So, something I expected to happen finally happened last night and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I converted to mormonism (pre-girlfriend) made it about 6 months, and then started questioning things. I found this site and it was over. There is absolutely no way I could be convinced that the church is true now. 0%.

I started dating this girl a few months after conversion, she was BIC to TBM family but didnt attend while younger, we started dating.Fast forward 2 1/2 years, we are living together and all is well as far as I know. She even moved to the city I live in to live with me. Her parents like me (although they dont know about the living together but they know I dont go to church anymore.)

Last night, out of no where she was hysteric. Said that she loved me, wanted to marry me but of course there was one huge problem. She would eventually want to go to church and I would not. I told her she was welcome to go but I would not go back, nor would any children we have. Ive shown her all the evidence I have, and she pretty much told me even if it is not true it makes her feel good and thats all that matters......

I expressed my concern was that if we had kids I wouldnt want them feeling guilty all the time, and she asked me why not? She said that somethings they should feel guilty about. Such as having sex without being married (even though shes 22.)

This is really the first girl that I've been in love with and that I've dated who I've felt was my best friend. But I'm not sure what to do...I love her and would let her go if that makes her happy...but I feel like I'm doing her an injustice if she becomes a molly and I dont try to convince her otherwise (despite what happens with our relationship).

I'm just confused I guess. On the one hand I want to keep her around and "save her" from it, but on the other I want to let her go and figure it out herself. Im just afraid she wont.

Just ranting, thanks for reading.

Two and a half years with your "best friend" and it looks like you were running on a lot of unspoken assumptions. Why ask potentially touchy questions that might spoil the good times, right?

So now you're at a crossroad. Good thing it happend now instead of after marriage and some children.

For what it's worth, you usually can't change someone's beliefs until they're willing to change them. If her beliefs make her feel good, then she'll continue to believe until such time they make her feel bad. You can't fight that.

You might have to walk away from this one.

what is she really saying here? "even if it is not true it makes her feel good and thats all that matters......"

So, you don't matter to her. Your future kids don't matter to her. The only thing that matters to her is being aligned with her family's belief system.

I experienced a similar thing when I was 23. My GF at the time and I were both BIC, but inactive, practically living together but the pressure from our families was non-stop. It was insane. "Stop having sex, get married in the temple, then you can have sex again." - madness. We went our seperate ways, she got married a few months after our breakup. 8 years later she was divorced and out of the church again.

I guess what I'm saying is: If you've shown her your evidence, you've expressed your concerns and you've shown her that she is more important to you than any religious belief...you've done all you can.

She's chosen the church over you.

There would be a thousand more conversations that would feel even worse. You have bonded with her, and live without her would be difficult and painful, but you would eventually find another who was more compatible on religion.

If you have kids with her, it's guaranteed that you will have a thousand more of these conversations that feel even worse.

Dating is all about choosing a compatible mate. It's a sifting process of finding out if you both are compatible on big things that will really matter in your life. You can bond with many who are not compatible. Dating is to find one with whom you are compatible.

Marry someone with whom you are not compatible with on some big issues, and you will regret it, no matter how much you have bonded.

Dating is all about finding out the things you are now finding out. This is normal, and is supposed to be happening.

there a few key commonalities that help to be in place, the biggy being financial perspective probably. For instance, if one is thrifty, and the other is a spender - it will probably cause huge problems post honey moon period.

Religion is a commonality that is requisite when the religion is an intregal part of one's life such as in mormonism. The fact that she is a TBM and you are not spells major trouble down the line - and you would probably divorce after a year or so. What you don't want to happen is to have children, and struggle through 5 or more years of marriage, and then divorce her.

There many couples who have different religions, and the marriage works but it is because they do not view religion as a critical part of the couples sociospiritual existence. Most TBM's are programmed into believing that their spouse MUST be a TBM or else all is lost. Dude, there are many fish in the sea. I wouldn't marry her. We all know what it like to be in love. Your are smitten with her. However, have the courage to break it off, and move on. You'll find someone else. Seriously, take it from one who's been there. Married for 20 plus years, found out Mormonism was a FALSE cult, and we divorced. Five kids.

thanks for all the advice. I know what I need to do I guess, I just dont want to do it.

I think the worst part is that I truly feel bad for her if she goes back. Shell follow the typical path of dating someone, getting married in 2 months so they can have sex and it will be OK and then being stuck.

Life just makes me sad sometimes in general I guess.

It's hard to do, but it seems you definitely know what needs to happen.

Remember in this case - it's not fair to either of you in this relationship. She's definitely entitled to what she wants from life, as are you.

So breaking it off is actually a show of respect - that you recognize that her faith is important to her (even if you don't agree with it).

Nothing wrong with just taking a break either. Maybe get some time to see if she changes her mind about at least compromising.

You never know. After some space she may come back and choose you over the corporation.

She may not, and that'll be very painful. Sorry about the situation though.

You can't change other people, only yourself, nor do you have any responsibility to get her out of her religion.

Just because you changed your mind, doesn't mean someone else will.

It sounds like this is her traditional, familial, religious culture and that is the core of who she is.

Time to move on. She has made it clear she is not what she wants for her lifetime mate.

SusieQ#1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can't change other people, only yourself, nor
> do you have any responsibility to get her out of
> her religion.
>
> Just because you changed your mind, doesn't mean
> someone else will.
>
> It sounds like this is her traditional, familial,
> religious culture and that is the core of who she
> is.
>
> Time to move on. She has made it clear she is not
> what she wants for her lifetime mate.

It's amazing how many concerns in relationships center on things that really don't exist. Although it's good to think ahead about how things might be in the future, and it's good to reflect on past experiences to inform our present actions, it is best to stay in the moment.

My girlfriend gets all worked up about concerns that things will happen "someday down the road." My response is usually, "let's think about what's happening now."

As long as the two of you can communicate with love, compassion, and understanding, the future will take care of itself.

I was in a very similar situation, but on the other end. I was the BIC TBM mormon girl, dating (and eventually living with) a nevermo, coming to terms with my actual life and how I was raised. I was already doubting and learning things for myself when we started dating, so he is not the actual reason I left, but it is very hard to go against your whole family and upbringing.

I would suggest taking a break over just breaking it off totally. To me, the fact that this all seemed to come out of the blue means that she has been struggling internally against what she wants now (and has been living) and what she was raised and conditioned to want.

It is very very difficult to overcome what you've been told is 'the only way' for 20+ years, so she will need time and patience and understanding as she works through it all. And, as everyone knows, she will need to come to the conclusion on her own or there will eventually be resentment. You can point her in the direction you went, but you can't force her to see what you saw.

And it really can go either way. My now-husband's family was worried when we got serious because his older brother had been engaged to an inactive mormon girl who decided at the last minute that he needed to convert and she wanted a temple marriage or nothing.

I would like to echo Duder's last sentence, "As long as the two of you can communicate with love, compassion, and understanding, the future will take care of itself."

If it doesn't matter to her that she's been lied to her entire life then what else won't she care about? Truth does not appear to have a place in her life.

I think she is buying into the 'forever family' bullsh*t. It is obvious she doesn't BELIEVE completely or she wouldn't be in the situation she is in. That draw of the "dream"--that you'll never lose your family, etc., is HUGE (doesn't matter about all the polygamy stuff). We were fed the line about temple marriage and forever family. There was a post I responded to last night about a guy who is now an atheist, but just had a baby son and WISHES the forever family business was true.

Mormons don't look at the reality of the situation. As I told my TBM aunt (whose husband had told me to go back to church)--IF I'm wrong, I'll take my chances. The CK doesnt' sound all that attractive to me NOW that I am willing to look at the reality of what mormonism REALLY teaches.

Most women buy into the forever family business.

It is far easier and better for you to break off the relationship now. Staying in the relationship will only bring you heartache.

Buy this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Are-You-One-Me-Avoiding/dp/0440506700/ref=sr_1_1

It is worth its weight in gold for a person in your situation.

It may be that your girlfriend is actually considering moving toward marriage with you and is exploring what that means in terms of gain and loss--as all significant steps in life bring.

My take is that she has had a bout of fear, perhaps triggered by a conversation with some family member.

I agree with Duder, because ALL couples have differences that never really go away. They are called perpetual problems, and they include money issues, parenting, neatness, promptness, religion, etc. On average 69% of the problems a couple has are of the perpetual type. The way to deal with these types of problems is to set out to really understand where the other person is coming from. That knowledge will enable the two of you to maintain positives in your relationship; it cuts off any developing contempt toward your partner for not being like you.

The spender vs. the saver is just another perpetual problem. I have seen it dealt with over and over and over again in a marriage of a close relative and done so quite effectively. When they are 80, is the wife going to question some spending of her adventurous mate, but what do you expect?

This may be a perpetual problem with your GF, but maybe it's more about moving away from her family and toward you.

So, she is living with you, in sin as people used to call it.

But she wants her children to feel guilt (all the time) for anything THEY might do.

Thus it would appear that she holds her future children to have higher standards than she sets for herself?

She is 22, but in her heart she is still a little girl with the attitudes of a little girl.

Only you can make the decisions for you, but I think this hysterical outburst and her hypocritical attitudes are a bad augur for the future.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2010 02:56PM by matt.

Or is she feeling guilty for living together? Or is it something deeper? Only you were there the morning after the fight, and only you know her and can tell. But if you feel there is a basic disagreement about the morg, that is likely big enough to pull you apart sooner or later. If so, better sooner than later.

dr5 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or is she feeling guilty for living together? Or
> is it something deeper? Only you were there the
> morning after the fight, and only you know her and
> can tell. But if you feel there is a basic
> disagreement about the morg, that is likely big
> enough to pull you apart sooner or later. If so,
> better sooner than later.

Some 'friend' might have got at her over her 'living in sin' status.

No need to end the relationship at this point... BUT... DON'T get married, and DO NOT DO NOT get her pregnant! If she tells you she's on birth control, DO NOT believe her!

I completely agree with anathema's advice. DO NOT get married. DO NOT get her pregnant. I started out dating a girl who led me to believe she was ex-mormon. After a few weeks I realized she was actually jack-mormon and really believed. She then tried to convince me to not use a condom cause her birth control was 100% effective. At this point, I couldn't even trust that she was on birth control. She was basically crazy. By the way, crazy girl sex is the best, but so not worth it. Beware the baby-trap!

Make sure you have a few more great sexual episodes before you decide to go separate ways.

Some relationships are worth working on but others are just too much work to persue. Yours is the latter.

You have had a warning shot fired at you last night - heed it and RUN while you still can.

She told you exactly what she really wants and it would be foolish to try and change her.
Hope you clearly heard what she was saying and are thanking your lucky stars that the outburst came BEFORE you married her.

If you get more serious with this girl, last night's scenario will repeat itself ad nauseum. She will try to re-convert you and your life will become a living hell.

My advise would be to react quickly!
You have become attached to her because, frankly, fucking leads to deeper feelings. And in order to cut the emotional bond you need to kick her out of your bed.

Best to start over with someone who carries less baggage.Pick someone whose problems are easier to live with for you.

You need to cut her loose. She is going to want to be a Mormon when she is a MOM if not now. Break free and find someone who will allow you to have your beliefs.... and one that will allow you to raise your children in a way that together it will make you both happy. Love must include respect for others beliefs and not involve pressure of any kind.

She was likely testing you, hoping you'd cave.

Sorry for this pain, but it would be so much worse to have to live this way as a married couple.

There's no need to feel sorry for mormons in general or her in particular. It's up to them if they leave or stay, not any of us on the outside of the cult.

Reading the 'nuggets' of truth in your post, I'd say you know what you need to do to ensure your happiness. She's not the only 'fish' in the 'sea'. You're not going to find a psychologically mature, intelligent, fun, caring, truth-respecting woman with healthy self-esteem who psychologically and emotionally clings to cultic Mormonism/the LDS fraud. It's like trying to mix oil and water - can't happen. It sounds like it's time for you to move on with your life; you're in the driver's seat.

Here's info. about cultic Mormonism and how it affects people's self-esteem: http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/

Best wishes!