I have heard of strict evangelical christians claiming the bible instructs parents not to spare the rod or spoil the child.Some people take this too seriously and beat their children very badly.

I Gordon Hinckley spoke out against sucha belief.

I know some Mormon might punish their children with a belt.

What do people here know about any Mormon beating their children badly?

And I've never heard of any of my siblings spanking their kids. That doesn't mean they didn't, it's just that "spare the rod, spoil the child" never came up as proper child rearing.

On the other hand, I know of LDS kids who were not only spanked, but beaten.

I'm guessing the LDS attitude on spanking is as diverse as the rest of society since the church doesn't have a big child discipline culture.

willow branches, leather belts and that damn hot wheels track was painful. It left parallel welts two inches apart.

You could prove you had a Hotwheels set if your friends doubted you, all ya had to do was lift your shirt. Though the welts looked pretty weird if the track had that connector tab in the end.

I was raised in the the 1960's and 70's and got the belt, hot wheel tracks and electrical cords! Totally with welts and all. AND I was a very good kid!! My siblings got it a lot more often.

We mostly endured the abuse from our TB mother who had lots of mental health issues (brought on by her pedophile father, poor self esteem, the over production of children (8 total + one miscarriage near term), and all of the worthlessness she felt comparing herself to other women who had member husbands and therefore "support" from their husbands, etc. Very sad person!

I've almost never felt the need to spank any of my 5 children. Four are completely grown and I think I could probably count on one hand the number of times I ever had to use physical means to attempt to control them. They were all raised while my husband and I were TBM.

My parents were both physically abusive. My older siblings got it way worse than I ever did, but my mom was still smacking us with yard sticks and slapped me across the face a few times when I was 10.

I don't necessarily think this is just a Mormon thing- My parents were raised in the time that it was perfectly acceptable to beat your kids if they acted out, not that I excusing it.

that really shows because her hair is brown, she got it when she was about ten. She says "I guess I must've smarted off" and her mom hauled off and let her have it with a big old hairspray can. It bled all over and later on the hair grew back blond. She thinks it'll turn gray soon.

No, they do it perfectly. It's a time honored tradition handed down from generation to generation. By the time a young couple has their own family they are already familiar with the fine art of hitting children. Always use an open hand when hitting the face, and when using a willow, belt, stick, flyswatter handle, hand saw or any other item that draws blood or raises bruises or welts, make sure it is high enough that it doesn't show when wearing gym shorts in PE.
When I was a kid the main danger was other kids making fun of you, but today the teachers may very well rat you out to the cops, and theat really pisses off the parents.

Are we trying to say that Mormons whip their kids more than non-mormons? Or are we trying to say that Mormons shouldn't whip 'em at all because it's unseemly for a Mormon to do that?

The reason I ask is that there are many non-Mormons that beat the shit out of their kids, so it's not abnormal, just wrong.

Ron

I don't think we are saying that mormons are worse than any other group, just commenting on a familiar theme from a common mormon background.

As kids we had Primary on a Tuesday and Mutual on a Thursday, then you had school and church, all of which gave us kids in the community several opportunities throughout the week to see new bruises and new welts on each other. We also did not have as much contact with the nonmember kids, so it is hard to judge how often they had new marks.

It is a prevelant problem across the world. Interestingly, it seems that the mormons seemed much less supportive of the Gentiles desire to make kidhitting as reportable crime. In the nineties when teachers were required to report any suspicion of abuse, I heard several mormon parents bemoaning the intrusion into private lives.

In a way, I think it has to do with the beloved persecution/member missionary mindset where anything that might reflect poorly on the church in any way must be avoided.

To be fair, only those who are against these measures are those who fear being found out.

hell at 12 i was punched in the face for not getting the expected grades! well i coulda done better.....but a punch that had me do backward sumersaults? he used a belt....mostly!

Funny you should mention that. My Dad beat the shit out of us..both with fist and with a razor strop. The first time my wife (ex now) met him, he bragged about how he broke a bone in his hand punching me in the head. Made her cry. My dad was an asshat.

Just sayin'...

Ron

he was trying to convey to your ex that he was proud of you man!
yup ya took your beating like a man!!!
OY VAY!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2011 12:58PM by bignevermo.

Abuse of somme kind starts from the top its only normal it filters down to the bottom.

I grew up military and my dad used to 'whale the tar' out of us kids with a wooden spoon. It didn't keep us from misbehaving, we just made sure our parents didn't catch us again.

I didn't spank my kids--but dh and I did expect them to behave and let them know it. And my kids have never been called into the principal's office, let alone suspended or stopped by the police, etc.

I think the point is how you handle discipline--hitting someone just because you are bigger is neither just nor fair, and it certainly isn't discipline. It's punishment.

That's not a particularly Mormon thing. I've noticed people in the south tend to spank more than those in the north. I think it's a cultural thing.

PS: I have no respect for Christians who use the 'spare the rod' argument from scripture. It's Old Testament and if they understood Jewish Law and the context from which that passage was drawn, they would know that it addressed the father and his son. And the father had no jurisdiction over his son's training until his son reached the age of 13. Prior to that, the mother was responsible. Then, if the son did not comply with the father's commands, the father was exhorted to use a 'rod' (directions on how to make one are included in the Law, along with how long a baby should be nursed, when a boy should have his first hair cut and lose the babyclothes, etc. Very specific on family matters is Jewish Law) and when and how to apply it. Age 13, folks. Nowhere is permission given to beat up a baby, toddler or young child.

I think it depends on the family, too.

My dad's father was a Jack Mormon closet alcoholic. He regularly beat my father so badly that when he was an adult he had to have surgery to repair his nose so that he could breathe properly.

My dad didn't ever hit us, but when raging he would often threaten to, and tell us how lucky we were that he didn't. My mother slapped me a few times, but preferred to hold me down and immobilize me until I complied. Both left scars from emotional abuse.

MIL grew up in a serious spanking household, and so DH got a wooden spoon when he was particularly naughty.

With my kids, I decided that a couple of quick swats as a last resort was much better then being constantly threatened. If they do something that puts them or others in danger, I will spank them, but I would never, ever use anything other then my open hand. It's a last shot effort for me, after talking about it, time-outs, and taking away privileges haven't worked.

SIL doesn't spank, and is horrified that I do. Her oldest is an angry little preschooler, though...she goes around and around with him and it doesn't even seem to faze him. I wonder what will happen when he's a teenager.

I don't think mormons spank their children more than other religious groups. But I do think it's likely that, overall, the incidence of abusive discipline techniques is higher in ultra-religious communities.

Pharyngula Freethought has an ongoing discussion, posted today, about "Tough Love Thuggery under Jesus' loving hands."
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/08/17/tough-love-thuggery-under-jesus-loving-hands/

Good times!

My dad was a complete asshat with a bad temper. We weren't mo'mo's. My dad used his fists and a razor strop. He didn't beat hell out of us all the time, but when he did, RUN!

The first time my wife (now ex) met him, he bragged about having broken a bone in his hand beating me in the head. I doubt there a mo'mo's in large numbers that do shit like that, but what do I know?

Fucktard.

Ron

My mother claims that as a small child I was spanked a lot (by my mom), but I don't remember it at all. I probably needed a bit of "waking up" because to this day I'm a bit, I don't know, slow to follow directions.

My father returned from WW2 a pacifist, and I don't beleive he ever spanked any us kids.

In general, although TBM to this day and both from pioneer stock, my parents were kind and seemed more interested in bringing us up to be happy and sucessuful rather than obedient.

I don't know about Mormons doing that. I can't think of a single news article off of the top of my head about Mormon parents getting in trouble for that.

It is cultural. My mother was from a big Columbian family. She hit me and my sister on the bare behind with my dad's leather belt, which I used to hide under the bed. I was five. Abruptly, she stopped.

Then, when I was fourteen, I called my father "Buster" (because I heard it in a movie, "Listen, Buster....") He whacked me really hard on the buttocks, which felt strangely really good, so I laughed. It was first arousal experience.

In my own Nazi Mormon household, I used hot wheel tracks on the little boys' bottoms and the backs of their legs. I stopped it when my third boy said to me (when he was four), "You wouldn't do that if you knew how bad it stings." I was suddenly filled with memories of my mother and fears that, yes indeed, I was becoming her and forgetting what it was like to be a child and be afraid.

I switched to a paddle in the seventies but looked the other way when the girls stuffed newspaper into their pants--I could always spot the guilty party by the bulges. I told the kids I had eyes in the back of my head, under my hair, and they used to look for the eyes when I was driving.

There is a lot of pressure on Mormon mothers to control children, especially on Sundays. It's like a competition and mothers trade "tips" in Relief Society. I used Binaca breath spray (which stings) on kids in church who misbehaved.

The church had people who wrote books and spoke gave advice on using humiliation, peer pressure, fear of hell, fear of being separated from family in eternity, isolation, darkness as symbol of outer darkness, etc. I acted against my own motherly instinct and I regret it to this day. I am sure it cost me my relationship with my oldest son.

In those days parents were all afraid our children would become "hippies" if we let them do anything different than Mormon missionary look. And you were judged if your kids were listening to rock music, had long hair, played Nintendo, etc.

People think the old days were more fun being Mormon, but I don't think it was much fun at home for kids in big families whose parents listened to leaders' bad advice about child discipline.


Anagrammy

We were beaten severely by our TBM mother, slapped on an almost daily basis and emotionally abused constantly. I remember my mom beating my brother with a broom handle until it broke. He had giant welts all over his back. My dad worked long hours and was away on business a lot. He's the one we all loved (and still do).

Abuse was also rampant in other families in the ward. The bishop was a high ranking police officer who was able to quash any investigations by CPS.

Mother used the church to rationalize her actions.
No wonder I've felt hatred towards the corporation from an early age.

I dont' think it's a matter of religion. It's just the way parents were back then. My father did things to us, and my (ex)husband's father did things to his kids that people would be arrested and put in jail for today.

When we were in the military, we were "friends" (acquaintances with common warped religious beliefs) with a couple who were very physically abusive with their kids. She carried a wodden spoon, spatula and other things in her purse and had them out all the time using them on her kids, wherever she went. My heart bled for them sometimes, it was bad (yes, I should have tried to get them help, but I was too timid then). They ended up with 5 kids and I thought they'd all probably run away from home. Turns out I was wrong. I found her on Facebook (had no desire to connect) but her wall and all is visible and it was obvious that they are very close with all their kids. Mine, on the other hand think they had such a poor unfortunate childhood and treat me like shit. Since trying not to treat them the way my dad treated us got me nowhere, if I had it to do over again, I'd probably beat the hell outta them.

Reminds me of when Benny Hill was asked, "Does it hurt bad?" And he answered, "You ever hear of anything that hurt good?"

Seriously, I would guess that Mormon kids are probably beaten a lot less now than in the past. (Damn 'em with faint praise).

Oh. Sorry. I see what you mean! ;o))

Actually, I was spanked. And I usually deserved it.

was her giant rubber soled velour slipper.

My lord, but she would get me in a corner and that burgandy thing would just be a-coming and a-coming!

In my family my TBM mother rarely spanked. My nevermo father did though. I grew up in the 50s when physical discipline was more common than it is today.

"The church had people who wrote books and spoke gave advice on using humiliation, peer pressure, fear of hell, fear of being separated from family in eternity, isolation, darkness as symbol of outer darkness, etc"

Where can I go to read any of this material? I'm very interested.

Thanks. Gab