So this evening around the house I started to get a little frisky with my ever so hot wife. As she opened up her robe her magic undies were revealed, and with within seconds all chance of any hanky-panky was lost if you know what I mean.

This is not usually as big a problem in the dark, but with the lights on...super yuck.

Since I was visibly repulsed it started a conversation/argument.

Her - What's wrong.
Me - those, those things just turn me off.
Her - But I made covenants ....
Me - They're ugly underware from the 1800's and remind me of those polygamist women.
Her- It's your fault I wear them. You asked me to marry you in the "frickin' temple" (yes, her words). You knew about them before me.

There is more to it. I just can't win. But like everyone here says...take it slowly. Little by little we chink away the armour.

Man, enjoy the couch! Talk about poor timing to bag on the religion...

My sympathies are with you...I've said much worse.

before he ditched the Jesus jammies. But dude-- seriously bad call on making your wife feel unsexy, humiliated, and defensive over her cult underwear. If my man pulled a stunt like that on me, I'd kick his ass to the curb.

You understand where she's coming from. You've been a believer. Have some mercy. Also, do something special to make up for it-- you may think you're chinking away the armour, but from my perspective it's more likely that you're wrecking your relationship.

I had a meltdown in front of one of my YW's counselor's for some reason. (I had a rough teen phase.) During the meltdown I told her that I was scared my future husband wouldn't find me attractive sexually because of the garments. She told me that she understood, but that you could still wear sexy underwear "on top of the garments."

...

Tiff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had a meltdown in front of one of my YW's
> counselor's for some reason. (I had a rough teen
> phase.) During the meltdown I told her that I was
> scared my future husband wouldn't find me
> attractive sexually because of the garments. She
> told me that she understood, but that you could
> still wear sexy underwear "on top of the
> garments."
>
> ...


I think I need to see a picture of someone doing this before I die! In my mind it looks hilarious!

Jaw dropper.... That would be 10x worse :P.

There is nothing wrong with telling her that those garments are a turn-off. They also make women look ugly.

If she cares enough how she looks to you she may eventually ditch them.

But it also wouldn't hurt to buy her a generous gift certificate to Victoria's Secret each time a birthday or special date rolls around.

so you battled them?
is this making sense?

if you want to be physically closer to anyone uh

you critisize them?

or you alienate them from you?

or you humiliate them as you critisize them?

and that makes them? uh? not getting it

ha! makes you feel better because uh what no. um makes you think better of yourself because uh well um not getting it

um ok because its likebad math you just did a problem with an illogical solution- if it was you wanted sexual physical contact and so you verbally rejected your wife and advances? you lost. you lost contact.

but if you actually did not want contact then you won.

wait its a battle. Its a battle?

then that means you are thinking you are with an enemy not a partner? and you are not allies in a fight against like death?

you are in a battle? and you are not counting your wife as in the same team the same troop the same squadron the same battalion or cruiser or company as yourself?

well that's really gonna work

uh with that objective you stated, sexual inter acting or was it sexual blame acting out- what was your objective again?


was what you were saying you can't be turned on near garments or bad clothing choices no matter what is under it or who is there
and right now you are so upset you think of anyone wearing them as an enemy you battle with in reality- because of their underware? no that can't be what you meant.

I liked the Victoria Secrete valentine's gift or Santa selection gift certificate suggestion earlier in the thread. uh but that depends on your objective. "enemy"? really? what objective did you have again?

I took a page from the previous thread about this subject. I make a point to tell DW every day that I love her and that she's beautiful. And in that ever so brief moment when I catch her naked on the way in and out of the shower, I lay it on really thick, and say something like, "You look really great naked." Maybe someday she'll get the hint.

I want my wife to wear those one-piece garments that my grandpa used to wear. TALK ABOUT SEXY!

Tell her the garments look good. But they would look even better on the floor.

Speaking of garments on the floor. This reminds me of another story. Going back about six years ago, one time me and my best friend were at a strip club. For those of you who have never been to Canada, at strip clubs it's pretty much anything goes. Anyway, I got this lap dance from this stripper and she reached down my pants and ripped off my gitch. Later that night my friend who went on a mission (returned early) got up on stage. If you put a $5 bill on your face they would pick it up with no hands. Anyway, he's up there (same stripper) she reaches down his pants and ripped his garments off and throughs them on the floor. We left that strip club with a pair of garments on the floor. Good times!

Love the story, but I am new to some of the slang on the forum. What exactly is a "gitch"? Is that garments?

In away.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gitch

I left before my wife and she was still the TBM in garments. I went to Victoria's Secret and bought several hundred dollars worth of panties and bras. I felt kind of silly but I was desperate. I then replaced my wife's garments in her dresser with the good stuff. She was a little pissed but loved it that I bought the bras she likes.

What I found is you have to replace the church with something better. Replace the meetings with quality fun family activities. Replace the garments with nice sexy colorful underwear.

I agree with the replacing idea. That's how my DH and Zi started out of the church. At first it was part of the meeting we would ditch. Evientually we stopped going all together.

"you mean you wouldnt have made those covenants if you hadnt married me? Heavenly Father probably has that on tape you know."


that was fun, now reality: her comment sounds like she feels a bit trapped in the garments now & then..you have to let her know that she is hot regardless but you can see the hotness better when she's naked.

peek at her in the shower and catcall, vocally admire alittle. my husband does this all the time and i LOVE it. i never get tired of him admiring me...it only takes a moment and i feel gorgeous for the rest of the day under my clothes.

I don't think you actually got to 'chink away at the armour'
you probably just made her more defensive

It's the mormon equivalent of saying 'you repulse me because you're fat' and thinking that you're helping her with a weight gain problem

...that when she has the interview with the Bishop for her next temple recommend, he will ask her if she wears the garments both "night and day." So suggest to her to wear the garments to church only (which covers the "day" part of it,) and one night a month (maybe when you're off bowling or something.) That way she can be truthful when she answers the Bishop's question.

Oh, and if she's wearing them when you are feeling frisky, just rip 'em off of her. Vent your negative feelings about the church on her garmies. ;-) And do make sure that her lingerie drawer is stocked with lots of Victoria's Secret. Their televised fashion show will be coming up soon...watch it with her.

of the garmies.

"I feel terrible about *my* reaction, but I can't seem to be able to help it. Yes, I wanted to be married in the temple. Yes, the garments were a condition of the agreement. They are turning out to be uglier than I ever anticipated at the time. even though you are beautiful and alluring. It's the garments that are causing a problem for me. Can we work something out to at least partially solve the problem?"

Sensible advice, Cheryl.


I've never revealed my inner feelings to DW on the subject:

1. a complete turnoff.
2. looks like something my grandmother might have worn.
3. Jesus Christ - does she imagine she is a wife of Joseph Smith?

This worked for me, won't work for everyone.

Every now and then I'd talk about how silly it is to wear pioneer underwear while we were both wearing them. I'd talk about how if JS was doing his thing in the 1900's, we'd be wearing some that didn't look like the 1800's.

When I needed new tops, I bought Hanes and still wore the mormon bottoms.

When she was used to that, I told her that she would look so much more sexy with regular panties, even if she still wore the tops.

She's now wearing panties, with the tops.

That's not chinking away the armor, Finance Clerk. That's just being cruel.

Her response is pretty clear that she doesn't like them either. There's no reason to humiliate her - nor make it clear that she's undesirable to you.

Women get enough of that crap everyday about not being sexy enough. In the Morg, it's even worse because it's the nature of the faith to make everyone feel bad and unworthy.

Could you just be honest, e.g., "Honey, I love you and I want to make love to you, but these silly ugly cult garments are standing between us"?

For many years, post sex, I would jump up and put back on the garmies. My wife thought this was totally weird, but I told her I felt naked without them (yeah, I know... Duh...)

Now in recovery I don't do this. Wife is happier. So am I.

But I agree that his response at the moment did not make him any points.

Here's my take on this whole thing. Men are visual, period. We get aroused visually, and want our companion to recognize that fact, and do something about it once in awhile. So compromise here is the best route, if she will listen.

I would try and convince her that there are times when G's don't have to be worn, especially in the privacy of your bedroom behind closed doors. I like the suggestions of buying some sexy lingere just for those occasions, so she can surprise you once in awhile. This works for some, but won't work if she thinks more of the church "rules" than she does of FC. That's where it went south in my marriage. I tried all of the suggestions above, some worked on an occasion or two, but I could tell that she was not comfortable out of those G's.

But there were larger issues than just the g's, it was her whole attitude towards intimacy, closeness, etc. When she initiated any physical contact, it was great. But when I did, then it was something dirty and nasty. I took this as all that guilt tripping that went on in her YW days. Sex is evil, nasty, dirty, and all men want is your body for their self-gratification. Then try and turn that attitude around once you get married. That the church intervenes in any way in a couple's intimate life is insidious.

Most men crave that visual tease that their spouse could give them, if she only would, on occasion. I think that is what FC is really getting at. His wife takes no initiative to get out of her G's once in awhile for him. So everytime he takes the intiative, he runs into the those ugly reminders that she is more interested in pleasing the "church" than pleasing him.

The only reason G's exist is to exert control. They were initially a sign that the person had been given the "new and everlasting covenant", plural marriage. But Moroni wasn't wearing them when he appeared to JS. Nor were God and Jesus when they appeared to him. Go read the first vision and the later ones where JS says they appeared to him wearing white robes that were open in front.

You won't get struck by lightning if you take them off. Most of us here are proof of that.

FC, I think you just need to find a time to talk to your wife about how g's make you feel. Express your love for her, how much you like to be with her and do things with her. Find a way to tactfully express your dislike of g's during those intimate times. But don't do it like you explained in your post, you ruined an intimate moment for her, too.

From her response, it doesn't appear that she is totally enamored of them either. Perhaps you can both agree that they have no place on date nights, or some other agreed upon times.

I'm curious what men do to make themselves more attractive to their women? Because that little insistence to "do something" works both ways. Men usually scoff at it, but women need the emotional attraction to be in the mood. That includes not being stressed out, not worrying about all of the things that need to be done, and knowing that their man will not be criticizing them for how they look or how they respond to sexual advances all the time.

My female friends and I have had discussions from time to time about sex, about our hangups and why we never seem to be good enough or having sex often enough to satisfy our respective spouses, and we've come to some conculsions:

Many women, regardless of faith, have been raised in a "women who have sex are sluts" mentality since childhood. It can be difficult to overcome, and the requests many men make can be extremely uncomfortable (and borderline pornstar-ish)- which doesn't excite the woman, and often does the complete opposite - it makes sex a necessary chore. Almost all of us felt like we were frequently not respected as equal partners in the sexual relationship. We didn't do enough, or we don't initiate enough, or something else is wrong and it greatly effects our libidos.

I know I'm not naturally an initiator for sex. I am naturally just a more submissive personality. When I've tried to initiate it, my husband usually moves too fast for me and overwhelms me, leaving me upset and feeling incredibly vulnerable as he starts snoring on the other side of the bed.

Good Grief. You want to be intimate and you tell her she is not attractive? What ARE you thinking?

As a woman, I'd suggest you ignore the underwear.It's not yours anyhow.It's just fabric. It's her choice to wear it. The more you harp on it the more she makes it your fault she is wearing it.

At a different time, show her something in a magazine, or on TV that you'd like to suggest she wear, sometime.
I don't get this fanatical garment wearing. I sure didn't engage in it. In fact, I recall a message (someplace, probably RS) that it was wise to have some "intimate apparel".

Find out what she likes, and get her something that you would like her to wear!

"I left before my wife and she was still the TBM in garments. I went to Victoria's Secret and bought several hundred dollars worth of panties and bras. I felt kind of silly but I was desperate. I then replaced my wife's garments in her dresser with the good stuff. She was a little pissed but loved it that I bought the bras she likes.

What I found is you have to replace the church with something better. Replace the meetings with quality fun family activities. Replace the garments with nice sexy colorful underwear."

I really like that idea-

You could even take it a step further, and give her a new name along with the sexy underwear-you know, make it a ritual-
"Dear wife, by virtue of the fact that I am your husband, I place in your drawer this new sexy underwear. These you should wear throughout the most fertile period of your menstrual cycle, when you are really horny and want me. Inasmuch as you do defile this underwear on a nightly basis with me, it will be a blessing and a protection to you and this marriage. With this underwear, I give you a new name. Your name shall be "Oh, god, oh god, oooohhh, god!"

1) Try some role play: Pretend she is the MP's wife, and you're having an intense affair with her. Secret, sacred, and sexy baby..yeah you know it.

2) You've heard of a bag over the face, try a body bag instead.

3) Secretly stain the garmies, spill catsup on them, stain them with crazy colors. When she asks just say, "I have no idea...OMG this is crazy, I'm so sorry" etc.

4) Tell her you prayed about this, and the spirit told you that she needed to stop wearing them at night because the Lord is worried about intimacy in the marriage. In other words, until the marriage is stronger, Heavenly Father has prescribed naked, "cuddle time" for his favorite couple. Just say, "Hey, it's not me, I mean I like the garmets, its God. I am the patriarch. I must follow the spirit in this."

5) Get your buddy to dress up like the Angel Moroni. Have him appear to her one night at 3:00am, with a drawn sword, commanding her to stop wearing the garmies, "even as the prophet Joseph instructed the brethren at Nauvoo when it was necessary."

6) Put moth balls in her garmie drawer when she's away for the day, then retrieve them just before she comes home. Those things stink to high heaven (no pun intended).

I LOVE IT!

Several years ago, when I was still a TBM (as was DW, who still is), I realized I had never seen my own wife in just a bra and panties (we had been married 10 years+ at the time), and I told her that.

She was cool about it, and a couple of days later, took off the dumb G's one night and just paraded about in her bra and panties. Kinda silly when you think about it....10 years of marriage, and that was the first time I had seen her like that.

Dude, I'm going on 16 years of marriage and I've never seen my DW like that.

So what have you done for HER lately? Not what you want, what SHE wants.

In such matters, the carrot usually works better than the stick. Also, bad idea to use the "U" word (ugly) when speaking to a female.

Good luck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2010 04:16PM by dr5.