It's done all the time by countless happy, functional people around the world who, as Clarence Darrow observed, don't believe in god because they don't believe in Mother Goose. (For evidence of that, read the book by the humanist chaplain at Harvard University, Greg M. Epstein, "Good Without God: What a Billion Nonreligious People Do Believe" [New York: William Morrow, 2009])

There always is, of course, the magical mindset crowd like Badgered John who, as easy pickins for superstition over science, come to RfM issuing Sunday School-level air raid siren alerts of "THE END IS COMING! THE END IS COMING!"

BJ can't seem to comprehend why I don't take him seriously as he continues to follow me around the board rotely repeating silly questions that he learned from a book of fairy tales otherwise known as the Bible.

All that needs to be said in response is this (and I'm only going to say this once, Badgered John, because I really have better things to do so please listen up):

You'd better watch out,
You'd better not cry,
You'd better not pout,
There's bells in the sky!
Santa Christ is coming to town!

He's making his list,
Like Jesus Christ,
He's gonna find out who's naughty or nice,
Savior Claus is coming to town!

He knows when you've been sleeping,
He knows when you're awake.
He knows you'll bend your knee to him,
Or in Hell you'll surely bake!

So, you'd better watch out,
You'd better not cry,
It's time to bow or you will fry,
Santa Christ is coming to town!


As I drew it up for a bus sign that made the rounds in various U.S. cities:

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID8947/images/virginia(1).jpg
_____


Now, where were we? :)



Edited 12 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2010 09:27PM by steve benson.

Using quotes from a book I don't believe, expecting me to react like someone who believes the book? Yeah, that'll work. Sort of like quoting the Koran to a Christian.

Threatening me with hell when I don't believe hell exists? Also not effective. Same with promising me a paradise when I die when I don't believe in an afterlife.

How can the evangelical movement be so clueless?

If someone is willing to look into the history of the mormon church, and see it for the crock it is, I dont understand why they dont go the extra mile and look into the history of the biblical deity(s).

Ex-mo christians should be willing to question their beliefs a little more closely than the average happy-clappy christian believer.
Christianity is built on Judaism... so, if the OT is a crock, then the NT is a crock also... do you agree?
do you know the roots of The biblical names.... Jehovah (YHWH), Elohim, Baal?
do you know the roots of the biblical fairy stories.... creation, the flood?
Do a little digging and the results may surprise you

I would be very interested in more information on the origin of the flood story.

Please provide some more details?
Cheers

Or "flood story origins."

Gligamesh

appears to be a fine dining establishment over here in London...

although that may be a great place to start!

Here is a link for a Yale professor who disects the Hebrew Bible. She does a good job. She covers the origins of the flood story, the creation story, the documentary hypothethis, etc.

http://oyc.yale.edu/religious-studies/introduction-to-the-old-testament-hebrew-bible/content/downloads

evolution Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is a link for a Yale professor who disects
> the Hebrew Bible. She does a good job. She
> covers the origins of the flood story, the
> creation story, the documentary hypothethis, etc.
>
> http://oyc.yale.edu/religious-studies/introduction
> -to-the-old-testament-hebrew-bible/content/downloa
> ds


I HIGHLY recommend spending the time to download and watch/listen. Among other things, it shows how Christian biblical literalists (who tend to be the most annoying or even dangerous types) are WAY off the mark.

It also shows how biblical beliefs were a huge break from the prevailing world views, particularly when it comes to the origins of evil and human responsibility for morality. For example, the previous view was that man was a helpless bystander, a victim of the gods' shenanigans. Shit happened because the god's made it happen. But the biblical view is that God created a good world and humans messed it up. Shit happens because you make it happen, so it's your job to fix it. Interesting.

Of course, along with that shift in perspective, the view of humans changed from being created only to serve as slaves to the gods, to one as man as the whole reason the universe existed. Woo-hoo! We're hot shit! Personally, I think that's one reason why believers are resistant to letting go of God. No God means they don't matter.

Anyway -- go watch/listen.

I would encourage you to read Duane E. Jeffrey's "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions," (Sunstone, October 2004, pp. 27-45).

"Jeff" (as he is known to his pals) is a long-time and personal friend of mine whose research into the subject of organic evolution, as well as into other issues pertinent to Mormon history and doctrine, is extensive, unsurpassed and compelling.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2010 09:53AM by steve benson.

Cheers Steve

It's about the happy (or scary) fantasy they have in their heads in the here and now. Everyone paints a picture in their mind, entangled with ideals, emotions, relationships, culture, etc. That becomes their actual religion to them. Only a tiny portion of the religious population are scholars, theologians or otherwise curious about why they believe what they believe. Most folks just go with some variation of what they were raised with.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2010 08:57AM by Stray Mutt.

- that it would be like them trying to convince themselves that santa was real, and to live life accordingly. Gawds, and santa & co. are like alien viruses to the internal operating system of my consciousness. I was born just fine, and didn't need the indoctrination. I have no "need" to believe in something magical; reality, and reason are NORMAL.

People who cannot comprehend how a life without gawd can be happy, and meaningful, are still brainwashed, and their lives are defined, and ruled by the dogma they happen to be indoctrinated with, i.e. the popular deity of the culture, and family they were born into.

Someone classified the basic groups of these "viruses":

Jeezus, and the thousands of other gawds are represented by the Odin branch in the Santa Claus Family Tree.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qXcRUWD1NVc/SzCYfISnw1I/AAAAAAAABD0/LUVWNEX77U0/s1600-h/santa+family+tree.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2010 12:27AM by atheist&happy:-).