray." So many Mormons make NO acknowledgement that others religious beliefs are as valid as their own and would never ask anyone other than a Mormon to pray. By asking you to pray in his home, he thinks your prayers equal his own - something few Mormons would realize.

Now leaving an invited guest to give someone else a ride is terrible manners, unless the person needs a ride to the emergency room. The length of the ride and how long he was gone probably isn't relevant. The fact that he left at all is pretty boorish.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2010 12:30AM by CA girl.

It is always rude to ask another person to "pray" or say "grace" in a group setting in which refusing to honor that request by the one asked would make anyone present feel uncomfortable

ALWAYS... no exceptions

If your friend wanted a prayer said, he is the one that should have said it.

He was being a jerk, and he knew it.

I agree with lamedandy.He was tryin to make you feel stupid and should never have asked you to pray. Usually the host says the prayer so as not to put anyone on the spot.

that was very astute Cagirl.... i would not have thought of that! good observation.... but... when he left....with a son.... to give someone a ride....to me that is clearly disrespectful... he could have asked the person to wait a bit..and finished dinner and then excused himself.... it was rude... especially taking his son...he doesnt sound like a friend to me.....your old GF ..yes she is...but the hubby.... not so much!! :(

No - asking a guest - at the dinner table - who is known to not be of appropriate faith to make some sort of faith-based prayer isn't a good thing.

As a host, the rule is that you make your guest feel comfortable. That is about as blatantly uncomfortable a situation as you can get.

The fact that this husband insisted - after being corrected about Mnemonic's faith - that his demand (because it was no longer a request at that point) that Mnemonic do the blessing is obnoxious. It was a power play for embarrassment - either of Mnemonic or his friend.

kestrafinn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No - asking a guest - at the dinner table - who is
> known to not be of appropriate faith to make some
> sort of faith-based prayer isn't a good thing.
>
> As a host, the rule is that you make your guest
> feel comfortable. That is about as blatantly
> uncomfortable a situation as you can get.

Well....

He could have asked his guest to strip nekkid and then give the prayer. THAT would be about as blatantly uncomfortable a situation as you can get.

;>)

The guy is an oaf. You just gotta write off folks like that as impossibly rude and try to either avoid them or laugh them off.

But sometimes that's not enough to make you feel better.

Hope you can laugh about it someday.

saying "He's not mormon any more." was the b.s. part of the whole deal.


Wifey/friend is not much of a friend for blurting out "He's not mormon any more."

at least that's my point of view.

I'd be having a lot less to do with her in the future. since she thinks your prayers are not fit for her food.

power-hungry monster. Nobody pulls a stunt like that unless they want to embarrass you.

And leaving in the middle of a dinner engagement with no reason better than someone needed a ride somewhere is just plain unspeakably rude.

The man obviously needs some manners beaten into him. Why have you bothered to tiptoe around your friend's boorish husband? He sounds like he should be avoided at all costs.

Maybe there is no polite way of saying, "We don't want to associate with you anymore, now that you are an apostate."

Maybe that would be kinder in the long-run, that the idiotic, passive-aggressive behavior of your friend's husband.

Notice, that he is teaching his son to behave the same way. This is the way Mormons are instructed to behave toward apostates. Even Thomas Monson from the pulpit at General Conference preaches that apostate family members should not receive the same consideration as faithful family members. Your friend and her husband both are asked by their bishop in the TR interviews, "Do you associate with apostates or apostate groups?"

As painful as it is, you just have to let it go! You will be happier in the long run.

Please, remember, "IT IS NOT PERSONAL!" It is just cult business.

I didn't have a problem with what my friend said to her husband. She knows that I wasn't comfortable praying around other people even when I was mormon. I felt that she was attempting to stand up for me by telling him I don't pray anymore.

Thinking about it some more, I'm not sure I got her wording just right. It's been long enough I don't remember what she said word for word. I do remember his response to her, though. That stuck in my mind quite well.

I have a wicked sense of humour and can only think that you should have prayed - but to Heavenly Mother!

We have two Jons on here now, so I will switch to jon1.

Here are a few suggestions for being asked to give Blessings on food;

1. RUBADUB-DUB Bless this grub, amen!

2. Good food, Good meat, GOOD GOD LET'S EAT!

3. Over the lips, through the gums, look out stomach, here it comes.

4. "...If you are SO unsure about your cooking, that it needs a special blessing from God,..I'm going to McDonalds!"

5. Our heavenly father, blah blah blah, bless this food, yadda yadda yadda, oh, for christs sake amen.

6. "...OK, but first let's have a moment of silence for the Steer that sacrificed his life for this meal."

7. Heavenly Father, please make this food palatable. Yea, dear God stay with it through the digestive process, that it not make my bossum burn, or brigeth forth flatulents..."

8. "...Yes I better bless the food, because after I set up the table for you, I remembered I forgot to wash my hands the last time I dropped a deuce."

9. "Satan won't let me!"

10. Dear Joseph Smith, would you and Brother Brigham, please send down a special blessing on this food...

dang Jon1 that was funny ...especially #5!! :)

Men are just not that hard to figure out.

no we arent are WCG!! :)..food and fun(you know what kind) :) and we are good to go! :)

we ask you and all of your minions to bless this food and the hands that prepared it. Bless it that it will give us strength and sustenance (sp?) as we go about furthering your important work here on Earth"

Now wouldn't that have been fun??!!

His passive aggressive behavior was probably meant to send you a message, but it could be anything.

Maybe he and wifey are having a big fight and its all about her and has nothing to do with you.

The only part of the message you get is that he doesn't give a damn about your tiny part in his big important life.

Your future relationship with his wife should not include him in any way. You should consider keeping her at arms length too, maybe just emails that you know he will read.

Prayer? Oh, I would be honored. I will need to run to my car to get some tobacco and cedar to burn so we can purify ourselves. ... Oh, wait, my prayer ritual will take just under two hours, and we already caused things to run behind a bit. Maybe it would be best if one of 'yall do it, because if I tried to rush it, it would be very disrespectful to the Creator and the Great Mystery, and that definitely takes me out of my comfort zone. Thanks for thinking of me though.

A host should never make his/her guests feel awkward and put them on the spot like that.

Maybe you, and the rest of us, should commit to memory some sort of brief non-religious "blessing" such as:

(I especially like this one; it's for Thanksgiving but you could adapt it for any gathering):

Today may we appreciate this food and remember those who are hungry.
May we appreciate our family and friends and remember those who are alone.
May we appreciate our health and remember those who are sick.
May we appreciate the freedoms we have and remember those who suffer injustice and tyranny.
Peace on earth.

Good bread,
Good meat,
Why wait?
Let's eat!

"In sharing in this meal
let us be truly thankful
for the good things we have,
for the warm hospitality
and for this good company."
© Bill Logan 2001

Learn not to "wear your feelings on your shirt sleeve" as my "dad" used to say to me! :-)

It's over, it's in the past, let it go.

Some excellent advice I try to remember: Don't let your past mess up your present!

Live in the NOW. That is all we have anyhow!

... chicken-s**t TBM hubby doesn't have the balls to tell his wife or his guests that the situation makes him uncomfortable, so said chicken-s**t TBM hubby goes out of his way to make everyone else uncomfortable.

The blessing deal is one thing. Leaving your invited guests to take care of bulls**t ward business is just typical sorry-a** TBM behavior.

Of course, I don't live with or love mormons, so I don't have to defend their behavior.

Timothy

No thank you
I'd rather not

And I do like the idea about the tobacco and cedar....after all, there are so many other religions to choose from it's snobby to think yours is the only one.

If a similar situation ever comes up again where someone tries to bully you into doing something you don't want to do, say "no, thank you", or "I'm going to pass on that.'

If they press, just repeat yourself. Or move on to putting THEM on the spot. "WHAAAAT?" or "ExCUSE me?" or "you must be kidding" in a surprised or appalled tone gives them the chance to defend their request or withdraw it. Repeat as necessary.

Allowing someone to bully you into doing something you didn't want to do ("He still knows how to pray, doesn't he?") leaves a bad aftertaste for a LONG time (which is why you posted in the first place).

As a former doormat, I've caved into unreasonable requests/manipulation plenty of times. Sometimes it has been just because I was caught off-guard. Afterwards I resent the person who made the request and I'm also pretty pissed at MYSELF for letting them get away with it.

Frankly, the respect I lose for myself has bothered me the most. On the other hand, when I have handled things well, set firm boundaries or said "no", I feel GREAT afterwards. I also don't feel that resentment to the other person (I can't speak to how THEY feel about ME, but that is THEIR business).