asked a Christian why Mormons aren't Christians a few years back because I really didn't understand the whole concept of the trinity. I now see both sides of the argument since Geebus is rather central to both mythologies. Mormons make Geebus mortal so Joe can be elevated to the same level of near-godlike status while Christians believe Geebus is literally God himself. That's a rather huge distinction Mormons just don't understand.
Personally, it just seems like a way to split hairs in an argument to give one mythology more credence than another.
JUST KEEP YOUR FREAKING MOUTHS CLOSED! (And keep your internet devices locked up too!)
When it comes to trying to convince "the world" on the legitimacy of your religion, your best bet is to say and do NOTHING. You just keep digging the pit deeper.
Read the comments section--0 favorable out of 12 (so far)!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2010 04:42PM by Fetal Deity.
While keeping their mouths shut would be great for many purposes; if they really want to be taken as Christians, they should probably act more like Christians. Show the rest of the "Christians" what kinds of good they can do in the world with the poor, the sick, and the needy without patting themselves on the back for it all the time.
But because that sure as shit isn't going to happen...well, they can keep crying about it then.
They believe that (their version of Christ their "elder brother") was a polygamist on Earth and in heaven, and that God is a polygamist in heaven.
Polygamy is alive and well, and on-going in the Mormon religion.
My ex-husband has three temple wives. Our TBM neighbor across the street has two temple wives Dallin Oaks and Russel Nelson have two temple wives And on and on it goes--just look at TBM's all around you.
Mormons believe in a Jesus as defined by Joe Smith. Others are "Biblical Christians" who believe in a Jesus as described in the bible.
There is a difference.
If Mormons are Christians then are FLDS Mormons?
Mormons claim the FLDS are not mormons because they have different beliefs and yet they want to be called Christians even though their belief in Jesus differs.
The argument that "God had the ability anciently to call holy prophets not only to teach his children living in Israel but also holy prophets to teach his children living on the American continent."
The missionaries always use the God loves everyone so if he called people to be prophets in Israel and there were people in the America's i.e. the indians and he loved those people as well then he would have given them prophets and the gospel as well right?
The problem is with DNA testing now apologists have to accept a limited geography theory (technically they should be accepting a no geography theory). Essentially they have to say that the lamanites and the nephites were among people that immigrated from asia from the bering strait and that they were not the principal ancestor of the native american's but only among them. The problem with this is, what happened to all these asian people's prophets? Why didn't they get scriptures? Its pretty selfish of the freakin Nephites to not share their holy books and prophets. Those selfrighteous jerks!
the millions and millions that lived and died during the so-called Dark Ages ("Mormon Dark Ages" = approximately A.D. 200/300 to A.D. 1830). Where was "God's love" for them?!?!?!
You guys seem awfully hostile toward the baby Jesus. I suppose you went from arrogant, know-it-all mormons, to arrogant, know-it-all atheists! How totally funny.
If it makes you feel better, forget about "Christians" per se and just read what Jesus is attributed to actually saying. Look at Mathew, Mark Luke and John. Read it. (I mean, actually read all of it.) It might take a couple of hours.
Putting aside "Christianity," how could you have a problem with what he taught?
helamonster Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How about "I come not to bring an olive branch, > but a sword". > > That's the "Prince of Peace"? > > Badger John, you are pathetic. > > And your appeal to "baby Jesus" is laughable, > overt, attempted emotional manipulation. Stop it. > I'm no longer a 3rd grader.
You must have been one of those especially arrogant know-it-all TBM's I was talking about. (CRINGE) No, probably a closet mormon, too "offended" to return to the ward? Now a great scientist atheist! LOL!
You KNOW you're wrong BJ. You know it. Scoff all you want. Arrogance is assuming the Bible is "truth" when there's absolutely no more evidence to back it up than there is for the BoM. Meaning specifically, YOUR beliefs are arrogant.
And I will have a nice day in spite of you. I don't require your permission.
Okay, Helamonster, calling you a closet mormon was probably a low blow, and for that I apologize.
My point is this: It is agreed that what you knew and believed before is completely wrong, yet you were nonetheless fooled for a period of time, maybe a long time. Given that you were fooled before, how do you now know that what you believe about atheism is correct?
After the thorough brainwashing you had, I am not the least bit surprised that you became an atheist. The false "truth" you knew and believed before is really hard to eliminate in how you subconsciously think about things now. Ask a shrink. Your heart (and brain) say, "If the morman god is not true then they are all not true." You do not know that.
As an Atheist, I don't "know" if there actually is a god as I have no real evidence to that effect.
As a Theist, you also don't "know" if there actually is a god as you likewise have no real evidence to that effect.
So let's boil it down to belief:
Atheist: "I dont believe there is a god because I have no real evidence to that effect."
Theist: "I believe there is a god because I have no real evidence to that effect."
Maybe its just me, Badger John, but if I were in your shoes, I might take a hard look at the veracity of my own beliefs before stacking them up against others.
Brainwashed, indeed!
Honest intellectual inquiry and critical thinking leads most folks out of the mormon cult. Apply those skills to any other religion and the result will likely be the same.
Proving mormonism false (easy to do, by the way) does nothing to bolster the credibility of any other faith.
Timothy
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2010 09:18AM by Timothy.
"What he is attributed to actually saying" is really difficult to discern. It would have been great if Jesus had written down what he actually said instead of letting others do it years after the fact in a fairly dubious manner and then letting religions copy and tweak it over the centuries.
Sure, there are some really "great" things that Jesus "taught" about loving each other and forgiveness, caring for the sick and needy, not rejecting society's "outcasts," the golden rule; but then there are a lot of other things about Jesus's divinity, super powers, hellfire and eternal destruction, and (according to a lot of early translations) slavery. Yup that's right. The early texts don't have the word "servant" but use the word "slave."
That's where people can have legitimate problems with Jesus's teachings.
raptorjesus Wrote, in part: -------------------------------------------------------
> Sure, there are some really "great" things that > Jesus "taught" about loving each other and > forgiveness, caring for the sick and needy, not > rejecting society's "outcasts," the golden rule;
And these teachings are not unique to Jesus, they can be found in the teachings of many culture's throughout history.
Just because a religion can take a humanitarian message taught in any secular society and say it came from their god doesn't mean I'm going to take the religion seriously. How does one discern from the good things said, and the bigoted things said if it all comes from the same god? You provide people with a good message and the thinking--or illiterate--ones ignore all the crap the same book spews.
Great post Badger. If Mormons only accept parts of the Bible and they do - saying they believe only that which was translated correctly, then that right there makes them NOT Christian. They reject many of the Christian teachings. They so want to be Christian. Won't happen. Sorry. You just can't pick and choose.
Funny, isn't it, how Mormons get bent out of shape when others define Christian in a way that excludes them but feel justified in defining Mormon in a way that excludes the FLDS (who are actually practicing a form of Mormonism closer to JS than the mainstream LDS).
Stray Mutt Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ...a white suburban kid with dreadlocks who smokes > weed is a Rastafarian.
That needs to be archived! That's brilliant, is that! :o))
How about putting it over at the Salamander Society?
I'll let them call themselves Christians when they don't get all bent out of shape when all the polygamous groups call themselves Mormons, or the media or other people refer to those groups as Mormons.
If they can realize that the same feelings they have and why they don't want those groups calling themselves (or being referred to by others) as Mormon, are the same feelings many mainstream Christians feel when Mormons call themselves Christian, they will understand how many mainstream Christians bristle at Mormons calling themselves Christian.
Mormons are Christian because Paul wrote that whether Christ was preached in pretense or in truth, good. And Jesus himself said that wherever two or more are gathered, there he is in the midst of them.
But that makes the playing field pretty expansive. The Mormon Religion can be proven to be an invention of Joseph Smith in the early 19th-century - Christianity can probably be debunked as a marriage of Jewish and Pagan myths along with the Zeitgeist of conquered peoples who hated the Roman occupation.
But the message of Christ isn't about hellfire and damnation - it's about giving people the benefit of the doubt. Samaritans couldn't possibly be good people in the 1st century, and a ton of what Jesus talks about is that they actually could be - or are. Just like Mormons couldn't possibly be Christian - but what if they actually could be - or are?
Leeroy, your are using faulty logic. That someone preaches "Jesus" does not make them a Christian, when the Jesus preached bears no true resemblance to the actual Jesus. It is a false imposter Jesus that is being preached.
Maybe we could use a little deductive reasoning to establish the point.
Premise 1: Christians believe Jesus is God. Premise 2: Mormons believe Jesus is not God.
Conclusion: Mormons are not Christians.
You cannot reach any other conclusion. Christians and Mormons are mutually exclusive.
Jesus the Christ hung out with hookers and the lowly people of the city. He drank and hung out while his followers worked. He had long hair and wore flip flops. He preached love and did not want your money. He would make fun of all the mormon rituals and ordinaces due to the lack of understanding of his message.
If he walked the earth today the Mormons would not let him get baptized and if per chance he was baptized they would excommunicate him.
Would a Christian excommunicate the Christ? A mormon would..